Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader wrote: »

More flakey dishonest efforts to justify the indefensible.

In every war there are sick people who take the opportunity to indulge themselves. My Lai in Vietnam, ethnic cleansing in Serbia, concentration camps Bloody Sunday, Korean rape Camps. Most of the soldiers do not participate; the ones that do are war criminals and should be treated as such

The " 'RA "as you so affectionately call them devoted themselves almost exclusively to subhuman criminal behaviour, murdering random innocent people who posed no threat to them, shooting unarmed farmers in front of their families, mutilating young people out for a night in pubs and crippling teenagers who did not show the right level of respect.

Whatever they are they are not soldiers and their pretendy uniforms, misuse of the Irish flag and comical funeral services for dead criminals certainly doesn't buy them any more credibility

All war/conflict is subhuman Truth, there is no nice civil version.

Truthvader wrote: »

More flakey dishonest efforts to justify the indefensible.

In every war there are sick people who take the opportunity to indulge themselves. My Lai in Vietnam, ethnic cleansing in Serbia, concentration camps Bloody Sunday, Korean rape Camps. Most of the soldiers do not participate; the ones that do are war criminals and should be treated as such

The " 'RA "as you so affectionately call them devoted themselves almost exclusively to subhuman criminal behaviour, murdering random innocent people who posed no threat to them, shooting unarmed farmers in front of their families, mutilating young people out for a night in pubs and crippling teenagers who did not show the right level of respect.

Whatever they are they are not soldiers and their pretendy uniforms, misuse of the Irish flag and comical funeral services for dead criminals certainly doesn't buy them any more credibility

I see Haughey got a state one, gun running. Michael Collins, terrorism. DeValera fraud, terrorism...
Do you think having Flanagan near the flag is a farce? I do. Each to his own. Flag belongs to the country.

Spanish Eyes

Bowie wrote: »

I see SF and the IRA as connected. Did you know some SF members were in the IRA? True story.
More members of the public voted for SF than FG. Oops.

That won't change my mind at all sorry now. Are SF in power, no. Gwan now. No one wants to get into bed with them with their baggage. Look at the current Gov.

But next election, who knows? Glad to be able to leave this country if that happens!

Osamabumdipper

very interesting thread this. Predictable the way its gone.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That won't change my mind at all sorry now. Are SF in power, no. Gwan now. No one wants to get into bed with them with their baggage. Look at the current Gov.

But next election, who knows? Glad to be able to leave this country if that happens!

That's okay. No worries.
I said they got more support than FG.
That's what's behind all this feverish upset.
Who knows indeed. Fingers crossed for the SDs and PBP.

Bowie wrote: »

I see Haughey got a state one, gun running. Michael Collins, terrorism. DeValera fraud, terrorism...

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Spanish Eyes

Bowie wrote: »

That's okay. No worries.
I said they got more support than FG.
That's what's behind all this feverish upset.
Who knows indeed. Fingers crossed for the SDs and PBP.

Good to see a reasonable and calm poster in these threads.

Zebra3

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

Spanish Eyes

Zebra3 wrote: »

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

SF did not have a presence here in Gov in those days did they?

Not saying it was right, it was despicable. Just making the point.

Zebra3 wrote: »

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

WTF ?????????????

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

The vindication of some of the players had to come and there it is.

SafeSurfer

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Where is your proof that Haughey was involved in gun running.

efanton

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Where is your proof that Haughey was involved in gun running.

well if you know your history you would know that the Irish government authorised £100,000 for aid to those in Derry in the aftermath of the events of August 1969 (The battle of the bogside as it later became to be known).

Charles Haughey was at the time was Finance minister and a member of the sub committed formed to disperse that fund.
As Minister for Finance, it was Haughey’s responsibility that £100,000 was used for its intended purpose, but it was later proven that at least half of it to have been used for the purchase of weapons.

So whether Haughey was directly involved in the importation of weapons and gun running is relevant. It was him , and only him, that could have made that money available for others to purchase those weapons.

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves,Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Bingo! You are justifying the actions of a man supplied guns to terrorists because his motives seem acceptable to you.

War is hell. Collins and DeV didn't cover themselves in honour and glory.

I think each version of freedom fighter/terrorist was of it's time. It's too easy to look further back and romanticise the same things you criticse from the more recent.

Anyway, all SF have going for me is looking to build more social and affordable housing.
The IRA don't really come in to it. I think many feel that way and they are tired of FG and chums.
Sadly while the IRA fade, the crony incompetence of FF/ FG persists. That's how SF are doing well and hopefully other non-FF/FG types do too.
The Troubles are over chief.

Pkiernan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't see them any differently to soldiers returning to normal life after a conflict/war.
Awful things are done in war and conflict, but millions have returned to normal and fulfilling lives after.

