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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

I am not interested in your rabbit holes, there was only one main reason for complaints ref the shinners funeral, that being of ignoring social distancing guidelines, our own politicians were calling for those who attended the funeral to stay away from the Dail for 2 weeks for Christ sake, ignore it if you want.

They soon wound their necks in when it was pointed out about Billy Kelleher, Mariead McGuinness both ignoring the quarantine restrictions both were supposed to observe, and also mourners at Garda Horkans funeral also ignoring social distancing guidelines.

You would like to think there was only one main reason, but there have been many reasons given across the national media and social media since it happened. I am entitled to my opinion that there were other reasons to be disgusted by the fake funeral, and that there were significant differences between the two.

At the end of the day, because it was all a fake, it was particularly disgusting and the politicising of a funeral by Sinn Fein all the more repugnant.

On Mairead McGuinness, that was a complete lie. She wasn't at the Convention Centre. Amazing that you were taken in by the spin on that one.

https://www.thejournal.ie/billy-kelleher-coronavirus-5142030-Jul2020/

Billy Kelleher apologised as soon as it was raised. Sinn Fein should have learned the lesson from that. Get out ahead of the story and apologise.

This will continue to run and run, especially when the Belfast City Council investigation runs its course. Can see compensation claims ahead.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, there is more reliable evidence, from the PSNI, that the IRA leadership is still in place and controlling Sinn Fein, and you refuse to accept that.

But that isn't an accurate statement. What was said:

In a 2015 report for the UK government, the PSNI and MI5 concluded IRA members believed the army council “oversees” both the IRA and Sinn Féin with an “overarching strategy”, based on current intelligence, historical materials and analysis. The PSNI has said recently that the assessment remains true. “We judge this strategy has a wholly political focus,” the 2015 report said. IRA members “have been directed to actively support Sinn Féin within the community including activity like electioneering and leafleting”.

https://www.ft.com/content/058e757a-54c3-11ea-90ad-25e377c0ee1f

Would you prefer for them to get back to shooting and bombing rather than electioneering and leafleting?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

You would like to think there was only one main reason, but there have been many reasons given across the national media and social media since it happened. I am entitled to my opinion that there were other reasons to be disgusted by the fake funeral, and that there were significant differences between the two.

At the end of the day, because it was all a fake, it was particularly disgusting and the politicising of a funeral by Sinn Fein all the more repugnant.

On Mairead McGuinness, that was a complete lie. She wasn't at the Convention Centre. Amazing that you were taken in by the spin on that one.

I didn't mention the convention center, so I'll just leave this here.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1279830021742505988?s=19

https://www.thejournal.ie/billy-kelleher-coronavirus-5142030-Jul2020/

Billy Kelleher apologised as soon as it was raised. Sinn Fein should have learned the lesson from that. Get out ahead of the story and apologise.

This will continue to run and run, especially when the Belfast City Council investigation runs its course. Can see compensation claims ahead.

The virus doesn't care for apologies either blanch, and as for the "get ahead of the story" I have a more pertinent cliché for you.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The Brits told us to kill you, but we were nice enough to say no, so be nice to us.

That is your proof?

How would Charlie be nice to the UVF? Why would they even want him to be? MI5 clearly pissed them off and they probably wanted the evidence of collusion in a safe place.

The dogs in the street knew that the British strategy was to drag the Republic into their dirty war because they were pissed off with the Provos escaping over the border to safety. Thatcher wanted a 15 mile zone on either side of the Border that the UK could enter with reciprocal arrangements if the ROI wanted to enter NI.

That was never going to be allowed by the Irish Government.

Adam9213

jm08 wrote: »

But that isn't an accurate statement. What was said:

https://www.ft.com/content/058e757a-54c3-11ea-90ad-25e377c0ee1f

Would you prefer for them to get back to shooting and bombing rather than electioneering and leafleting?

I don't know what he's talking about tbh he has such hate for SF he'll believe whatever suits the agenda.

Truthvader

Adam9213 wrote: »

What do you mean by gone away? If you mean they handed up their weapons and are no longer active as a guerrilla army anymore then yes beyond doubt they have gone away, but if you mean that the people who were in the IRA are no longer trying to further Irish unity politically then no they haven't "gone away"

No I mean still operating their little protection rackets and criminal enterprises and local intimidation. Read back a bit. Your pal Francie was trying to sell us all the Mary Lou nonsense about Slab and the boys and telling us all there was no Sinn Fein IRA crime and everything was all normal but he lost the run of himself then and in a different context let it slip that he knew several places involved in the diesel game so I challenged him to report all this crime he knew about. Wisely he decided it might be better to keep the head down and say nothing.

