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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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liamog

obi604 wrote: »

So if anyone gets to one of these chargers and see a leaf charging and need CCS - they may as well do a u turn to another charger

Best bet is to open the eCars app, it will tell you how long the person has been charging for. There is a 45 minute limit, so it's reasonable to expect that someone will finish around then. If they are showing as charging for 35 minutes then I'd hang around and wait.

If it's a Tesla then it could be Elm

who's willing to pay €5 to charge for longer, if he doesn't spot you, you could be a while

slave1

What about someone on the new 150s on CCS and an Outlander rocks up, will the CCS still be limited to 75

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

What about someone on the new 150s on CCS and an Outlander rocks up, will the CCS still be limited to 75

We're still waiting on confirmation, but probably. This model appears to be 2 75kW modules operating in tandem to provide 150kW.

Rusky rusky

I think the 150kW charges are same as ones shown in the Bjorns video below. Starts at ab 5.15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-4IqxsWHI

liamog

I like the way that operator has put a sticker on it to show the load splitting, it's better to be clear than to leave it to people guessing.

unkel

In fairness it looks like worse case scenario is one car CCS max 75kW and other car CHAdeMO max 50kW. Both fairly slow but at least that is 2 cars charging at the same time. Not just one like in the old chargers. Not great though if you have a modern EV that can charge a lot faster than 75kW, like a 2012 Tesla

or an e-tron or something

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

In fairness.......Not great though if you have a modern EV

Let's call a spade a spade here - it's almost 2021.
It's terrible

.

Why add an obsolete Chademo connector? There was already a Chademo at this location, this new unit should have been 2 CCS connectors & placed so as to allow 3 or 4 cars to access the chargers.

As it is now, 2 CCS cars can't charge simultaneously on this new unit at 75kW.
In fact, 2 CCS cars can't charge simultaneously, on the new unit, at all!

What's almost worse is if a Leaf or Outlander is in the left space at the new "dual" unit, an Ioniq or Model 3 or many other nearside rear ported cars won't be able to access the CCS, so it's barely an improvement in my opinion.

Is it that hard for ESB to see an Ionity site or Google how they do it in other countries?
Really?

Approaching 2021, a brand new motorway "hub", with just 2 CCS connectors, which could be inaccessible if a Chademo car is charging.

:rolleyes:.

unkel

Kramer wrote: »

Is it that hard for ESB to see an Ionity site or Google how they do it in other countries? Really?

Yeah this baffles me too. Perhaps an autocratic corporate culture where a very old, traditional man at the top just dictates how things are done and where ideas and suggestions from more junior staff are suppressed?

digiman

Gave the high powered charger a go in Kilcullen earlier, arrived with 148km range left in a Model 3 performance and it quickly got up to 135kW which was adding 883km/hr. Took 41.6kWh in 26:12, looking forward to seeing more of these around the country.

There was a leaf using the CCS when I arrived on the high power charger but he left a couple of mins after I arrived so didn’t wait long. Was also a Tesla Model 3 on the Fast charger who was there an hour, would have been an expensive enough charger for that driver I suppose while I got mine for free!

unkel

digiman wrote: »

There was a leaf using the CCS

You sure about that?

digiman

unkel wrote: »

You sure about that?

Hmm, maybe it was an i3 then now that I think of it. Might have to check sentry!

JPA

unkel wrote: »

In fairness it looks like worse case scenario is one car CCS max 75kW and other car CHAdeMO max 50kW. Both fairly slow but at least that is 2 cars charging at the same time. Not just one like in the old chargers. Not great though if you have a modern EV that can charge a lot faster than 75kW, like a 2012 Tesla or an e-tron or something

A 62kWh leaf can get the 75kW.

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade here - it's almost 2021.
It's terrible .

Why add an obsolete Chademo connector? There was already a Chademo at this location, this new unit should have been 2 CCS connectors & placed so as to allow 3 or 4 cars to access the chargers.

I think CHAdeMO cars are still the majority on the road, so I don't see the need to eradicate them completely, but I do think eCars should of had a bit more forward vision and specified 2 CCS + 1 CHAdeMO

Imagine how annoyed you'll make an e-Tron driver, when an Outlander connects to the CHAdeMO forcing his charge time to double.

Round Cable

Stopped to charge the eSoul at the Galway plaza HPC today on the way back to Dublin. Arrived with 35% of battery remaining. Peak speed was 54kW, which throttled to 44kW at 60%. I was expecting a lot better.

markpb

unkel wrote: »

Yeah this baffles me too. Perhaps an autocratic corporate culture where a very old, traditional man at the top just dictates how things are done and where ideas and suggestions from more junior staff are suppressed?

