nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Gem

Pharmabud

Hi all,

I wonder could you help me clarify something.

I’m wondering about eligibility for GEM.

I studied animal science in UCD and got a 2.2 honours degree and went on to study pharmacy at RCSI. I came top of my class with a 1.1 degree in pharmacy. I did my intern training in a large teaching hospital and now would like to consider medicine as a career.

After reading through GEM requirements it states that you need a 2.1 honours or above in your “first” degree.

Does this mean, despite my first class honours pharmacy degree and clinical pharmacy experience, I am ineligible to apply for GEM because my first degree was a 2.2 in animal science ?

Thank you for your help on it.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Confused_!

Pharmabud wrote: »

Hi all,

I wonder could you help me clarify something.

I’m wondering about eligibility for GEM.

I studied animal science in UCD and got a 2.2 honours degree and went on to study pharmacy at RCSI. I came top of my class with a 1.1 degree in pharmacy. I did my intern training in a large teaching hospital and now would like to consider medicine as a career.

After reading through GEM requirements it states that you need a 2.1 honours or above in your “first” degree.

Does this mean, despite my first class honours pharmacy degree and clinical pharmacy experience, I am ineligible to apply for GEM because my first degree was a 2.2 in animal science ?

Thank you for your help on it.

Hi Pharmabud, from what I gathered at the UL open day this year, I think your first degree makes you ineligible for GEM. They reiterated a few times that the 2:1 requirement applies to your first degree only and that having a second degree with a 2:1/1:1 does not change this. It seems like such a harsh rule, especially for cases like yours!
You should definitely still be eligible (and probably a very good candidate with 1:1 in pharmacy) to apply as a mature student to undergrad medicine though! It would take the extra year to complete but still an option!

Pharmabud

Thanks very much for the reply, much appreciated.

I understand there has to be hard and fast rules but I echo your sentiments, it seems very harsh in my case especially given all the clinical experience on top of my degree.

So my only option is sit HPAT and hope I get high eboigh mark to be shortlisted for submitting personal statement etc and mature student interview ?

You seem to think I’d have a good chance ? I haven’t a wonderful leaving cert, I had an accident in my leaving cert year so my progress to being a pharmacist etc was just hard work since then. Would leaving cert of less than 400 points be against me ? Or does the pharmacy degree trump that in an application?

Thanks again, much appreciated

Peek1

Going the mature route is an alright Idea I think as you have some experience, but, If I'm not mistaken, mature entry students will have lots of nurses and other health field specialists with multiple years of experience in hospitals etc. And I also assume that you would rather do a 4 years of med instead 5/6.

Best bet I think is to look at UK. I think you would have a much better chance there as you have a pharma degree, and even though all unis look at the first degree for your 2.1 or above, some accept with a 2.2 or overlook the first degree. Off the top of my head I know Nottingham accepts 2.2

Also, I assume your pharma degree is an undergrad degree and not masters? If that's not the case you can also look at St Georges London as I think they overlook your first degree in the case that you have a masters, which only requires a pass to qualify.

Also, the gamsat points for these are quite similar to Ireland and in general, their courses are cheaper with MUCH MUCH better funding opportunities.
The difficulty is then with interviews and experience as they expect you have worked and volunteered for a few weeks at different "health" related fields... which might not be a bad thing.

If youre certain on medicine, then there are ways to get in with a 2.2, and imo mature student route is the most difficult as you cant get "years" of experience just like that. Unfortunatley, Ireland is very rigid and does not look past the fact that you have 2.2 when you were 21 instead of looking at first degree in a science/medical related course.

There might be more UK unis, or even other European (id only recommend Italy or Poland tho), you just need to do some research.

Let me know if you have questions.

Pharmabud

Thanks a million for this.

Can anyone see the requirement for 2.1 in your first degree changing at any stage ?

Flimsy_Boat

Pharmabud wrote: »

Thanks a million for this.

Can anyone see the requirement for 2.1 in your first degree changing at any stage ?

Unfortunately there have been no indications it will change.

