Bowie wrote: » I see Haughey got a state one, gun running. Michael Collins, terrorism. DeValera fraud, terrorism... Do you think having Flanagan near the flag is a farce? I do. Each to his own. Flag belongs to the country.
blanch152 wrote: » Are you suggesting that Bobby Storey should have had a State funeral? Because other than that, I don't understand the point.
blanch152 wrote: » Your two posts contradict each other, particularly the points in bold. I would guess that if you are reading as much as you say, all of your purchases were made in Parnell Square.
Adam9213 wrote: » Are you going to make a point or is that it?
McMurphy wrote: » Which has exactly the square root of fcuk all to do with what I asked. As has been pointed out repeatedly now on this and various other thread's, it doesn't matter one iota who was inside the coffin, or what politcal persuasion the mourners in attendance had. The virus doesn't care. The virus only wants fresh human hosts so it can multiply itself and spread to other human hosts. In both Bobby Storey's funeral, and that of Garda Horkans funeral we seen hundreds if not thousands break the health guidelines for social distancing put in place to try and curtail it transferring between hosts and being transferred to new hosts in different parts of the country. When you have a coherent answer as to why one funeral breaking the protocols was acceptable and the other was not, I'll be here all ears. Incidentally I'm of the opinion both sets of mourners were wrong. The usual "Sinn Fein IRA" nonsense with a sprinkle of "Garda killed in action state funeral" won't cut the mustard randy, as I already stated the virus wouldn't give a sh1t.
blanch152 wrote: » Was it confusing? You made a statement that "most loyalist killings were orchestrated by the British state", for which there is no evidence (there is evidence in some cases for involvement by members of the British security forces, but no evidence for the blanket statement you made) yet you claim repeatedly to be knowledgeable and educated on the IRA terrorist campaign. On a number of occasions, there have been disparaging references to others lack of education and I am only pointing out a serious gap in your knowledge of the issue. At the very least, you have a skewed view of the issue which makes it difficult to accept any of the points you raise.
Adam9213 wrote: » The evidence is overwhelming, I get annoyed when people like you deny collusion because I know for a fact if you done all the research you would not deny it whatsoever, I can't be bothered trying to educate someone who can't be bothered to read up on their own history but here's a copy and paste from a thread I made yesterday, these quotes are coming from one of the top MI5/MI6 officers at the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland who has exposed numerous scandals like the Kincora boys many of the allegations he made in the 70s (which were not made public until years later) have turned out to be true his word is extremely credible, he's speaking hear about the Dublin Monaghan bombings. At the time of the bombings, Colin Wallace was a British Intelligence Corps officer and a psychological warfare specialist at the British Army's Northern Ireland headquarters. Since his resignation in 1975, he has exposed scandals involving the security forces, including state collusion with loyalists. He gave evidence to the Barron Inquiry. In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes: There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], most of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] members have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the PIRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other and, at the same time prevent any future political initiative such as Sunningdale. In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added: I believe much of the violence generated during the latter part of last year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA! This is just something from a previous thread I made yesterday I could go on and on and on until you were convinced but if you don't know by now you clearly couldn't be bothered to learn anyway.
blanch152 wrote: » If all of that is true, and I am not bothered to challenge it for the moment, it only backs up my statement that there is evidence of individual members of the British security forces involvement. However, it does nothing to back up your statement that "most loyalist killings were orchestrated by the British state". You have no evidence of British government approval or involvement or even knowledge in advance of actions by individuals.
Adam9213 wrote: » Are you being serious? Individuals? Did you even read it all the claims are that the loyalist gangs were working on behalf of British intelligence, that they are working on the orders of British intelligence.
blanch152 wrote: » Now, we are getting somewhere, you are referring to "claims", rather than making statements of historical fact. The facts are, there is no proof and no evidence of British government approval, advance knowledge or involvement generally in loyalist killings rendering your statement that "most loyalist killings were orchestrated by the British state" untrue. There are claims from nationalist sources of involvement in a minority of such loyalist actions by individuals in the British security services, and potentially senior people within organisations, but there is little hard evidence of the latter, and none to suggest that where it took place, it was anything other than rogue elements acting without the government's knowledge and approval. In the same way, there were Gardai who helped supply information and intelligence to the IRA, but that isn't taken by anyone to mean that the IRA terrorist activities were orchestrated by the Irish State.
Loyalists told Charles Haughey MI5 ‘asked us to execute you’ UVF wrote to taoiseach saying it refused request from British intelligence officer
jm08 wrote: » So, can you explain this then.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Floyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804
Adam9213 wrote: » You seem so ignorant I don't think you'll ever believe it as you don't want to believe it, anyway read my last post about the MRF it might help you come around as there is actually solid evidence of that one as you won't believe anything without solo evidence no matter how obvious it is.
blanch152 wrote: » Another claim? where's the proof, the smoking gun? Not there, not anywhere. Certainly not on the basis of your original statement.