Ever hear of war crimes,

Bishop of hope

By gum, he's hit the nail on the head.:D

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/malachi-odoherty/imagined-sinn-feins-handbook-for-trolls-dont-argue-just-insult-and-never-ever-say-youre-sorry-39343848.html

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Bingo! You are justifying the actions of a man supplied guns to terrorists because his motives seem acceptable to you.

War is hell. Collins and DeV didn't cover themselves in honour and glory.

I think each version of freedom fighter/terrorist was of it's time. It's too easy to look further back and romanticise the same things you criticse from the more recent.

Anyway, all SF have going for me is looking to build more social and affordable housing.
The IRA don't really come in to it. I think many feel that way and they are tired of FG and chums.
Sadly while the IRA fade, the crony incompetence of FF/ FG persists. That's how SF are doing well and hopefully other non-FF/FG types do too.
The Troubles are over chief.

I doubt it, the struggle is ongoing, just without guns and daily bombings.
Neither side can sit and look the other in the face without looking for an assault or a way to put the other down.
They can't even agree to sit down together without a brokered deal and forced acceptance of each other.
If you took the British and Irish political guile out of NI you'd be sitting on a daily we do this you do that, with no govt formation capable of running a state of any description.
There is relative peace, but the funeral and the 12th will show the pomposity of both sides up and the utter contempt they have for the other.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

By gum, he's hit the nail on the head.:D

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/malachi-odoherty/imagined-sinn-feins-handbook-for-trolls-dont-argue-just-insult-and-never-ever-say-youre-sorry-39343848.html

Ah Malachi!

Ironic that he publishes that the week the leader of SF had to drag another politician from another party into court in order to get him to say 'sorry'.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Ever hear of war crimes,

Yes I have.

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I doubt it, the struggle is ongoing, just without guns and daily bombings.
Neither side can sit and look the other in the face without looking for an assault or a way to put the other down.
They can't even agree to sit down together without a brokered deal and forced acceptance of each other.
If you took the British and Irish political guile out of NI you'd be sitting on a daily we do this you do that, with no govt formation capable of running a state of any description.
There is relative peace, but the funeral and the 12th will show the pomposity of both sides up and the utter contempt they have for the other.

That is just factually wrong Bish.

SF sat down with the DUP once an inquiry was set up and under way in RHI. They negotiated an agreement in good faith (Just like Theresa May did with the EI incidentally) and the DUP initially agreed but walked away from it later...again similar to what they did to May.
The SoS pointed specifically at one party as the block two years after that event.

The DUP have frequently refused to engage with Dublin also, the parades commission and anything involving certain rights, cultural and social.
They also refuse to recognise and officially endorse the GFA.

You are being totally unfair here.

Bowie wrote: »

Bingo! You are justifying the actions of a man supplied guns to terrorists because his motives seem acceptable to you.

War is hell. Collins and DeV didn't cover themselves in honour and glory.

I think each version of freedom fighter/terrorist was of it's time. It's too easy to look further back and romanticise the same things you criticse from the more recent.

Anyway, all SF have going for me is looking to build more social and affordable housing.
The IRA don't really come in to it. I think many feel that way and they are tired of FG and chums.
Sadly while the IRA fade, the crony incompetence of FF/ FG persists. That's how SF are doing well and hopefully other non-FF/FG types do too.
The Troubles are over chief.

No fan of Haughey I'm afraid. The point is that Sinn Fein/ IRA were not involved in any kind of war; they were involved in sordid and cruel crime to secure personal advantage for themselves.

As to housing; I don think Sinn Fein have the wit to supply anyone with anything. I nearly fell over when another poster described O'Broin as an "intellectual". I think you will find they wont rise above stealing ink cartridges, the odd deniable murder plus a couple of Garda abuse public order events every year. They will certainly promise you anything you like

As to FF/FG I get the history of petty thievery around planning etc in FF but although you incessantly drop dark hints about "cronyism" in FG it is never backed up by anything save that someone is married to someone who works in Goldman Sachs. Not looking for Francie levels "proof" but really no idea what you are talking about

Bishop of hope wrote: »

By gum, he's hit the nail on the head.:D

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/malachi-odoherty/imagined-sinn-feins-handbook-for-trolls-dont-argue-just-insult-and-never-ever-say-youre-sorry-39343848.html

In fairness not sure this applies to posters here. The Sinn Fein supporters are certainly unapologetic and determined to maintain various interpretations of history which are just not true but don't see much abuse etc

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I doubt it, the struggle is ongoing, just without guns and daily bombings.
Neither side can sit and look the other in the face without looking for an assault or a way to put the other down.
They can't even agree to sit down together without a brokered deal and forced acceptance of each other.
If you took the British and Irish political guile out of NI you'd be sitting on a daily we do this you do that, with no govt formation capable of running a state of any description.
There is relative peace, but the funeral and the 12th will show the pomposity of both sides up and the utter contempt they have for the other.

