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Intellectuals weigh in on Cancel Culture

Silentcorner

"Intellectuals" are speaking up...150 of them are anyway, including Salman Rushdie, JK Rowling....they warn us of the dangers illiberalism that is creeping into our society and culture, the intolerance.

Anyway, it is nice for all these liberals to tell us what many have been pointing out for years, but the fact that they point to the danger of Donald Trump and his threat to democracy as an example (they don't explain exactly how he is a threat to democracy) is in of itself an illiberal statement to make....but it's odd in that Trump's speech on July forth was in complete agreement with them...they probably watched the CNN/Bloomberg/MSNBC/NYT etc version.

When will the penny finally drop with these intellectual liberals that it is they that have created, participated in, profited from, and either encouraged or did nothing to stop this culture gaining a foothold in academia, media and the arts over the last decade at least.

They mention "the right" a couple of times, they neglect to identify or even mention the people pulling down statues, rioting, protesting demanding allegiance to what is a hard left political movement (BLM) at this very moment in time.

Feminism (this wave)/SJW culture is rooted in hard left ideology which US academia is drenched in, what did they think was going to happen?

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

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Junkyard Tom

2u2me wrote: »

Do you still agree with this post Tom?

Yes.

Do you think the worldwide protests, riots and cultural revolution we're seeing is still a conspiracy?

No I don't. This is the same shit that was thrown around in the 1950's with McCarthyism, was repackaged for the Hippies in the 60s/70s, and it's back again with the BLM stuff.

Reds-under-the-bed for 21st Century suckers.

2u2me

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes.

No I don't. This is the same shit that was thrown around in the 1950's with McCarthyism, was repackaged for the Hippies in the 60s/70s, and it's back again with the BLM stuff.

Reds-under-the-bed for 21st Century suckers.

It's back with this BLM stuff but has mixed with anarchists, neo-marxists and post-modernists. It no longer makes any sense. I hope you're right. I guess time will tell.

“This isn’t about free speech, and this is only tangentially about college campuses. This is about a breakdown in the basic logic of civilization, and it’s spreading. College campuses may be the first dramatic battle, but of course this is going to find its way into courts. It’s already found its way into the tech sector. It’s going to find its way to the highest levels of governance, if we’re not careful. It actually does jeopardize the ability of civilization to continue to function.”

Junkyard Tom

2u2me wrote: »

It's back with this BLM stuff but has mixed with anarchists, neo-marxists and post-modernists. It no longer makes any sense. I hope you're right. I guess time will tell.

I'd say over 99% of the people at those demonstrations would have no chance of giving you a definition of neo-marxism, anarchism and post-modernism.

YouTube's algorithm has a lot to answer for, it has people living in one of the safest, most prosperous, countries on earth i.e. Ireland terrified of some conspiracy or other.

I was a child when there was an actual threat of global nuclear war and there might well have been reds-under-the-bed. Wealthy Germans and Dutch people bought homes in West Cork as they considered it relatively safe in the event of a nuclear exchange.

This shit is trivial.

James Brown

Silentcorner wrote: »

"Intellectuals" are speaking up...150 of them are anyway, including Salman Rushdie, JK Rowling....they warn us of the dangers illiberalism that is creeping into our society and culture, the intolerance.

Anyway, it is nice for all these liberals to tell us what many have been pointing out for years, but the fact that they point to the danger of Donald Trump and his threat to democracy as an example (they don't explain exactly how he is a threat to democracy) is in of itself an illiberal statement to make....but it's odd in that Trump's speech on July forth was in complete agreement with them...they probably watched the CNN/Bloomberg/MSNBC/NYT etc version.

When will the penny finally drop with these intellectual liberals that it is they that have created, participated in, profited from, and either encouraged or did nothing to stop this culture gaining a foothold in academia, media and the arts over the last decade at least.

They mention "the right" a couple of times, they neglect to identify or even mention the people pulling down statues, rioting, protesting demanding allegiance to what is a hard left political movement (BLM) at this very moment in time.

Feminism (this wave)/SJW culture is rooted in hard left ideology which US academia is drenched in, what did they think was going to happen?

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

Yes I agree. The so called liberals are too right wing. Look at the U.S. Democrats. We need more socialism.