IRA were never more than a self interested criminal gang pursuing power using all this Fenian crap as a cover. They have that now so no need for the United Ireland nonsense now. Gerry happy on his trampoline in one of his houses

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, there is more reliable evidence, from the PSNI, that the IRA leadership is still in place and controlling Sinn Fein, and you refuse to accept that.

Where is this evidence issued by the psni?

Adam9213

Truthvader wrote: »

No I mean still operating their little protection rackets and criminal enterprises and local intimidation. Read back a bit. Your pal Francie was trying to sell us all the Mary Lou nonsense about Slab and the boys and telling us all there was no Sinn Fein IRA crime and everything was all normal but he lost the run of himself then and in a different context let it slip that he knew several places involved in the diesel game so I challenged him to report all this crime he knew about. Wisely he decided it might be better to keep the head down and say nothing.

IRA were never more than a self interested criminal gang pursuing power using all this Fenian crap as a cover. They have that now so no need for the United Ireland nonsense now. Gerry happy on his trampoline in one of his houses

Your British army counterparts don't seem to agree with you that the IRA were little more than a "self interested criminal gang"

An internal British Army document written by General Sir Michael David Jackson and two other senior officers was released in 2007 under the Freedom of Information Act. It examined the British Army's 37 year of deployment in Northern Ireland, and described the IRA as "a professional, dedicated, highly skilled and resilient force", while loyalist paramilitaries and other republican groups were described as "little more than a collection of gangsters".

Adam9213

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where is this evidence issued by the psni?

Exactly, I'm looking forward to seeing the "hardcore evidence" he keeps talking about anytime anyone else brings something up.

Truthvader

Adam9213 wrote: »

Do you just ignore the posts you have no answer to?

Do you believe that my post about the MRF a top secret British army unit specifically created to fight the IRA consisting of about 40 members that included members of soldiers from special forces like the SAS who were only allowed use IRA and loyalist weapons were coincidentally acting as individuals and not on behalf of the British state?

Not sure how this is answer to or connected anything. Maybe you just got excited.

Anyway you point to a top secret (but not to you at any rate) British Army Unit and then waffle on a bit to ask whether I believe they were acting on behalf of the British State. Well the British Army usually do act on behalf of the British State so not sure what the point is.

Adam9213

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The uvf and uda also operated on behalf of british state,given 85% of their intel come from the uk government sources??

The glennane gang (combined force of security and paramilitary)killed 151 people,150 of which had no connection to republican activity......they statistically likely should have killed more republicans.....

Its almost as if the british wanted to wipe out the nationlist population,in 2 pronged effort,using paramilitarie to kill civilans and sec forces to kill militants

and only people to stand for civilans,was the provos,god bless our patriot dead

It's a lot harder to understand the psychological warfare aspect of the conflict so you wouldn't understand the effect those killings would have but they greatly hurt the IRA more than even killing their members could.

One example is it would be an attempt to draw the IRA away from its war against the state and into a sectarian conflict, if that happened which it did to an extent is it would weaken IRA support greatly making the IRA more vulnerable it would also put pressure on people who supported the IRA in those areas to stop supporting the campaign due to the effect it was having on the ordinary Catholic.

There are so many reasons but that's just a couple of examples.

Also some of the people killed may not have been members but they were probably assisting the IRA in some kind of way which is why they were targeted, also some of them were members of IRA members families which would have been a deterrent to people who wanted to join.

timthumbni

Very different 12th this year in Norn Iron. I know this is the 13th but as Sunday would be a no no for parades anyway then today should have been when the main 12th celebrations would take place.

Most towns and villages had one or 2 of their local bands parade locally but very low key and most appear to have socially distanced as per the advice and request from the OO and unionist leaders.

On the news one of the OO spokesmen said something along the lines of “for our wee country’s health, we cancelled the twelfth”

He was a poet and he didn’t know it.

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The uvf and uda also operated on behalf of british state,given 85% of their intel come from the uk government sources??

The glennane gang (combined force of security and paramilitary)killed 151 people,150 of which had no connection to republican activity......they statistically likely should have killed more republicans.....