if the British money train ever stops and they can no longer be bought off both sides will be back to the full on crime agenda that has served them so well to date. Pray we don't get a United Ireland

Mortelaro

A United Ireland is unlikely in the next 30 years in my opinion by which time,there won't be much living memories of the troubles

The EU and London will transitional pay for a lot of it
The Republic gave circa 300 million net to the EU last year
There'd be no more of that gorgeous z while for starters

Mortelaro wrote: »

A United Ireland is unlikely in the next 30 years in my opinion by which time,there won't be much living memories of the troubles

The EU and London will transitional pay for a lot of it
The Republic gave circa 300 million net to the EU last year
There'd be no more of that gorgeous z while for starters

Hmmmm dunno about that. Both sides seem determined to keep reminding everyone about "the troubles" so the toxin is passed down the generations. We've just had the glorious Sinn Fein/IRA funeral and the other mob are about to have their annual "glorious 12th/ marching season" death fetish

Hamsterchops

Osamabumdipper wrote: »

very interesting thread this. Predictable the way its gone.

Obviously by design as is always with Provo/SF threads. Keep em going for as long as you can, multiple threads keeping SF and the IRA high profile. The usual suspects led by Uncle Tom with his wing commander Francis grinding out the narrative along with commander Ziggy Stardust & a selection of foot "soldiers"

So predictable.

maccored

Bishop of hope wrote: »

By gum, he's hit the nail on the head.:D

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/malachi-odoherty/imagined-sinn-feins-handbook-for-trolls-dont-argue-just-insult-and-never-ever-say-youre-sorry-39343848.html

was that written by one of yerselves? It sounds EXACTLY like the strategy we see the ABSFers on here pushing.

The snide insults, the complete fabrications that are repeated without anything to back them up, insults are usually the reply when a question cant be answered .... Its not SF supporters acting like that.

Mortelaro

Truthvader wrote: »

Hmmmm dunno about that. Both sides seem determined to keep reminding everyone about "the troubles" so the toxin is passed down the generations. We've just had the glorious Sinn Fein/IRA funeral and the other mob are about to have their annual "glorious 12th/ marching season" death fetish

Pandemic aside,in 30 yrs time those types of Bobby Storey R.I.P events will have blended into the same significance as Beál na bláth ,arbour Hill etc
Marching season will continue with ones in the rest of Ireland too as the brethren migrate to find jobs and meet their distant cousins once cut off but no more
Britain (or perhaps just England and Wales by then) will settle a transitional payment and the EU will cough up the rest

Edited to add jack chambers will be Tsoiseach

efanton

maccored wrote: »

was that written by one of yerselves? It sounds EXACTLY like the strategy we see the ABSFers on here pushing.

The snide insults, the complete fabrications that are repeated without anything to back them up, insults are usually the reply when a question cant be answered .... Its not SF supporters acting like that.

The problem is when faced with the reality that your world view is false, its easier to make false accusations, deny truths and promote a your warped view rather than address the issue directly.

A United Ireland is perfectly possible within the next 10 to 15 years.

The arguments that we could not afford it have been shown to not hold water.

The arguments that the UK would never relinquish control of northern Ireland is stupid, they would sell out the Unionists in a heart beat as they already have over BREXIT, because it was politically expedient and financially beneficial to the UK mainland. It is only a matter of time before the nationalist population exceed that of the unionists and both the the British government and the Unionists are well aware of that.

Larger and larger numbers of protestants in northern Ireland are becoming more ambivalent to a united Ireland. They have little or no say in Westminster but in a untied Ireland I dare say they could be guaranteed at least 15 seats (possibly 20+ if the number of seats in the Dail increased to cater for a larger population) in the Dail which effectively would put them in a position of being the fourth biggest party and likely to be part of a government within a decade.

With a United Ireland the North would not be avoided by multinationals as a base of operation because the perceived view by multinational and big business that it is still a world trouble spot will quickly fade away. In fact with low property values, a large workforce available for work and no doubt the many schemes financed by the EU and Irish government immediately after unification, along with the USA no doubt wanting to have its finger in the pie as well would make it very attractive to businesses. Most protestants in the North are not so blinded by some of their political leaders fervour not to see that.

In fact if I was a FG supporter I would be looking for unification as soon as possible, because the Unionists would be the ideal coalition partners (sharing a a similar conservative outlook), and it is likely that FG will never again get a majority large enough to go into government solo, or only needing a handful of extra seats. In fact FG and the Unionist parties could consider a merger of sorts and FG could then legitimately use their official title Fine Gael, The United Ireland Party.