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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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AndyBoBandy

ESB ecars twin AC being installed today in Tesco, Rush.

Rush's first public EV charger.

zg3409

The new 44kW DC charger in Cavan is broken on CCS according to the esb app. It says Chademo OK.

ELM327

for gods sake thats ridiculous.

Black_Knight

Some poor bastard is charging on AC there now.

ELM327

Oh wow
2kW

unkel

Sure they'll be on their way again by tomorrow evening, should have enough charge to get home then.

ELM327

Interesting chatter on facebook this morning from someone charging on CCS who had the charge interrupted when a chademo user connected the chademo plug to their car.

This issue has been known for some time, hopefully the new units have the necessary software to fix this issue.
Interestingly, the 44kW DC units have corrected for this, as the cables are locked until you scan your card. And, you cannot unlock the chademo plug when the CCS is unlocked

slave1

Even if they are incompetent from a software perspective a simple notice on the rapid charger itself to not plug in either the CCS or CHAdeMo when either one already in use would not take that much of an effort.

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Even if they are incompetent from a software perspective a simple notice on the rapid charger itself to not plug in either the CCS or CHAdeMo when either one already in use would not take that much of an effort.

If I was at that charger, nobody would be plugging in any CHAdeMO while I was charging CCS, I can tell you that much

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

If I was at that charger, nobody would be plugging in any CHAdeMO while I was charging CCS, I can tell you that much

IT happened to me at coynes cross.
I was charging away and having breakfast in the services. The 4 of us were on the way down to wexford.

Next thing I know there's a notification on my phone that the charge was interrupted. I came running out to see a leaf starting a charge on chademo and another leaf queueing.

I stopped his charge and called the helpline as I could not start another charge on my car to finish (I had been there only 15-20 mins at that stage and needed the same again, as we had no destination charger). Finally managed to (re)start my charge via the phone. She had to reboot the charger.

They (the two leaf owners) kept arguing with me but as it was a 2018 leaf with a D reg I think he knew what he was doing.

TLDR It can happen to all of us, even a big hairy man like me prone to too much aggression!

unkel

They wouldn't have plugged in if you'd been standing there! In fact this happened to me several times back in the day when someone was about to plug in CHAdeMO. And I was like: "whooahh, hold on a second, what are you doing?" before explaining in friendly but no uncertain terms that they were NOT to plug in that CHAdeMO cable into their Leaf

Black_Knight

Don't forget your zip ties folks!

ELM327

Now, if I'm charging at a 50kW chargepoint and plan to leave the car, I use my chademo adapter :P

unkel

There can't be more than a handful of cars in this country that can charge at ALL the public chargers

Maybe yours is the only one!

slave1

Ironically there is at least one eCars CHAdeMo ONLY rapid, the one just north of Enniskillen is listed as no CCS but I stopped using it long ago as it was always broken so have not seen with my own eyes to verify

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Ironically there is at least one eCars CHAdeMo ONLY rapid, the one just north of Enniskillen is listed as no CCS but I stopped using it long ago as it was always broken so have not seen with my own eyes to verify

There's quite a few chademo only ones
I've been to that one before and it didnt work on DC or AC for me.

AndyBoBandy

Tried charging at the new AC22 in Tesco, Rush today but it wouldn't sustain a charge, kept stopping after about 8 seconds..

It's powered on, and said it was 'available to charge', and its registered the attempts to charge in my charge history..

I guess they need to formally activate it or something, and publish it on their app before its usable..

Kramer

So I rock up to the Galway Plaza hub today, really in need of a charge.
In their wisdom, ESB decided to remove the 2nd DC charger, presumably, in preparation for their new super dooper 150kW unit.

A Kona was charging on the only charger there now, leaving me high & dry.

Why they couldn't leave the existing 50kW unit in situ, until they were ready to install the upgraded unit, I'll never know. Maybe it's an ESB thing...........I'll have to check with unkel :pac:.

I waited 10 minutes & couldn't even manage to get near enough to hook up the AC for some juice - I had to move on & pray I would make it to the next charger.

