[Deleted User] wrote: » Completely agree. Actually, Native American Indians are the poorest group in America, and once you factor in those who are employed in the service industry but still needing help with poverty, whites are actually still the largest group. Which makes sense due to population, but it's important to consider that Black communities aren't alone with these problems. Racial problems exist for many groups, but so too do other social/cultural concerns for subgroups in America Well I didn't include native Americans because they are less than 1 percent of the population. Also the main talking point at the moment is a out BLM. Obviously there are numerically many more white Americans that are poorer than the average considering they make up between 66 and 75 percent of the population.
Sinzo wrote: » Well I do agree that everyone has to take responsibility.. the white AND the black community both have to look at themselves. The State has to lead the way, afterall, it has to perform objectively on behalf of all citizens. The blacks need to look at the deterioration of their family units, lack of positive adult male influence and a significant overrepresntation in crime.
However, poverty is a major determinant of crime. Blacks are the poorest group in America. Are blacks the poorest group because of their higher prorata participation in crime or has poverty and disenfranchisement led them to crime.
As always, imo, the truth is a combination of factors. The media; CNN and NBC on one side and Fox on the other, has become predominanyly partisan in their reporting. This has heightened tensions even more. A balanced approach is required in order to find a solution.
[Deleted User] wrote: » It's just going to produce a force that is less capable of dealing with the problems that arise. I understand the need for reform within the police. They definitely need it. However, I feel that the police have changed to reflect the environment that they face. However, the movement ignores/dismisses other causes for the trouble. And that is the high incident rate of black crime. Even if we were to assume that half of all Black 'crime' happens because of racial profiling and police racism, the remainder is disproportionate to the actual size of the population compared with other ethnic groups (apart from the Hispanic population). For real change to occur, there needs to be more than just focus on the Police, but hard questions being asked by the Black community about their own behavior, and attitudes. I've seen no interest in removing firearms from black communities, or breaking up the gangs... gangs which have been rather prominent throughout Chaz/CHOP, with real firepower. There's just too much willingness to ignore/dismiss the Black peoples responsibility in all of this and focus entirely on the Police. Change within the police would be a good thing, but it's not the only thing that needs changing.
Sinzo wrote: » I agree with a lot of what you say. But the police has to have a root and branch reform of how militarised it has become, retrain officers to become less authoritarian in their approach to enforcement and weed those candidates that are not mentally fit enough to perform the role. This is more important than ever after the events of the past few months..
Danzy wrote: » One outcome from the BLM protests will be a lot more dead black people, a lot more crime in black areas, less jobs, less services. Large swathes of businesses in African American communities were burnt out and looted and won't be back. Less jobs, less services. Not only is it dangerous now for police officers to defend their life but even normal policing can lead to political leadership and media hammering you nevermind the risk of a riot. It is now career suicide to police black areas and it is political suicide in these Democratic run cities to increase policing in areas that are so violent and crime ridden that they are akin to cities in failed countries.
joe40 wrote: » Black people themselves can choose what to be outraged about and that is exactly what they're doing. You don't you need to suggest anything. I fully accept millions of white Americans don't agree with everything BLM say nor do I for that matter. Abolish the Police for example is a stupid idea. But millions do support the idea of a fairer society with better policing etc. and millions accept this is not the case at the moment. The polling numbers for Joe Biden at the moment are very strong, and he has supported these ideas. Also the thousands of white people that took part in the actual protests are proof that my views are not particularly radical, they're shared by plenty of normal Americans. Support for these issues on mainstream media would also indicate fairly popular acceptance/support. I don't claim to speak everyone, obviously there is a wide range of opinion, my point was my views are pretty much mainstream for many Americans. I'm not saying anything that would be considered particularly controversial in America. That is not the same as saying everyone would agree but many would. You can keep repeating all you want about OGs it doesn't make it so.
1800_Ladladlad wrote: » Surely preventative measures would better than the situation escalating to the point where both parties could become injured or result in a fatality. Look at Chaz and the lack of action taken. Relentless "protests" like these only serve one purpose. to antagonize the homeowners, harass, intimidate and provoke them into reacting. Nobody should have to experience this in the safety of their homes. That goes for the mayor Seattle too when the CHOP gang turned up at it. The stance of waiting until a person/s to become injured or fatality wounded, in madness. Especially the couple in question
Deleted User wrote: » Because dealing with mobs is very unpredictable and easily can escalate. Misunderstandings happen on both sides.. (and there's a lot of agendas at play) I suspect the Police don't want to be placed in situations which might give further ammo to those advocating against them.
1800_Ladladlad wrote: » https://twitter.com/BasedPoland/status/1279233631840600065 The McCloskeys became aware of plans that this “protest” was going to happen. Bother them and their attorney had called the st Louis police dept to make them aware of the plans and request help but they refused. Iv read today authorities will be looking for individuals who went on their property without permission that has been captured on their surveillance systems. Why are officials afraid to confront degenerates harassing and intimidating people. What I found to be funny is that they are making a clear effort to stay on their side of fence/gate.
