nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Ridiculous short interval at traffic lights

davindub

I just want guage how widespread this problem is, but over the last few months, traffic lights sequence in north dublin city (Beaumount, Santry) has changed. Some lights are only green for a brief second on major roads and it means only 2 cars get out at a time.

Anyone else experienced this in other areas?

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

magicbastarder

ah, the old jealousy argument. says more about the person making the claim than it does about who they're making the claim against.

FitzElla

I also thought the reduced traffic volumes during the lockdown had messed up the sensors but reading this thread has been interesting. Several sets of lights I go through barley let 2 cars through now. The fact so many people check their phone at lights doesn't help either, the light can be green for a bit before some people get moving.

I agree with getting people to move from cars to other transport, but will the changes to lights not massively impact Dublin Bus? From what I remember they carry the majority of public transport users in Dublin. How do they expect people to switch to the bus when it is getting slower?

LeinsterDub

FitzElla wrote: »

I also thought the reduced traffic volumes during the lockdown had messed up the sensors but reading this thread has been interesting. Several sets of lights I go through barley let 2 cars through now. The fact so many people check their phone at lights doesn't help either, the light can be green for a bit before some people get moving.

I agree with getting people to move from cars to other transport, but will the changes to lights not massively impact Dublin Bus? From what I remember they carry the majority of public transport users in Dublin. How do they expect people to switch to the bus when it is getting slower?

Lights are basically the bottom of the list for buses.
It goes in my opinion.
Cars in bus lanes
Dwell time
Rambling routes
Excessive number of stop
Traffic lights

FitzElla

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Lights are basically the bottom of the list for buses.
It goes in my opinion.
Cars in bus lanes
Dwell time
Rambling routes
Excessive number of stop
Traffic lights

True, but where there is no bus lane the effect of slowing down traffic directly impacts on buses. Also drivers get frustrated at short change lights and start blocking junctions, using bus lanes and generally create more congestion for buses to navigate. Coupled with little to no enforcement of red lights, yellow box junctions or bus lanes, it is a free for all out there.

Fiddling with the light sequence in the absence of real enforcement and a real effort to improve the alternatives (bus mainly) only makes everyone's journey worse. When the schools go back in September the city is going to grind to a halt.

LeinsterDub

FitzElla wrote: »

True, but where there is no bus lane the effect of slowing down traffic directly impacts on buses. Also drivers get frustrated at short change lights and start blocking junctions, using bus lanes and generally create more congestion for buses to navigate. Coupled with little to no enforcement of red lights, yellow box junctions or bus lanes, it is a free for all out there.

Fiddling with the light sequence in the absence of real enforcement and a real effort to improve the alternatives (bus mainly) only makes everyone's journey worse. When the schools go back in September the city is going to grind to a halt.

So because motorist will break the law we should just give them what they want? We already tried that and it failed. Cycling and walking are real alternatives regardless of the fact you seem to think they aren't. Hopefully with a new government ANPR isn't too far away now

FitzElla

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So because motorist will break the law we should just give them what they want? We already tried that and it failed. Cycling and walking are real alternatives regardless of the fact you seem to think they aren't. Hopefully with a new government ANPR isn't too far away now

I never mentioned walking or cycling at all. I think they are the ideal alternatives for those who have that option. What about the 1000's who commute from beyond the M50 - north county Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow? For many of those they will be on a bus. The bus that will be stuck in the new traffic caused by changing the lights. I think that the decision to change the lights in the absence of better enforcement or engineering more priority for buses at junctions is shortsighted and will make many bus users commutes longer without changing the numbers of drivers on the road.

Truthvader

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No it hasn't. The number of cars has sky rocketed. Up nearly 100% in 30 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/452305/ireland-number-of-registered-passenger-cars/#:~:text=Registered%20passenger%20cars%20in%20Ireland%201990-2017&text=In%202017%2C%20the%20number%20of,approximately%20two%20million%20registered%20vehicles.

You've dismissed cycling and public transport. Not many alternatives left for you is there?

Cars up 100% according to you. Parking and road space artificially reduced over 30 years. What result were you expecting?

How about cars up !00% Road space and parking up 100%?

The only answer you get here is the sad, spiteful bicycle crowd repeating that "it wont work" plus the cheering for the continuation of DCC's malicious campaign.

I don't commute myself (sorry lads) but have watched this going on year after year. Actually met DCC Traffic Department about 20 years ago. Even then all were bicycle loons with no other agenda.

As I have posted before the solution is an underground but they will not consider that on any account as it does not meet the primary goal (as evidenced here) to "get" motorists

LeinsterDub

FitzElla wrote: »

I never mentioned walking or cycling at all. I think they are the ideal alternatives for those who have that option. What about the 1000's who commute from beyond the M50 - north county Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow? For many of those they will be on a bus. The bus that will be stuck in the new traffic caused by changing the lights. I think that the decision to change the lights in the absence of better enforcement or engineering more priority for buses at junctions is shortsighted and will make many bus users commutes longer without changing the numbers of drivers on the road.