Thanks ECars

Black_Knight

Kramer wrote: »

So I rock up to the Galway Plaza hub today, really in need of a charge.
In their wisdom, ESB decided to remove the 2nd DC charger, presumably, in preparation for their new super dooper 150kW unit.

A Kona was charging on the only charger there now, leaving me high & dry.

Why they couldn't leave the existing 50kW unit in situ, until they were ready to install the upgraded unit, I'll never know. Maybe it's an ESB thing...........I'll have to check with unkel :pac:.

I waited 10 minutes & couldn't even manage to get near enough to hook up the AC for some juice - I had to move on & pray I would make it to the next charger.

Thanks ECars .

Because 2 makes a hub, 3 is just showing off.

Isn't that Galway plaza only open about 5 minutes now? And their removing/replacing/upgrading a new charger already? Why not a bit of foresight and install the 150kW unit when it opened!?

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Because 2 makes a hub, 3 is just showing off.

Isn't that Galway plaza only open about 5 minutes now? And their removing/replacing/upgrading a new charger already? Why not a bit of foresight and install the 150kW unit when it opened!?

They didn't have them at the time, though I am surprised they didn't build it in such a way that it would be a straight swap.

unkel

Still the same layout as at the very start of EVs I see. For cars with the charger at the optimal location (exactly the same as where we have established over the last 100 years where the optimal location of the petrol / diesel fill cap is) you can't reach with the cable if the left of the two parking spaces is taken, no matter what way you'd park* :rolleyes:

* unless at least 3 spaces to the right of the occupied space are free, I have done this method several times

@Kramer - in your case I would probably just have waited on Kona. Surely they would be finished and moved on within 45 minutes because of the overstay penalties? If not, then those penalties aren't stiff enough.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Still the same layout as at the very start of EVs I see. For cars with the charger at the optimal location (exactly the same as where we have established over the last 100 years where the optimal location of the petrol / diesel fill cap is) you can't reach with the cable if the left of the two parking spaces is taken, no matter what way you'd park* :rolleyes:

* unless at least 3 spaces to the right of the occupied space are free, I have done this method several times

@Kramer - in your case I would probably just have waited on Kona. Surely they would be finished and moved on within 45 minutes because of the overstay penalties? If not, then those penalties aren't stiff enough.

I've paid the penalty a couple of times now. Intentionally, as there were no HPC on my route and we only wanted one stop for lunch

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Still the same layout as at the very start of EVs I see. For cars with the charger at the optimal location (exactly the same as where we have established over the last 100 years where the optimal location of the petrol / diesel fill cap is) you can't reach with the cable if the left of the two parking spaces is taken, no matter what way you'd park* :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if the 100 years thing is a valid comment really. Things have changed with EV's from the point of view that we are now charging at home and on the street and "filling up" takes alot longer. The previous 100 years dont apply anymore.

If there were separate ports for AC and DC then it would be valid but they are not so its a catch-22 issue... fix it for AC and you make it harder for DC and vice versa.

The problem really is that the industry has not standardised on most of the things around charging.... protocols, port locations, charger orientation.

Alot of people will be driving directly up to their home charge point and so its better to have it at the front or the front-side in that case.

I think the eTron has got it right (or almost). They put a charge port on both sides at the front.

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

Still the same layout as at the very start of EVs I see. For cars with the charger at the optimal location (exactly the same as where we have established over the last 100 years where the optimal location of the petrol / diesel fill cap is) you can't reach with the cable if the left of the two parking spaces is taken, no matter what way you'd park* :rolleyes:

* unless at least 3 spaces to the right of the occupied space are free, I have done this method several times

@Kramer - in your case I would probably just have waited on Kona. Surely they would be finished and moved on within 45 minutes because of the overstay penalties? If not, then those penalties aren't stiff enough.

Forgive my lack of knowledge but why would the front of the car like the Leaf or Zoe not be considered the optimal location - makes perfect sense to me, especially for rapid charging. I also don't like the idea of an AC cable hanging high up and out the side of a car while at home, I just know one of the kids are gonna run/cycle or smash something off it. The port at the side was obviously there so you could fill a car with petrol, so that hardly holds true for BEVs?

