partyguinness wrote: » If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land.
One eyed Jack wrote: » That wasn’t his point? His point was that some people care more about discrimination against some people than others. I’m just not sure what he expects should happen as a result of him stating the bloody obvious.
partyguinness wrote: » Ok what discriminaiton does he suffer? Saying it is "bollocks" really is not the smartest rebuttal. If McLean thinks the abuse he suffers is on par with the abuse thrown at black players or the daily discrimination suffered by black people in general society then he really is living in cloud cuckoo land. As I said he has a choice. He decides to mouth off every November about the Poppy (now I agree the Poppy BS is a load of BS). Fine that is his choice. McGolderick and black players have no choice when they are abused about the colour of the skin they were born with. McLean is not sticking up for injustices in the world. He is making a choice based on his political views. Fine. McLean is not sticking up for some society wide problem. It is his own narrow political allegiances that he is heckled about. I have sat in Premier League grounds and for example I listened to all sorts of chants against Frank Lampard for being "fat". Now should we expect Frank Lampard to start crying about the fattest abuse he suffered. No of course not. McLean might as well shout out: "The lives of Derry Republicans matter too." Abuse about your political views and abuse about the colour of your skin are nowhere near the same. Not even on the same planet. Have your views on the Poppy (which I agree with BTW) but you are living and working in England. What does he expect to achieve? All of a sudden the barely literate mobs in the stand will sit and contemplate his position and agree with him? Fantasy stuff. I cannot understand why McLean even bothers explaining himself- that is his mistake. He is dealing with football fans....generally not the smartest bunch around.
partyguinness wrote: » I don't follow Twitter but he spews out that type of nonsense and then cries like a little baby when he gets abuse over it. McLean is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He is just as moronic as the apes that abuse him from the stands- well made for each other.
Francie Barrett wrote: » This is why politics should be taken out of sport entirely. The poppy is supposed to be a personal decision, but they way it's been structured by authorities, you basically have to wear one or else you're vilified for not doing so. The same thing has happened with BLM. There must be huge pressure on players to participate on these political stunts, a failure to do so would probably cost them their livelihood because the backlash from the keyboard warriors would be immense. George Carlin is dead right, this is the road to fascism. Certain opinions are getting censored, others are promoted. People are conforming out of fear.
ThewhiteJesus wrote: » Who are you referring to as Apes ?
bucketybuck wrote: » Doesn't he get death threats and bullets in the post? I'm no expert on scales of discrimination but are death threats not pretty bad?
iebamm2580 wrote: » If you think black pl league players suffer discrimination in their daily lives you are deluded, are you suggesting McCLean change religion so or nationality to not suffer abuse as you said black players cant change skin colour. Regularly stadiums are booing him at matches that does not happen to black players based on there skin colour.
Huntergonzo wrote: » I agree completely, I've always felt sport should remain seperate from politics.
OptimusTractor wrote: » Sport particularly soccer has always been political. Some of the great footballing rivalries are born out of predominantly Right/Left divides.
partyguinness wrote: » Ok what discriminaiton does he suffer?
partyguinness wrote: » Saying it is "bollocks" really is not the smartest rebuttal.
partyguinness wrote: » McLean is not sticking up for injustices in the world. He is making a choice based on his political views. Fine. McLean is not sticking up for some society wide problem. It is his own narrow political allegiances that he is heckled about.
partyguinness wrote: » Abuse about your political views and abuse about the colour of your skin are nowhere near the same. Not even on the same planet.
partyguinness wrote: » Have your views on the Poppy (which I agree with BTW) but you are living and working in England. What does he expect to achieve? All of a sudden the barely literate mobs in the stand will sit and contemplate his position and agree with him? Fantasy stuff.