“In 1985 we were approached by a MI5 officer attached to the NIO (Northern Ireland Office) and based in Lisburn, Alex Jones was his supposed name,” the UVF said. “He asked us to execute you.” The previously secret letter, on UVF headed paper, showed the loyalists told Mr Haughey that the MI5 operative gave details of his cars, photographs of his home, his island, Inishvickillane, and his yacht, Celtic Mist. “We refused to do it, we were asked would we accept responsibility if you were killed we refused,” the UVF said in the letter. Signed in block capitals “Capt W Johnston”, the name used by the UVF in all its formal statements, it closed with the line: “We have no love for you but we are not going to carry out work for the Dirty Tricks Department of the British.”
blanch152 wrote: » Not in the least ignorant, lived through the 1970s and 1980s, have read an awful lot as well, clear in my own mind that the vast vast majority of the blame for the conflict falls on the IRA, Sinn Fein and the men like Bobby Storey who still run them.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I do not turn a blind eye to any criminal activity. And it wasn't the point, the point you are desperately trying to deflect for is that, if I know and can see this going on why are the security forces ignoring it. It is easier for you and others to portray the community as silent in complicity.
jm08 wrote: » The letter from the UVF to Haughey is in the State papers. If you bothered to read the link you would know that.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804
Truthvader wrote: » Right so no complaint made then. Don't blame you to be honest but lets stop pretending Gerry Adams and his merry men have gone away
The Chief Constable of the PSNI has asked for a senior police officer from outside Northern Ireland to lead the investigation into alleged breaches of Covid-19 restrictions at the funeral of veteran republican Bobby Storey last week.
blanch152 wrote: » I think there are a number of significant differences that have become clearer over time. (1) The Horkan funeral was an official State funeral giving it a different status.
(2) Whatever about locals, Gardai paid their respects from a distance, in Garda stations around the country, as did most of the politicians. We didn't have people travelling from Cork for the Horkan funeral etc.
(3) Some sort of unofficial white-shirted militia-type group, looking and acting an awful lot like a US white supremacist group, marshalled the Storey funeral without any legal authority.
(4) The Horkan funeral was a real funeral, the Storey funeral included a fake procession to a fake burial, complete with fake eulogies, for politically staged reasons, before a real cremation elsewhere.
(5) The Storey funeral, a funeral of an ordinary criminal thug, was given precedence over the funerals of ordinary decent people in Belfast.
It wasn't just about the protocols, there were a whole heap of other reasons to be concerned about the Storey funeral, not least what he was, and not to mention the stupid silly selfies by Michelle.
Adam9213 wrote: » That's how they usually carried out proxy killings they gave their agents all the information needed and asked them to kill them, that way there's no evidence that the British state commited the killings apart from the word of loyalists which dozens have claimed the killings they committed were on behalf of British intelligence but for whatever reason they refused to kill Haughey.
blanch152 wrote: » (2) Whatever about locals, Gardai paid their respects from a distance, in Garda stations around the country, as did most of the politicians. We didn't have people travelling from Cork for the Horkan funeral etc.
blanch152 wrote: » The Brits told us to kill you, but we were nice enough to say no, so be nice to us. That is your proof?
McMurphy wrote: » Ok, let's dig into this and assume you're not on a piss take. Considering there's an outside police force investigation taking place looking specifically at: I'll drill down into your response. And the virus will care about that The virus must have evolved now to know who is observing the social distancing guidelines, whether or not they're locals or Gardai personell and how far they will be travelling to spread it? The virus doesn't care if you're wearing white shirts or your birthday suit blanch. Wise up. The virus can be contacted and spread between hosts anywhere and any place, be it at a "real funeral" or a pretend one. Again wise up. The virus will multiply and spread itself just as easily in a maximum security state penitentiary full of hardened criminals, as quickly as it would among a care home for retired clowns if people aren't observing social distancing guidelines. I repeat back to this bit so. You are complaining because it was a Sinn Fein funeral and that's all blanch, at least have the decency to be honest with yourself, as that's the only person you are fooling.
Adam9213 wrote: » Do you not believe anything without solid evidence? If they were using loyalist agents as proxies to carry out assassinations how do you expect these things to be "proved"? Many things like all the high ranking loyalists having been British agents and the countless claims from the highest ranking of loyalists that they committed their murders on behalf of British intelligence along with some of the highest ranking intelligence officers during the troubles having claimed that loyalist paramilitaries were little more than pseudo gangs operating on behalf of British intelligence among many other things doesn't even make you a little bit suspicious?
blanch152 wrote: » No, you are wrong, there are many reasons to complain about the Storey funeral, not all are related to the virus. The private militia in white shirts is certainly one (don't give me the usual tripe about scouts, GAA clubs, they all have legitimate uniforms). There is a difference between a State funeral and an ordinary person's funeral, as anyone who recognises the legitimacy of the State would agree. There is quite a difference between the dignity being shown by the Orange Order and the unionist community in how they are celebrating the 12th and the fake pageantry of the Storey funeral (and that is really surprising me how well they are behaving).https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0713/1153008-12th-july-marches/ The leadership being shown by Arlene Foster also shows up Sinn Fein in a bad light. ""I know people are frustrated when they saw the scenes in west Belfast Tuesday-week ago and say if that happened there, why can't I do it." She was referring to the large-scale republican gathering last month for the funeral of IRA veteran Bobby Storey. Ms Foster said people should not fall below the standard requirement of the community just because others do so."https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0712/1152773-twelfth-bonfires-orange-order/ It is interesting that this is still hitting the news. Sinn Fein should have got out early with a real apology, their arrogance on this will continue to cause them problems.
blanch152 wrote: » Well, there is more reliable evidence, from the PSNI, that the IRA leadership is still in place and controlling Sinn Fein, and you refuse to accept that.