I can see why Tesla put it in the same location as a fossil car - if you're going to cater for the American market then you better put it where they expect it to be, sticking at the front would be a step too far. This is the market where the car manufacturers had to keep putting in cassette players when the format was long dead elsewhere in the world!

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I've paid the penalty a couple of times now. Intentionally, as there were no HPC on my route and we only wanted one stop for lunch

I can understand where you're coming from. Rather relax and enjoy your lunch for an hour or so, instead of stressing out over a fiver in overstay penalties. I don't blame you!

It does indicate that we should up that penalty to maybe twenty or thirty quid. Bet you would have interrupted your lunch then, to disconnect the charger and move the car.

KCross wrote: »

The problem really is that the industry has not standardised on most of the things around charging.... protocols, port locations, charger orientation.

Indeed. But looking at best practice in more advanced countries where more and more EV owners do not have home or work charging (like Norway or the Netherlands), you can see that fast charging stations have mostly adopted the good old petrol station filling layout. You would have thought that of the thousands and thousands of people working for the ESB, at least one or two of them would be aware of these developments. And perhaps follow their leadership and best practice. Rather than just keep doing what they did 10 years ago.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I can understand where you're coming from. Rather relax and enjoy your lunch for an hour or so, instead of stressing out over a fiver in overstay penalties. I don't blame you!

It does indicate that we should up that penalty to maybe twenty or thirty quid. Bet you would have interrupted your lunch then, to disconnect the charger and move the car.
.

See it depends. Do ecars want people like me to keep charging and pay the penalty, or move on, and risk the resource being left empty and not generating any revenue. Considering I'm likely still charging at the max output of the charger, it doesnt benefit them if I move on.

It's a disincentive, the 5 euro fee. Something like 20 quid would be a deterrent. I'd suggest that ecars would prefer the disincentive rather than the deterrent.

unkel

Orebro wrote: »

I can see why Tesla put it in the same location as a fossil car - if you're going to cater for the American market then you better put it where they expect it to be, sticking at the front would be a step too far. This is the market where the car manufacturers had to keep putting in cassette players when the format was long dead elsewhere in the world!

I only hope you are joking

Tesla buyers are so backwards that you have to make the car fit to whatever things they are used to from their previous cars?

Maybe Musk should forget about self driving and concentrate on putting in more cassette players then

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Indeed. But looking at best practice in more advanced countries where more and more EV owners do not have home or work charging (like Norway or the Netherlands), you can see that fast charging stations have mostly adopted the good old petrol station filling layout.

Yea, all the large Norway systems (Ionity and Tesla) seem to be laid out like petrol stations alright and that makes sense in that scenario (regardless of where the port is on the car) as its harder from a real estate perspective to get 20, 30, 40 rapids in a row.

But they also still have alot of rapids that you drive up to in Norway too.

Ionity and Tesla dont even seem to be consistent in their approach here in Ireland, as they have newly installed chargers you drive up to.

No simple solution to it. If you have the space lay it out like a petrol station but the charge port location on the car is really what they need to standardise/fix.

eTron's idea is best in class so far from what I can see.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Yea, all the large Norway systems (Ionity and Tesla) seem to be laid out like petrol stations alright and that makes sense in that scenario (regardless of where the port is on the car) as its harder from a real estate perspective to get 20, 30, 40 rapids in a row.

But they also still have alot of rapids that you drive up to in Norway too.

Ionity and Tesla dont even seem to be consistent in their approach here in Ireland, as they have newly installed chargers you drive up to.

No simply solution to it. If you have the space lay it out like a petrol station but the charge port location on the car is really what they need to standardise/fix.

eTron's idea is best in class so far from what I can see.

Etron has one DC port, which is too far back from the front and too far forward from the back.

The two AC ports work well as an idea.

MJohnston

Here's the thing about front-facing ports — you can still reach them with a traditionally laid out petrol pump-style charger placement. But it's a lot more difficult to reach back-right or back-left ports with a charger placed at the front of a parking space.

It's truly idiotic that ESB keep placing their charging stations like this.