RandomViewer wrote: » Maybe we should force Protestants to wear an Easter lily , or Jews to wear a Swastika or Black people to commemorate the KKK ?
partyguinness wrote: » Perhaps if he kept his mouth shut and his views to himself it would make his life a lot easier. He cannot achieve anything by going on like this. I can't help but think that he draws it on himself. He is either incredibly dumb or incredibly naive Launching into an anti-Poppy/oppressed Derry tirade every so often when you live and work in Stoke and West Bromwich is just not clever. I know these places and they not exactly bastions of tolerance and inclusivity. Brexit voting, Daily Mail reading bigoted White Trash would be a very generous generalisation. These areas recorded some of the highest ‘Vote Leave’ votes. It is not dissimilar to living and working in Alabama or Mississippi and publicly mouthing off against guns or NASCAR or the Confederate flag. You are drawing a world of grief on yourself. And for what exactly?
[Deleted User] wrote: » And the abuse has only become more pronounced with the rise of jingoistic poppy-shaming rhetoric. The act of publicly ridiculing a professional footballer for not sporting a flower on his lapel is ridiculous. Britain no longer has an empire despite what the tabloids print, the days of colonial subjugation are over.
partyguinness wrote: » Go back and read my post very carefully as you have muddled up two distinct statements. That is not what I said but how the hell do you know whether or not black players suffer discrimination in their daily life? Discrimination comes in all forms and sizes both conscious and unconscious.
Hamsterchops wrote: » McClean leaves himself open to attack, he's deliberately said and done things that paint a big red target on himself... The poppy thing is the obvious red flag, where out of all his team mates, the opposing team, and the fans he decides not to wear a poppy in England on poppy day! OK, so I think the whole poppy day (compulsory wearing of) has gone far too far, specially on TV, but by not obeying the same custom as everybody else on the teams & the stadium crowd, he does stand out as not being part of the commemoration, hence it irks people. His attitude is the problem.
c.p.w.g.w wrote: » He should be allowed wear the Lilly come Easter, if the poppy is allowed for the brits
Aegir wrote: » I doubt you decided to switch from playing for Northern Ireland to the Republic and then took to twitter to mock your former team either.
Deleted User wrote: » .....its a valid comparison?
Huntergonzo wrote: » Or just leave all personal political symbols in the changing rooms and allow people to enjoy football.
NIMAN wrote: » Maybe the EPL (and ALL the British media too) need to adopt this stance?
iebamm2580 wrote: » If you actually watch soccer you can hear large sections of stadiums booing him,
Hamsterchops wrote: » Comparing the poppy to the Swastika! Are you crackers?
Deleted User wrote: » Hold on, you said he suffers abuse, initially, and asked if it was based on creed. The answer is yes he does and it is based on creed. Lets not start changing goalposts here. Replying to posts takes time and effort. If your post is a load of bollocks, people generally won't take that time and make that effort to refute it, generally because you cannot reason with someone who hasn't used reasoned themselves into that position. Here's a quick rebuttal to your points from the original post: Being white, or male, or English speaking or any combination of the three does not preclude somebody from suffering abuse. The inference that it does is laughable. The whole concept of 'privilege' is ridiculous. Similarly, the point about him shutting up is victim blaming of the highest degree. It is on a par with saying girls shouldn't wear short skirts if they don't want to be assaulted, imo. It isn't a competition. Abuse is abuse, just because one person has it worse doesn't mean you should put up with it. Should all the black premier league players put up or shut up because of the holocaust? No, of course not, because its a ridiculous standpoint. Similarly, JMC shouldn't have to deal with all that crap because of monkey chants and bananas being thrown onto the pitch. What? There is an entire community North of the border for whom sectarian abuse is indeed a society wide problem, on both sides of the divide. To suggest otherwise is myopic. You have heard of the troubles, yeah? Again, not a competition. I disagree that they are nowhere near the same (do you want him to convert religion or something, as if that will solve all his problems?) but even if they were the same, one doesn't negate the other. So, because he's in England he should just STFU and suffer in silence, supporting the state-sponsored murder of his community members? Should we do the same with countries that have (worse) racism problems, like say Russia or Spain? Should the barely literate mobs in those countries remain unchallenged or should we try to eradicate it. If somebody said the above, and replaced "the poppy" with "racial equality" there'd be uproar (and rightly so) from all corners. There is a strong implication from your points that, because he is white, its not as bad. That is racist in and of itself.
Feisar wrote: » I work in the UK a lot and no one has ever said anything about me not wearing a poppy., it's really media driven.
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