PonchoMcHoncho

And still they don't call it out for what it is. There's 3 or 4 mentions of the radical right being dangerous, using coercion, being intolerant and threatening open debate. And then some wishy washy ****e about it "spreading more widely in society". As if it's radical right vs society.

The rise in intolerance and cancel culture that they're talking about is a result of more and more people moving to the radical left. And while the radical right is demonized at every opportunity (and rightly so) and as a result somewhat viewed as lunatics and kept to a minimum the radical lefties are called liberals, wider society, left etc and given credibility that they shouldn't be given.

Hannibal36

Not a Trump lover in the least, but when people start saying he is a threat to democracy you know they aren't being honest with you,and are up to something underhand on some level.

As if Hillary or Biden is going to be a whole lot different,Obama killed more people than Trump did and their economy has been booming up until Covid hit,i just don't get how anybody buys these silly accusations against Trump.

He isn't Mother Teresa but he isn't Hitler either,hes just a greedy capitalist businessman with a massive ego,born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

ILoveYourVibes

There is no such thing as cancel culture. Its a fantasy.

Sure a website can ban you and if you were stupid enough to put all your eggs in one basket and bite the hand that feeds you then it can affect you.

But saying the n word hasn't harmed trump much has it?

People get cancelled all the time ...then the next month they have a movie coming out.

How many times has Mel Gibson been cancelled?

[Deleted User]

ILoveYourVibes, I disagree with you on a lot of things. If I owned boards.ie and banned you now for your opinions, you would just accept it and call cancel culture a myth?

Quantum Erasure

what ever happened Kevin Myers?

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes, I disagree with you on a lot of things. If I owned boards.ie and banned you now for your opinions, you would just accept it and call cancel culture a myth?

Good question, perhaps phrasing it slightly different might be more accurate.

The familys of the victims that died in CHAZ could start a petition online to have Ilyv removed from every social media site because of what she wrote on the CHAZ thread. She was promoting it, treating it like a joke;which lead to deaths of many people. I'm sure the familys of those dead victims might be offended by what she wrote in the Chaz thread. They could easily get Ilyv banned from every social media site if they wanted to.

Then will she say cancel culture doesn't exist?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Of course the Neo Nazis are just over reacting and going nuts like they always do.

Such angry people.

There is little media on this. So the right wing are just making up everything.

Thankfully real people have some common sense.

Hannibal36

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

what ever happened Kevin Myers?

That was one cancel i have to say i enjoyed.Remember he wrote an article back in the day in the Indo saying the Irish weren't mechanically minded,used to grate on me bigtime how we let this guy who hated everything about Ireland to write in our paper every week,but he had his followers of Irish people who hate themselves and liked to see a guy write every week about how useless we were.

He is one that deserved every bit of his comeuppance with his nasty bigoted generalisations,when he generalised on the Jewish people he got his much deserved cancelling.

ILoveYourVibes

Hannibal36 wrote: »

That was one cancel i have to say i enjoyed.Remember he wrote an article back in the day in the Indo saying the Irish weren't mechanically minded,used to grate on me bigtime how we let this guy who hated everything about Ireland to write in our paper every week,but he had his followers of Irish people who hate themselves and liked to see a guy write every week about how useless we were.

He is one that deserved every bit of his comeuppance with his nasty bigoted generalisations,when he generalised on the Jewish people he got his much deserved cancelling.

It was only THEN he got it tho...it used to baffle me why other irish people put up with it...

It baffles me why Irish people put up with lots of **** from our neighbors imo or certain british people living here

Bonniedog

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

McCarthyism

Reds-under-the-bed for 21st Century suckers.

Lefties have been thrown this bullsh1t around for 50 years. Some facts:

Communist Party of US not only supported the worst tyrant in history - Mao was just out of his apprenticeship at the time - but their organization was substantially under the control of Soviet intelligence, as proven by the Venona transcripts.

Those idiots thought that stealing atomic secrets for Stalin was a good idea.

At same time they were bleating over a few dozen reds going to jail for a few months, the system they served had millions of political prisoners and had already murdered millions.

And so "fascist" was the US that they didn't ban this disgusting party of traitors. America needs similar cojones now to deal with what is a concerted attack by the ultra left in large part with the connivance of the Democratic Party.

