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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Buer

There was zero chance of NZ/Australia travelling here during November for rugby matches, in fairness. There was simply no hope of them allowing 50-60 guys travel to Europe, tour around, play close contact sports and come back into the country afterwards. Their borders are shut down and there wasn't going to be an exemption for rugby. The only chance was for matches between the two countries and that might be shelved now due to recent cases in Australia.

South Africa is still on an upward trend for their daily case figures so I don't see them leaving their country any time soon. There are still significant restrictions on movement and daily activities within the country and they don't appear to be progressing to the next level any time soon.

Shefwedfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

No Not that's I've seen. But any lingering chances of them happening I think are done. Trying to gauge the situation in SA now. To see what it might mean for the Pro14

SA are the only ones who havent started Super Rugby.....

Burkie1203

Buer wrote: »

There was zero chance of NZ/Australia travelling here during November for rugby matches, in fairness. There was simply no hope of them allowing 50-60 guys travel to Europe, tour around, play close contact sports and come back into the country afterwards. Their borders are shut down and there wasn't going to be an exemption for rugby. The only chance was for matches between the two countries and that might be shelved now due to recent cases in Australia.

South Africa is still on an upward trend for their daily case figures so I don't see them leaving their country any time soon. There are still significant restrictions on movement and daily activities within the country and they don't appear to be progressing to the next level any time soon.

Until games are officially cancelled there is always a chance however small. Situation could improve in a very short space of time etc. But that's now gone.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SA are the only ones who havent started Super Rugby.....

https://twitter.com/DjRossouw87/status/1280055885251960832?s=19

[Deleted User]

France v Ireland 2014 Six nations was some game.

connachta

I'm always uncertain, does 7's foreign selection prevents a player to be capped with Ireland on residency rules?

Eod100

Looks like remaining 6 Nations fixtures out next week.

Ireland v Italy, Saturday 24th October

France v Ireland, Saturday 31st October

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/trick-or-treat-ireland-set-for-halloween-showdown-with-france-in-paris-1.4300439

Squidgy Black

connachta wrote: »

I'm always uncertain, does 7's foreign selection prevents a player to be capped with Ireland on residency rules?

Yup, if they were over the age of 20 playing another national 7s team, or over the age of 18 at an Olympics or World Cup they're tied to that nation for 15s too.

connachta

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yup, if they were over the age of 20 playing another national 7s team, or over the age of 18 at an Olympics or World Cup they're tied to that nation for 15s too.

Was afraid of this. ****...

Yeah_Right

connachta wrote: »

Was afraid of this. ****...

Who were you hoping to poach?

connachta

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Who were you hoping to poach?

The new Connacht Ben O'Donnell will be 31 and would have qualified for RWC 2027.
If the transition from being a 7's star to a good winger works for him (he's 1m88, 92kg, so he's not too small),
then the perspective to play international rugby in green from 2025 to the RWC would have been a point to stay in Ireland/Connacht long-term...

Shefwedfan

connachta wrote: »

The new Connacht Ben O'Donnell will be 31 and would have qualified for RWC 2027.
If the transition from being a 7's star to a good winger works for him (he's 1m88, 92kg, so he's not too small),
then the perspective to play international rugby in green from 2025 to the RWC would have been a point to stay in Ireland/Connacht long-term...

If he is playing well enough to be even considered for Ireland I would expect Aus to be all over him, not like they have a huge array of options

connachta

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If he is playing well enough to be even considered for Ireland I would expect Aus to be all over him, not like they have a huge array of options

Yeah but if he could, he may have chosen Ireland (if he developed slowly to 2025)

salmocab

connachta wrote: »

Yeah but if he could, he may have chosen Ireland (if he developed slowly to 2025)

We’d have to be quite stuck for a winger to pick a thirty something for their first cap.

connachta

salmocab wrote: »

We’d have to be quite stuck for a winger to pick a thirty something for their first cap.

29. 2 years to prepare RWC, playing it at 31. Doesn't look insane when you played Payne in the same situation for example.

But never mind because of that rule it can't happen, he is (like Godwin) probably back in Australia in 2 years:(

Tommybojangles

Connachta how a Connacht supporter keeps such positivity I'll never know. I've already made peace with the fact O'Donnell is going to be a crock so anything he does will be a bonus

Bazzo

Tommybojangles wrote: »

Connachta how a Connacht supporter keeps such positivity I'll never know. I've already made peace with the fact O'Donnell is going to be a crock so anything he does will be a bonus

Nah, O'Donnell is coming with the same (actually, probably slightly bigger) profile as Porch, who turned out to be an excellent signing. It makes sense that Friend is going for international Aussie 7s players, he's very familiar with them. And back 3 is the easiest position for them to transfer to 15s. Conroy and Adam Leavy had plenty of chances to prove themselves in the academy over the years and failed to impress so it's not like they haven't been given a shot.

Papali'i is a complete punt based on our needs and his physical attributes, but we've essentially already seen the O'Donnell experience work well.

Anyway one of these players will never play for Ireland and the chances of the other doing it are basically 0 so probably not the best place to discuss it in this thread.

connachta

Bazzo wrote: »

Nah, O'Donnell is coming with the same (actually, probably slightly bigger) profile as Porch, who turned out to be an excellent signing. It makes sense that Friend is going for international Aussie 7s players, he's very familiar with them. And back 3 is the easiest position for them to transfer to 15s. Conroy and Adam Leavy had plenty of chances to prove themselves in the academy over the years and failed to impress so it's not like they haven't been given a shot.