The UK route and HPAT are your best options.

Iscreamkone

If you are applying to the UK you could just not mention your first degree and only use your Pharmacy degree. I don't see how they could ever check you out. Same for Ireland unless you are applying to the same university that you graduated from initially.

Pharmabud

I’d find it hard to see how they wouldn’t know there’s 4 years of ones life missing ? Maybe I’m completely wrong. I suppose with GEM there’s no interview process etc. How do they know what is your first degree etc ?

Iscreamkone

Pharmabud wrote: »

I’d find it hard to see how they wouldn’t know there’s 4 years of ones life missing ? Maybe I’m completely wrong. I suppose with GEM there’s no interview process etc. How do they know what is your first degree etc ?

Not many people have two Level 8 degrees. I don't imagine anyone would assume you have two unless you tell them. I don't know how they could even check this without breaking some GDPR rules. Interesting one.

Flimsy_Boat

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Not many people have two Level 8 degrees. I don't imagine anyone would assume you have two unless you tell them. I don't know how they could even check this without breaking some GDPR rules. Interesting one.

What you are advising is extremely unethical and could endanger the OPs licence in the future. Admission is conditional and revocable if gained fraudulently.

For what it's worth, I transferred to a different university at one point in my academic career and was specifically asked to demonstrate that I did not have two level 8 degrees. It was the reason I was deemed ineligible by the CAO and I successfully appealed it, as I don't in fact have two degrees.

humboldt

Surely the CAO has a record of you applying for both your degrees? I sympathise with you though. It's a stupid rule that anyone would be tempted to break.

Iscreamkone

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

What you are advising is extremely unethical and could endanger the OPs licence in the future. Admission is conditional and revocable if gained fraudulently.

For what it's worth, I transferred to a different university at one point in my academic career and was specifically asked to demonstrate that I did not have two level 8 degrees. It was the reason I was deemed ineligible by the CAO and I successfully appealed it, as I don't in fact have two degrees.

I'm only playing devil's advocate here and not advising anything illegal.
I certainly do not think it could endanger the OPs future licence in any way though. If you are not caught at admission I can't see how or who would be checking afterwards. Still, it's best to go the straight route.

If it's not really enforceable shouldn't the powers that be look at changing the rule. Any 2.1 or Level 9 degree should be acceptable.

Iscreamkone

humboldt wrote: »

Surely the CAO has a record of you applying for both your degrees? I sympathise with you though. It's a stupid rule that anyone would be tempted to break.

The CAO would only have a record of application and not of completion?

humboldt

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The CAO would only have a record of application and not of completion?

Good point, although that alone could be a red flag that they would look in to.

Iscreamkone

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

What you are advising is extremely unethical and could endanger the OPs licence in the future. Admission is conditional and revocable if gained fraudulently.

For what it's worth, I transferred to a different university at one point in my academic career and was specifically asked to demonstrate that I did not have two level 8 degrees. It was the reason I was deemed ineligible by the CAO and I successfully appealed it, as I don't in fact have two degrees.

How did you prove that you didn't have two degrees?
It's like trying to prove that god doesn't exist?

Flimsy_Boat

Iscreamkone wrote: »

How did you prove that you didn't have two degrees?
It's like trying to prove that god doesn't exist?

You compare the transcripts and look at the dates, and conclude that it would have been impossible to gain two degrees in the given timeframe. They needed that clarification in writing from the applicant, I suppose.

Pharmabud

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I'm only playing devil's advocate here and not advising anything illegal.
I certainly do not think it could endanger the OPs future licence in any way though. If you are not caught at admission I can't see how or who would be checking afterwards. Still, it's best to go the straight route.

If it's not really enforceable shouldn't the powers that be look at changing the rule. Any 2.1 or Level 9 degree should be acceptable.

I hear what you’re saying and this is a terribly stupid rule considering people’s different set of circumstances etc. I don’t think changing anything that might end up in having your admission revoked would be worth it firstly . And to be fair, a large part of being a doctor is to be ethical and operate within the rules. However, I can’t explain my frustration on this given my clinical experience, research background and the fact I actually have a first class honours degree in a degree quite closely related to medicine itself.