The J Stands for Jay

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

A lot of Irish third level institutions are very vocational oriented, but you still plenty egregious examples. To apply for a grant with the Irish research council you are pressured to make a gender statement, regardless of what field you are in. Many and all UCD hires now are marked during assessment on their diversity. We have centres of equality studies, gender studies and black studies. We have vice presidents of diversity in most of them now. I would say Irish universities have been left wing for decades, but incrementally have moved from Cultural liberalism to intolerantly progressive.

What's a gender statement?

conorhal

Just declare Twitter (with it's cancel mobs) and Facebook (with it's whisper networks) detremental to public health (and just look at mental health statistics since their launch from around 2012 onwards) and ban them.
That would go a long way to putting the kibosh on this nonsense, it would greatly increase the mental and psychological wellbeing of society and absolutely nothing of value would be lost.

[Deleted User]

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The American culture 'wars' are confusing, sad, and a sign of a very broken society.

I'd like to think that the wonderful EU project will continue to display what has been the most successful humanity project that the world has ever seen.

We are the 1%, dudes. The most educated, lucky, wealthy, peaceful, and content people who have ever existed.

Ever can be debated but certainly at the moment there's nowhere better in the world than Europe to reside.

We are the 1%, that is true.

Dyr

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The American culture 'wars' are confusing, sad, and a sign of a very broken society.

I'd like to think that the wonderful EU project will continue to display what has been the most successful humanity project that the world has ever seen.

We are the 1%, dudes. The most educated, lucky, wealthy, peaceful, and content people who have ever existed.

Referring to these culture wars as American is like pretending covid 19 never spread beyond China, even Chemical Ali would blush at such
Dissembling

Quantum Erasure

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

what ever happened Kevin Myers?

I may not agree with everything he's said, and I won't defend to the death his right to say it, but I did enjoy the odd article of his

Yellow_Fern

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Peterson's political waffling is hilariously bad. Lobster behaviour means hierarchy in humans is 'natural' and postmodern Neo-Marxists have taken over the academia etc?

It's just a load of age-old reactionary guff repackaged and sold to people with views they want confirmed by a 'credible' academic.

Hierarchy is what biologists call a conserved behaviour. It is deeply ancient. Peterson isnt arguing a particular hierarchy is natural, apart from it representing competence. orcas have female leadership for example but competence leadership is and this is contradicts a lot of postmodern ideas.

is_that_so

RWCNT wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how the hard left takeover of higher education took place exactly?

I'm not long out of higher education myself and my lecturers mainly stuck to the syllabus around business management and economics. Was the lecturer tapping out The Communist Manifesto in morse code on his desk the whole time and I just didn't notice?

1960s was where it kicked off, more so the late 1960s. Tom Sharpe wrote about it in 1976!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_(novel)

Bonniedog

Bowie wrote: »

We need more socialism.

Eh, why exactly?

Several hundred million deaths ought to have convinced you that is a beaten docket

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd say over 99% of the people at those demonstrations would have no chance of giving you a definition of neo-marxism, anarchism and post-modernism.

I couldn't give you a definition for any of them, because I turn off when people start talking political "science". It's a language made up by people who want to appear more intelligent than they actually are. Traditionally, so they could sit in cafes and marvel listeners with their weird words... Anyone who creates a technical language to exclude others is a muppet.

It's one of the main reason I don't like Jordan Peterson. He feels compelled to talk this way, and throw it into personal development books. Tool.

YouTube's algorithm has a lot to answer for, it has people living in one of the safest, most prosperous, countries on earth i.e. Ireland terrified of some conspiracy or other.

I don't live in Ireland, and I'm worried about how western culture is developing. I'm genuinely bothered by how divided westerners are becoming on a cultural level. This expectation to feel guilt for... well... everything is dangerous.

I was a child when there was an actual threat of global nuclear war and there might well have been reds-under-the-bed. Wealthy Germans and Dutch people bought homes in West Cork as they considered it relatively safe in the event of a nuclear exchange.

This shit is trivial.

Not when you're outside Europe looking in, and hearing other people on the outside talking. This is about how other peoples (nations) perceive the West. Never before has the West appeared so weak to other countries, and we actually deserve to look that weak, because we're eating ourselves from the inside out. Importing problems before we've figured a practical way to resolve the other older issues.

Nope. It's not trivial. Anarchy has become very attractive to many people over the last decade. The increase in governments power, the change in US foreign behavior (Iraq, G Bay, etc), BLM, all lead towards weakness. The problem being that Ireland relies on the remainder of the West for it's economy and protection.