Enforcement of Bus Lanes will save as much time if not more than lost at lights. We need ANPR now

markpb

Truthvader wrote: »

How about cars up !00% Road space and parking up 100%?

Car usage is up in Ireland. Car usage in Dublin city centre is down every year for the last decade. If you look at the number of people instead of the number of vehicles, car usage makes up a tiny proportion of the traffic inside the city centre. And yet car lanes (aside from bus lanes) make up the largest proportion of the road space.

If you're saying that increasing road space to accommodate extra cars is a good solution, you have been proven wrong repeatedly by history, not just here but in every other city. You can live in your own bizarre little world where everyone who disagrees with you is sad, spiteful or a bicycle loon but that says more about you than it does about anyone else.

Also, the conspiracy theory that DCC don't want a metro is a wonderful invention. DCC couldn't ever pay for a metro, that will be done by central government through TII/NTA. On the other hand, central government has very little say in the timing of traffic lights, that's done by DCC. I suppose you could suggest that they're scheming together to get you but then you'd have to ignore the billions of euros put into road building and maintenance over the last twenty years. It's a bit odd to spend that kind of money building roads if you hate cyclists.

trellheim

the amount of twaddle here trying to argue against what is increased safety for pedestrians is unreal. Stand at any busy traffic lights in Dublin and watch the red light jumpers, in many cases across green pedestrian lights. And you are wondering why they get increased time ?

Zero sympathy whatsoever should be seven points on the license for jumping ambers and reds

Lockheed

There are a few awful traffic lights like this in and around Navan. On the driving test route no less. You slow down to approach the junction and the lights go from red to green back to red by the time you've made it there. Makes progression very difficult as you try to judge the lights when really, you should be making sure there is no traffic in your blindspot and ahead of you on the approach to the junction. I get that the point is to make people more cautious but in a way it actually makes driving more dangerous as its another un needed variable you have to account for in a situation where you need to be on top of all traffic around you and ahead of you. I hate the gamble of whether I keep my speed up to progress or just slow down to avoid having to slam on the brakes.

LeinsterDub

Truthvader wrote: »

Cars up 100% according to you.

No according to the CSO not me .

Truthvader wrote: »

Parking and road space artificially reduced over 30 years. What result were you expecting?

If memory serves the following have been built in the last 30 years
M50 and all the motorways that feed into it
M50 and all the motorways that feed into it upgrade
1000's of KM's roads around housing estates
Underground parking at most new builds in town
Jervis St car park
1000's of KM's of road widening and slip corners

Versus
Several 100 km of bus lanes that cars constantly abuse
10's of km for luas
Several 100 km of cycle lanes that cars constantly abuse

Truthvader wrote: »

How about cars up !00% Road space and parking up 100%?

Your basically calling for Dublin to be bulldozed so

Truthvader wrote: »

The only answer you get here is the sad, spiteful bicycle crowd

What the hell is the spiteful bike crowd ?

Truthvader wrote: »

repeating that "it wont work" plus the cheering for the continuation of DCC's malicious campaign.

Not 'it won't work' , it hasn't worked.

Truthvader wrote: »

As I have posted before the solution is an underground but they will not consider that on any account as it does not meet the primary goal (as evidenced here) to "get" motorists

You mean this https://www.metrolink.ie/#/home

magicbastarder

trellheim wrote: »

the amount of twaddle here trying to argue against what is increased safety for pedestrians is unreal. Stand at any busy traffic lights in Dublin and watch the red light jumpers, in many cases across green pedestrian lights. And you are wondering why they get increased time ?

Zero sympathy whatsoever should be seven points on the license for jumping ambers and reds

that's a different issue though. total lack of enforcement, and length of light sequences, are different issues.

ahnowbrowncow

To me it llooks like DCC are deliberately slowing an already painfully slow public transport system for very little gain.

There are far more roads without bus lanes than those with bus lanes in Dublin so the traffic light sequence has a much bigger impact on buses than cars illegally using bus lanes. Plus I'd be interested in seeing stats on illegal bus lane use and the impact of it in Dublin, aside from triggering indiviuals, but I'm nothing really seeing the relevance of it in this conversation anyway.

Quackster

Truthvader wrote: »

The capacity has been deliberately and artificially reduced. Check out all the cheerleaders here and the level of jealousy and spite informing their posts. The agenda is not to promote alternatives but to drag everyone down to the level of bicycles/CIE they are stuck with

Jealousy and spite at what exactly..??

I am a car owner and I absolutely applaud what DCC is doing.

LeinsterDub

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

but I'm nothing really seeing the relevance of it in this conversation anyway.

Pre-covid: Bus is stuck behind a line of cars illegally using the bus lane , has to wait for 3 or 4 set sequences to get through.

Post-covid (hopefully): Enforce the bus lanes , bus has to wait slightly longer for lights to change but gets out on the 1st sequence

ahnowbrowncow

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Pre-covid: Bus is stuck behind a line of cars illegally using the bus lane , has to wait for 3 or 4 set sequences to get through.