Its almost as if the british wanted to wipe out the nationlist population,in 2 pronged effort,using paramilitarie to kill civilans and sec forces to kill militants

and only people to stand for civilans,was the provos,god bless our patriot dead

The same provos slaughtered a good few civilians as well, many of them Catholics

[Deleted User]

Edgware wrote: »

The same provos slaughtered a good few civilians as well, many of them Catholics

Also held defended communities across the north from being overrun,removed police presence and broke up the intel gathering operartions targeting catholics by the ruc

They done piles wrong,noone disputes this,but only for them,catholics had noone to stand up for em,in face of attacks,intimidation and helped provide safety for many elderly people living in isolated areas,who otherwise would been burnt out/shot

Adam9213

Edgware wrote: »

The same provos slaughtered a good few civilians as well, many of them Catholics

True, according to CAIN 29% of their victims were civilians.

Adam9213

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also held defended communities across the north from being overrun,removed police presence and broke up the intel gathering operartions targeting catholics by the ruc

They done piles wrong,noone disputes this,but only for them,catholics had noone to stand up for em,in face of attacks,intimidation and helped provide safety for many elderly people living in isolated areas,who otherwise would been burnt out/shot

The battle of St Matthews one of the most popular ones because it was when the PIRA had only started arming up and before there was a guerilla war, it was their first major action.

As the situation worsened, Catholic residents feared that the gathering crowds of loyalists would attempt to invade the Short Strand and burn them from their homes. Local IRA members retrieved weapons from arms dumps. A young resident, Jim Gibney, recalled: "I saw neighbours, people I knew, coming down the street carrying rifles. I was just dumbstruck by this experience. I'd never seen such a thing before".

British soldiers eventually arrived in armoured vehicles and cordoned off the roads around the Short Strand, which denied the IRA "any hope of reinforcement".
A small group of IRA members and members of the Citizens' Defence Committee took up positions in the church grounds and in adjoining streets. The IRA members were armed with M1 carbines.

This action brought a great deal of support for armed conflict on one hand you had the peaceful SDLP who after the shooting began, Stormont MP Paddy Kennedy went with Short Strand residents to the local RUC base and demanded protection for their homes which never came, and on the other hand you had the IRA who risked their lives some of whom were killed trying to protect the local people, ask the families who were shaking and scared in their homes do they think the IRA men who died were terrorists I doubt they'll say they were.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_St_Matthew's

Truthvader

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The uvf and uda also operated on behalf of british state,given 85% of their intel come from the uk government sources??

The glennane gang (combined force of security and paramilitary)killed 151 people,150 of which had no connection to republican activity......they statistically likely should have killed more republicans.....

Its almost as if the british wanted to wipe out the nationlist population,in 2 pronged effort,using paramilitarie to kill civilans and sec forces to kill militants

and only people to stand for civilans,was the provos,god bless our patriot dead

Oh deary me. The answer to criminal thuggery is not more criminal thuggery. The provos who you laughably describe as patriots soent a deal of their time killing and maiming their own people. Murdering people is not acceptable

Truthvader

timthumbni wrote: »

Very different 12th this year in Norn Iron. I know this is the 13th but as Sunday would be a no no for parades anyway then today should have been when the main 12th celebrations would take place.

Most towns and villages had one or 2 of their local bands parade locally but very low key and most appear to have socially distanced as per the advice and request from the OO and unionist leaders.

On the news one of the OO spokesmen said something along the lines of “for our wee country’s health, we cancelled the twelfth”

He was a poet and he didn’t know it.

Is there any hope they will grow up?

Truthvader

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also held defended communities across the north from being overrun,removed police presence and broke up the intel gathering operartions targeting catholics by the ruc

They done piles wrong,noone disputes this,but only for them,catholics had noone to stand up for em,in face of attacks,intimidation and helped provide safety for many elderly people living in isolated areas,who otherwise would been burnt out/shot

Actually the British Army wete sent over to protect catholiv areas. Didn't suit Gerry Adams and the lads who had failed to protect anyone so they set about poisoning the effort. Abley assisted by idiots in the Parachute regiment

celt262

Truthvader wrote: »

Is there any hope they will grow up?

At least they are acting responsibly for once.

RandomViewer

Deleted User wrote: »

And what would yous propose,to do when entire streets of catholics being burnt out and noone to defend them??

Seriously come on big man....you wouldnt bother to defend your home or community and sit on side of road looking for a handout after being burnt out and several of your neighbours killed,would you.......its our country,nationlists shouldnt need put up with this

Be a cold day in hell before i weep over killing likes of billy wright or georgy seawright.....but ya....keep turning other cheek,maybe they mightnt shoot your family members in the face,when their gang calls to your house and leave yous not needing a closed coffin

He's an ex guard , it's how they're trained to think.