Papali'i is a complete punt based on our needs and his physical attributes, but we've essentially already seen the O'Donnell experience work well.

Anyway one of these players will never play for Ireland and the chances of the other doing it are basically 0 so probably not the best place to discuss it in this thread.

I was verifying 7's Aussie selection was a no-go. It is. Full stop.
O'Donnell will be great, Papali'i will be good. I don't get the overwhelming pessimism about both
Yeah they may need a few months to fit in, but nothing when you look them play to be so scornful as some are.. Yes they are gambles. But reasonable ones

shootermacg

Is Leavy back? It would be quite a back row with Tadhg Beirne 6, CJ 8 and Leavy 7.

Dog Botherer

shootermacg wrote: »

Is Leavy back? It would be quite a back row with Tadhg Beirne 6, CJ 8 and Leavy 7.

yes, should be available for the first games

Shefwedfan

shootermacg wrote: »

Is Leavy back? It would be quite a back row with Tadhg Beirne 6, CJ 8 and Leavy 7.

I know your trolling so will leave you to it

Burkie1203

Paycuts agreed

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1282758949683560450?s=19

TomsOnTheRoof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know your trolling so will leave you to it

Hardly trolling. Leavy and Stander are the best available in their positions provided Leavy rehabbed successfully and blindside is far from nailed down atm. If Beirne can find some form he has just as good a chance at lining out at 6 as any of the other contenders.

[Deleted User]

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Hardly trolling. Leavy and Stander are the best available in their positions provided Leavy rehabbed successfully and blindside is far from nailed down atm. If Beirne can find some form he has just as good a chance at lining out at 6 as any of the other contenders.

I'm not sure you can justifiably say that about Beirne. He's been on the wrong end of a few big selection calls and I don't think he's ever been clearly first choice.

I'm not saying he couldn't take the jersey for his own, but the coaches haven't seemed to think so as of yet so any talk of him being the starting 6 is more hopeful than anything else.

I also think Leavy has his work cut out getting the jersey off VDF.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure you can justifiably say that about Beirne. He's been on the wrong end of a few big selection calls and I don't think he's ever been clearly first choice.

I'm not saying he couldn't take the jersey for his own, but the coaches haven't seemed to think so as of yet so any talk of him being the starting 6 is more hopeful than anything else.

I also think Leavy has his work cut out getting the jersey off VDF.

Dropping Leavy into an International match now would be the wrong move, especially with the form of VDF. He should be slowly integrated back into Leinster and then if in form back into Ireland

Too many times players have got rushed back and only end up getting another injury and we are back into the same cycle. We have loads of options in back row. With Conan, Deegan, Doris, POM, Stander, VDF etc.

I hope at this stage they have figured out after another battering in England the backrow of POM, VDF, Stander is not good enough against the top teams,.

molloyjh

We need at least 2 carriers in our back row. For me as it stands our best option is CJ, VDF & Conan/Doris. If Leavy can get back to form then he enters the conversation, but that remains to be seen. Beirne is nowhere near a starting berth in the back row. Too many others offer more than him. Has he even nailed down a starting place for Munster? From recollection he's been moved between second row and back row a bit, starting and benching?

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

We need at least 2 carriers in our back row. For me as it stands our best option is CJ, VDF & Conan/Doris. If Leavy can get back to form then he enters the conversation, but that remains to be seen. Beirne is nowhere near a starting berth in the back row. Too many others offer more than him. Has he even nailed down a starting place for Munster? From recollection he's been moved between second row and back row a bit, starting and benching?

It's an interesting point going into next season now that I think about it.

I imagine Munster's starting second row will be Klyne and Snyman.

Do you start Beirne at 7? Move POM to 7?

I don't think JOD is a 7 and would rather see him play blindside but it's a tough back 5 to break into regardless.

shootermacg

The six shirt is there for Beirne to claim. He's great as a lineout option. Great on the ground and carries better than PoM. He might not have the ballast for the second row, but as a six he's a great option.

[Deleted User]

I was hoping Beirne would be our own David Pocock type player if he translated his form from Scarlets to the international game. Didn't really happen at all.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an interesting point going into next season now that I think about it.

I imagine Munster's starting second row will be Klyne and Snyman.

Do you start Beirne at 7? Move POM to 7?

I don't think JOD is a 7 and would rather see him play blindside but it's a tough back 5 to break into regardless.

I expect POM to 7

Former Former

molloyjh wrote: »

We need at least 2 carriers in our back row. For me as it stands our best option is CJ, VDF & Conan/Doris. If Leavy can get back to form then he enters the conversation, but that remains to be seen. Beirne is nowhere near a starting berth in the back row. Too many others offer more than him. Has he even nailed down a starting place for Munster? From recollection he's been moved between second row and back row a bit, starting and benching?

Agree with all of this. Stander is our best 6 and (I think) is better there than at 8. I don't think Conan is a long-term answer so I'd love to see Doris get another run after his Six Nations didn't pan out.

At 7, I think VDF is a lot more secure than people here think, Leavy has a lot of ground to make up but if he does it will be awesome to have two very good and quite different options.

I don't think Beirne will rise above the 19/20 jersey tbh. He might not even be starting for Munster (in any position) this season.