Post-covid (hopefully): Enforce the bus lanes , bus has to wait slightly longer for lights to change but gets out on the 1st sequence

Except that the majority of roads don't have bus lanes and they're sitting waiting on traffic lights to change with all the other vehicles. Plus many bus lanes often merge with normal traffic and have to wait for another couple of light sequences to get through so buses are yet again badly affected by this change.

I haven't seen a bus miss numerous lights because of so many cars illegally using a bus lane. Taxi drivers and parked vehicles are a bigger issue for buses so I don't believe there would be a big difference with 100% enforcement. I'm happy to be proven wrong with research and statistics.

markpb

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I haven't seen a bus miss numerous lights because of so many cars illegally using a bus lane.

DCC had to cordon off almost 500m of bus lane at N1/Collins Ave junction because so many cars were blocking it. Anecdotes are wonderful things.

LeinsterDub

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Except that the majority of roads don't have bus lanes and they're sitting waiting on traffic lights to change with all the other vehicles. Plus many bus lanes often merge with normal traffic and have to wait for another couple of light sequences to get through so buses are yet again badly affected by this change.

I haven't seen a bus miss numerous lights because of so many cars illegally using a bus lane. Taxi drivers and parked vehicles are a bigger issue for buses so I don't believe there would be a big difference with 100% enforcement. I'm happy to be proven wrong with research and statistics.

Nothing is perfect but it's a start
I see it all the time. Can't find any research at the moment but I know the NTA consider this a major problem, partly BusConnects is designed to fix the problem. DCC have installed bollards at numerous locations to help with this problem.

LeinsterDub

markpb wrote: »

DCC had to cordon off almost 500m of bus lane at N1/Collins Ave junction because so many cars were blocking it. Anecdotes are wonderful things.

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1279838828572917761?s=20

Just this week

https://dublininquirer.com/2020/03/04/misuse-of-bus-lanes-by-drivers-of-cars-could-badly-hamper-proposed-busconnects-network

https://labourforeurope.ie/news/2019/11/12/gridlock-traffic-cameras-needed-in-bus-lanes/

donvito99

Truthvader wrote: »

The capacity has been deliberately and artificially reduced. Check out all the cheerleaders here and the level of jealousy and spite informing their posts. The agenda is not to promote alternatives but to drag everyone down to the level of bicycles/CIE they are stuck with

And private cars don't drag down bus reliability/journey times? Ha.

beauf

The change in timings caused lots of tailbacks even with light traffic at some local bottlenecks near me. Heard people complaining in local and social media.

I didn't notice personally as I rarely drive though them and WFH hardly driving anyway.

In fact its quite strange with traffic still being light how often you hit a queue lately, and not peak times either.

The time to try all this stuff is certainly now. But the main thing causing a difference is WFH and lots of places being closed. So it's not a true test of anything. They should be promoting staggered hours and more WFH.

I suspect once things reopen they'll go back to peak time again.

markpb

beauf wrote: »

In fact its quite strange with traffic still being light how often you hit a queue lately, and not peak times either.

Traffic is not light, that’s a misconception held by people who are WFH. TII traffic counters show volumes increasing since mid-April and by mid May they were back to 50% so they’re well on the way to recovery by now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/significantly-higher-traffic-volumes-on-some-roads-figures-show-1.4256172

For example, last week traffic count on the M50 between N4 and N7 was 131k. The same week last year was 167k.

beauf

50% of normal volumes is light no?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/car-hgv-traffic-returns-to-pre-covid-levels-amid-slower-recovery-on-public-transport-1.4295467

The point is there are queues off peak where normally there aren't even during peak, or at least not as bad.

LeinsterDub

beauf wrote: »

50% of normal volumes is light no?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/car-hgv-traffic-returns-to-pre-covid-levels-amid-slower-recovery-on-public-transport-1.4295467

The point is there are queues off peak where normally there aren't even during peak, or at least not as bad.

The nature of traffic has changed. Cars moving at different times and to different locations

Ben D Bus

Truthvader wrote: »

The agenda is not to promote alternatives but to drag everyone down to the level of bicycles/CIE they are stuck with

I have to challenge the assertion that cycling and public transport are in some way levels below the private car.

I feel they are actually superior as they are more efficient, environmentally friendly, socially responsible, eaglitarian, and generally make for a more pleasant city.

punisher5112

With Chu as lord mayor I can only see things getting much worse....

davindub

markpb wrote: »

DCC had to cordon off almost 500m of bus lane at N1/Collins Ave junction because so many cars were blocking it. Anecdotes are wonderful things.

The cordoned off area is just used as a rat run for cars to skip the queue now.

These things are great if they are only used by the buses but between taxis and queue jumpers who wont let cars turn left, it is a bit of a bottle neck..

markpb

punisher5112 wrote: »

With Chu as lord mayor I can only see things getting much worse....

The Lord Mayor has very little power. If she was Chief Exec, you might have some cause for concern.

LeinsterDub

punisher5112 wrote: »

With Chu as lord mayor I can only see things getting much worse....

I've a carton of milk that has more power than the lord mayor