I suspect it's more to do with ESB being a semi-state so there is more political pressure/awareness. Imagine the complaints (real or otherwise) if ESB was spending the governments money and excluding the poor Leaf owners

Round Cable

markpb wrote: »

I suspect it's more to do with ESB being a semi-state so there is more political pressure/awareness. Imagine the complaints (real or otherwise) if ESB was spending the governments money and excluding the poor Leaf owners

That's the thing, they could have specified 2 CCS and 1 ChaDeMo cables, and they wouldn't have excluded anyone. It seems like a bizarre decision to configure the HPC this way.

slave1

Round Cable wrote: »

Stopped to charge the eSoul at the Galway plaza HPC today on the way back to Dublin. Arrived with 35% of battery remaining. Peak speed was 54kW, which throttled to 44kW at 60%. I was expecting a lot better.

But was the speed dictated by the car or charger?

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

I think CHAdeMO cars are still the majority on the road, so I don't see the need to eradicate them completely

Not asking to eradicate them but there was already a 50kW Chademo capable charger here, the new high power unit didn't need to be hamstrung with just one CCS connector.

CCS

Audi Audi e-tron 55
Audi Audi e-tron 50
BMW i3
Honda E
Hyundai Ioniq Electric
Hyundai Kona Electric
Jaguar Land Rover Jaguar I-Pace
Kia Soul EV
Kia e-Niro
Mercedes-Benz EQC
Mini Cooper SE (EV)
Opel Zafira-e Life
Polestar 2
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model 3
Volkswagen e-Golf
Volkswagen ID.3
Peugeot e208
SEAT el-Born
Renault........

Many, many more I can't even think of & almost everything upcoming will be CCS.

Chademo

Nissan Leaf

No Chademo car is capable of 150kW, or even 75kW really. The 62kWh Leaf doesn't reach 75kW outside of some bespoke charger in Japan apparently.
Also, how many 62kWh Leafs have sold here? I've not seen one yet & I notice most EVs as I travel around. CCS will dominate going forward.

I guess the one saving grace is it should be easy & relatively inexpensive to reconfigure the new unit to 2x CCS.

Kramer

slave1 wrote: »

But was the speed dictated by the car or charger?

The charging speed is always dictated by the car, unless the charger is maxed out, in which case it should run at max output.

unkel

JPA wrote: »

A 62kWh leaf can get the 75kW.

On one of these new ESB fast chargers we are talking about? Are you sure about that? Can anyone post a picture here of the charging speed of a Leaf62? I want to see a picture with proof or I won't believe you.

Round Cable

slave1 wrote: »

But was the speed dictated by the car or charger?

I assume the charger should have been capable, it was the 150kw unit and there was no other car charging on it, so full power should have been available. The car is set to max current for both AC and DC charging. And I had driven 100km to get to the charger at pretty decent speeds down the N/M17, and it was fairly warm, so I wouldn't have thought a cold battery would be an issue.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

I think CHAdeMO cars are still the majority on the road

Really? CHAdeMO has been obsolete for many years. I know Leafs still sold well until last year, but I'd like to see some SIMI stats based figures to show this. I doubt it, if I'm honest.

And even if it were the case, why would anyone anywhere build any new infrastructure with tax payers money to cater for cars from ancient history? New infrastructure is for the cars of the future. Not for the cars of yesteryear.

Kramer

Round Cable wrote: »

I assume the charger should have been capable, it was the 150kw unit and there was no other car charging on it, so full power should have been available.

You weren't too far off the max your car can take though, maybe 15% off ideal conditions.

It's not a Tesla

Irishjg

That’s a 64 Kona Charging Curve graph !

graememk

Irishjg wrote: »

That’s a 64 Kona Charging Curve graph !

Kona, Esoul, Eniro, have the same battery + motor

Kramer

Irishjg wrote: »

That’s a 64 Kona Charging Curve graph !

It's from the eSoul page here:

https://ev-database.org/car/1154/Kia-e-Soul-64-kWh

Same company/battery/BMS anyway but it's still not a Tesla

Round Cable

Kramer wrote: »

It's not a Tesla .

Well that's the truth! Maybe I should have waited for the Model Y.

To be honest, after seeing a 24kWh leaf charging on one of these units at 48.2kW, I was expecting more from the Kia. The non-active air cooled Leaf was charging at 2C, while the active liquid cooled eSoul could only muster 0.8C at peak!

I suspect Hyundai/Kia have strict charging curves attached to the battery warranties from LG Chem and SK Innovation. They really should be able to manage 2C charging with the cooling set up employed.

unkel

And for comparison, I was discharging my two in series €25 Chinese battery packs at 5C for a range test this evening on my bike. They did not disappoint. Charged them back up while testing capacity for the first time and I got 6.2Ah capacity out of these packs that were advertised as 6Ah.

5C meant 45-50km/h on a full suspension bike not built for speed with a 100kg rider on it

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

And for comparison, I was discharging my two in series €25 Chinese battery packs at 5C for a range test this evening on my bike.

Stick a Type 2 connector on that sucker & charge it at your nearest ECars DC fast charger. It would be priceless seeing a home built e-bike charging at a rapid

liamog

Mod Note: Moved CHAdeMO vs CCS numbers to thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112028976