Thanks for all your replies

PlumBella28

Pharmabud wrote: »

I hear what you’re saying and this is a terribly stupid rule considering people’s different set of circumstances etc. I don’t think changing anything that might end up in having your admission revoked would be worth it firstly . And to be fair, a large part of being a doctor is to be ethical and operate within the rules. However, I can’t explain my frustration on this given my clinical experience, research background and the fact I actually have a first class honours degree in a degree quite closely related to medicine itself.

Thanks for all your replies

I completely agree, I would be afraid that they could revoke your acceptance if it ever came forward.

I do think you should look into the mature entry pathway. RCSI offer 15 places
TCD 8
NUIG 7/8
Unsure about Cork.

RCSI and TCD don’t rely too much on the HPAT. With your background, and clinical experience you would definitely have a huge chance of being accepted. Even though it’s an additional year (5 year programme compared to 4) it’s better than relocating to a different country and having issues returning to Ireland for training schemes.

NiceMedBoy

Pharmabud wrote: »

Hi all,

I wonder could you help me clarify something.

I’m wondering about eligibility for GEM.

I studied animal science in UCD and got a 2.2 honours degree and went on to study pharmacy at RCSI. I came top of my class with a 1.1 degree in pharmacy. I did my intern training in a large teaching hospital and now would like to consider medicine as a career.

After reading through GEM requirements it states that you need a 2.1 honours or above in your “first” degree.

Does this mean, despite my first class honours pharmacy degree and clinical pharmacy experience, I am ineligible to apply for GEM because my first degree was a 2.2 in animal science ?

Thank you for your help on it.

Hey, I would email the schools directly and ask. I actually believe you will be able to apply and get in. It's no harm shooting them an email and seeing what they think.

Pharmabud

PlumBella28 wrote: »

I completely agree, I would be afraid that they could revoke your acceptance if it ever came forward.

I do think you should look into the mature entry pathway. RCSI offer 15 places
TCD 8
NUIG 7/8
Unsure about Cork.

RCSI and TCD don’t rely too much on the HPAT. With your background, and clinical experience you would definitely have a huge chance of being accepted. Even though it’s an additional year (5 year programme compared to 4) it’s better than relocating to a different country and having issues returning to Ireland for training schemes.

Thanks for your help. When you say they don’t rely too much on HPAT do you mean they don’t necessarily take the highest applicants ? I presume they would have a minimum cut off etc?

PlumBella28

Pharmabud wrote: »

Thanks for your help. When you say they don’t rely too much on HPAT do you mean they don’t necessarily take the highest applicants ? I presume they would have a minimum cut off etc?

RCSI’s cut of this year was 134. You’re then asked to submit documents.

TCD never disclose their cut off, but it’s mostly used for when they are stuck between who to interview they will look at HPAT then.

Nuig only interview the highest scoring applicants.

ERpunk

Unfortuneately through experience, you are deemed ineligible unless you provide proof that you did not complete level 8 offers accepted through CAO. Proof in the form of a letter stating such from the registry department of the institution.

CopperTone1

PlumBella28 wrote: »

RCSI’s cut of this year was 134. You’re then asked to submit documents.

TCD never disclose their cut off, but it’s mostly used for when they are stuck between who to interview they will look at HPAT then.

Nuig only interview the highest scoring applicants.

You can Dm me if you want to ask about the mature entry process to medicine.

Iscreamkone

Some courses now run directly to Level 9. Engineering now gives a Level 9 ME after 5 years (with an opt out at Level 8 BE after 4 years - but the decision to finish with a Level 8 or 9 must be made after Year 3, I think).
Pharmacy also gives the MPharm after 5 years. It is very common in the UK for degrees to run straight through to a Masters degree.

Which result is counted for GEM? Year 4 result (without a degree award) or Year 5 (Level 9)?