Truthvader

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And what would yous propose,to do when entire streets of catholics being burnt out and noone to defend them??

Seriously come on big man....you wouldnt bother to defend your home or community and sit on side of road looking for a handout after being burnt out and several of your neighbours killed,would you.......its our country,nationlists shouldnt need put up with this

Be a cold day in hell before i weep over killing likes of billy wright or georgy seawright.....but ya....keep turning other cheek,maybe they mightnt shoot your family members in the face,when their gang calls to your house and leave yous not needing a closed coffin

Well that is total bollocks. Whatever the provos did they did not protect catholic areas in 1969. I Ran Away. As above the British army actually protected catholic areas in 1969

[Deleted User]

Truthvader wrote: »

Well that is total bollocks

What part is??......they had noone else to stand up.for them

Whatever the provos did they did not protect catholic areas in 1969. I Ran Away. As above the British army actually protected catholic areas in 1969

The provos didnt exist in 1969.

Actually remind me,how.many streets of cathoics were burnt out when the provos got up.and running???

They done piles and piles wrong,but when noone else there,they stepped up and defended their communities and its a shame,the state has never given em,the credit they deserve

RandomViewer

Truthvader wrote: »

Well that is total bollocks. Whatever the provos did they did not protect catholic areas in 1969. I Ran Away. As above the British army actually protected catholic areas in 1969

That's officials, PIRA didn't exist in 1969

timthumbni

Truthvader wrote: »

Is there any hope they will grow up?

Who? The OO?

Truthvader

timthumbni wrote: »

Who? The OO?

The marchy marchy goons trying to annoy their neighbours

RandomViewer

timthumbni wrote: »

Who? The OO?

Funny that Tommy Gorman wasn't reporting from the 11th night bonfires, RTE being impartial and all that

timthumbni

RandomViewer wrote: »

Funny that Tommy Gorman wasn't reporting from the 11th night bonfires, RTE being impartial and all that

Sorry, I have no idea who Tommy Gorman is.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Well that is total bollocks. Whatever the provos did they did not protect catholic areas in 1969. I Ran Away. As above the British army actually protected catholic areas in 1969

I have been around Boards for a while and barring one or two posters I have never come across a more woefully or is it willfully biased interpreter of the the facts of history.
The BA was sent in by a Labour government to protect Catholic areas but within months had managed to turn that Catholic community against them as they began to shore up the sectarian state rather than take it on. That was the tagedy and the crime...had they taken on the Orange sectarian state as they were eventually forced to do, none of it would have happened.

Read the factual history...here's the timeline of 1969...hardly a mention, much less an action by the IRA. How many bombs by loyalists and killings of Catholics, not to mention beatings can you count?
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch69.htm

Adam9213

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been around Boards for a while and barring one or two posters I have never come across a more woefully or is it willfully biased interpreter of the the facts of history.
The BA was sent in by a Labour government to protect Catholic areas but within months had managed to turn that Catholic community against them as they began to shore up the sectarian state rather than take it on. That was the tagedy and the crime...had they taken on the Orange sectarian state as they were eventually forced to do, none of it would have happened.

Read the factual history...here's the timeline of 1969...hardly a mention, much less an action by the IRA. How many bombs by loyalists and killings of Catholics, not to mention beatings can you count?
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch69.htm

The battle of St Matthews one of the most popular ones because it was when the PIRA had even started attacking tand before there was a guerilla war, it was their first major action.

As the situation worsened, Catholic residents feared that the gathering crowds of loyalists would attempt to invade the Short Strand and burn them from their homes. Local IRA members retrieved weapons from arms dumps. A young resident, Jim Gibney, recalled: "I saw neighbours, people I knew, coming down the street carrying rifles. I was just dumbstruck by this experience. I'd never seen such a thing before".

British soldiers eventually arrived in armoured vehicles and cordoned off the roads around the Short Strand, which denied the IRA "any hope of reinforcement".
A small group of IRA members and members of the Citizens' Defence Committee took up positions in the church grounds and in adjoining streets. The IRA members were armed with M1 carbines successfully preventing the incursion of loyalist mobs and militants.

This action brought a great deal of support for armed conflict on one hand you had the peaceful SDLP who after the shooting began, Stormont MP Paddy Kennedy went with Short Strand residents to the local RUC base cried and demanded protection for their homes which never came, and on the other hand you had the IRA who risked their lives some of whom were killed trying to protect the local people, ask the families who were shaking and scared in their homes do they think the IRA men who died were terrorists I doubt they'll say they were.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_St_Matthew%27s