So, nope. Not trivial at all.

jam_mac_jam

It's not trivial when people's lives are ruined by the mob. People have lost their jobs because of their opninions. It's not nuclear war but it is important that you can express your views freely without having to worry you will be portrayed as a racist or sexist for questioning a political point of view.

paw patrol

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

what ever happened Kevin Myers?

Absolutely no redemption for him.
It's bizarre when you think about it , how many people can apologise and get reinstated into polite society but not poor Myers.

Kinda odd that, it's almost like myers criticized those that cannot be criticized...further compounded by the fact he was pro israel and quite blunt about it.

i thought he was a knob of the highest order but I think cancel culture is a horrible thing too

Yellow_Fern

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There is no such thing as cancel culture. Its a fantasy.

Sure a website can ban you and if you were stupid enough to put all your eggs in one basket and bite the hand that feeds you then it can affect you.

But saying the n word hasn't harmed trump much has it?

People get cancelled all the time ...then the next month they have a movie coming out.

How many times has Mel Gibson been cancelled?

There is no video evidence of Trump saying the N word, I think if there was, then he would be under a lot from heat. Sometime doesn't have to happen every time for it to be true phenomenon.

gourcuff

myers was on with ivan only last week

paw patrol

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There is no such thing as cancel culture. Its a fantasy.

It's far from a fantasy.
Thinking in terms of twitter or facebook is too narrow - i suspect you argued on that point on purpose.

You get a pile on where mobs start attacking employers and associates of an individual. Mobs driven by an almost religious fervour demanding a sacrifice.
Employers and associates who weren't involved at all and whatever was said or done isn't even relevant to them- are now harassed into a decision in what isn't their fight.

Of course in a panic it's easier to cut ties with somebody instead of making a decision, most of them aren't cowards but have been caught by a sucker punch and now are unwittingly in the spotlight through no fault of their own.
That's bullying and mob behaviour of the worst kind.

Did you know with George Hook that journalists from the irish times constantly rang newstalk demanding his resignation/sacking.
What type of sh1te is that?

I find it difficult to believe (considering your previous posts) that you are not aware of this.
So your denial is indicative of your stance and your morality on this.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

I couldn't give you a definition for any of them, because I turn off when people start talking political "science". It's a language made up by people who want to appear more intelligent than they actually are. Traditionally, so they could sit in cafes and marvel listeners with their weird words... Anyone who creates a technical language to exclude others is a muppet.

If you've ever heard someone say "That's your truth" that's post-modernism.

"A writer who says that there are no truths, or that all truth is 'merely relative,' is asking you not to believe him. So don't."-Roger Scruton

banie01

Gods Gift wrote: »

Weigh in.

Thank you!
I would also have accepted wade in.

Perhaps the OP meant the intellectuals are looking for a way in to cancel culture?

Food for thought!

Yellow_Fern

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

It's not trivial when people's lives are ruined by the mob. People have lost their jobs because of their opninions. It's not nuclear war but it is important that you can express your views freely without having to worry you will be portrayed as a racist or sexist for questioning a political point of view.

Jordan Peterson had a visiting lectureship in Cambridge cancelled because of student activism. But I think the best examples of cancel culture are when you have random apolitical people punished for things they mistakenly thought to do, like the engineer who gave an oK sign while driving down the street and was fired for its supposed white supremacist meaning when it appears he was just cracking his knuckles. . There other examples.

McGaggs wrote: »

What's a gender statement?

You have to explain how you take into gender into account. They ask for integration of sex/gender dimension into research content. It sounds all well and good but in most fields this is impossible and requires a complete overhaul of the project. If you are studying 15th cen politics or say political reform in southern Africa, if you were to really take into account sex and gender, properly you would have to do a totally different project. Somethings are very hard to just add one.

Deleted User wrote: »

I Traditionally, so they could sit in cafes and marvel listeners with their weird words... Anyone who creates a technical language to exclude others is a muppet.

It's one of the main reason I don't like Jordan Peterson. He feels compelled to talk this way, and throw it into personal development books. Tool.

Peterson's books are very well written and jargon free. Very easy to read. Political science may not be a real science but psychology is. Psychology is the not hardest of sciences but it is a science and it has some the most sophisticated maths because humans are so complex and unpredictable. So the point is, psychology has technical jargon and it requires it.