Cupatae wrote: » So i cant suggest black people should be outraged over having a separate anthem to everyone else...they shouldn't be segregated like that as they are as american as the next person. :eek: But you can categorically speak for millions of white Americans? :rolleyes: Joe i didnt think you could top your white privilege OG but bravo! you ve out done yourself this time! :D
joe40 wrote: » No I don't get the jist of anything. You saying black people should be outraged about something, is not related in any way to me saying my views aren't that radical and would be largely supported by millions of white Americans. My statement I can back up, your statement on the other hand is just your own unfounded, rather arrogant, opinion, on what black Americans should be outraged about.
Cupatae wrote: » I could go on but ya get the jist.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Fair enough Joe. Apart from the answer to question 3 and question 1 we are in agreement. Positive discrimination is racism. Tacking on "positive" to the start of it doesn't mask the fact that it is discrimination based on skin colour or ethnicity. The very fact that anyone could see any positive from it because it hinders white people is disgusting. Also, being white in majority black neighborhoods in America, is not a positive thing.
joe40 wrote: » Way to go sir. Sit here on an Irish message board and tell black people in America what they should be outraged about. This is much wider than just the BLM movement.
joe40 wrote: » Q1 just in America, not in Ireland Q2 absolutely not, Q3 depends on the circumstances, but maybe for short periods of time, but too complex to give a short answer. Q4 Again absolutely not. I as a white person don't feel guilty. People are not responsible for the sins of their fathers or fellow countrymen.I honestly haven't say anything to contradict those points, and honestly don't know what people want. The ****ing "Ireland's call" reference was not a serious comment. I stand by absolutely everything else I have said.My views are not particularly radical, millions of white people in the US would largely agree.
joe40 wrote: » Q1 just in America, not in Ireland Q2 absolutely not, Q3 depends on the circumstances, but maybe for short periods of time, but too complex to give a short answer. Q4 Again absolutely not. I as a white person don't feel guilty. People are not responsible for the sins of their fathers or fellow countrymen. I honestly haven't say anything to contradict those points, and honestly don't know what people want. The ****ing "Ireland's call" reference was not a serious comment. I stand by absolutely everything else I have said. My views are not particularly radical, millions of white people in the US would largely agree.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Jesus Joe. I was sticking up for you earlier in this thread. Stand by your statements or don't make them. Do you think that white people have it better than black people? Is that just in America or in Ireland too? Do you think that alienating white people and making them kneel or encouraging segregation of races to be a positive step? Do you believe that positive discrimination is good? Do you feel, as a white person, you should feel responsible to make amends for bad things that historically happened to black people?
joe40 wrote: » I haven't expressed any outrage at all. So where are you going with the "faux outrage" comment.? Your post on the other hand is a simply a rant. Where did I tell people not to have an opinion? That's just nonsense. BTW the "Irelands call" reference was tongue in cheek I know the two are not comparable, not that I have a problem with the NFL decision.
Cupatae wrote: » At the very root of all this is BLM that's just a fact, your damn right this stupidity is spreading further than BLM were now removing words like master , slave ,blacklist, whitening ECT... You have people losing there jobs for saying all lives matter in a text message, you have mobs roaming around destroying shops and property, then you have the likes of urself speaking broadly on behalf of black people , telling people the phrase "white privilege" isn't racist or divisive, and on the other hand telling other people not to have an opinion. . The hypocrisy and nonsense is strong in your posts joe but we already knew that. Your attempt at faux outrage is fairly predictable and lame.
Cupatae wrote: » How is playing a national anthem for one race Abit like Ireland's call ? If anything black people should be outraged that they have a separate national anthem to every other American, are they american or not? BLM is run by stupid people and supported by them. They are litterally doing black people a disservice at this stage.
joe40 wrote: » Bit like playing Ireland's call at the Rugby..
joe40 wrote: » From the newspaper article it looks like it is only for week 1, not for the full season. Bit like playing Ireland's call at the Rugby.. It is obviously a response from the NFL for the lack of support given to Colin Kapernick when he was carrying out peaceful protest during the Anthem. I do agree though it would be better to sort the issues but sow less division. Try to get everyone invested in the political system for real sustainable change. On a slightly side note surely the confederate flags and memorbhalia, are even more divisive. They're literally celebrating a civil war with the United States of America. I could never understand how people can support both. I know way off topic, just something that confuses me.
oyvey wrote: » I would think that should be a concern for everyone here, regardless of what your overall views of BLM are.
1800_Ladladlad wrote: » The NFL plan to play Black national anthem before the first week of games this 2020 season. What is a black national anthem? I didn't even know there was one! I don't see how playing a national anthem of one race would work to mend race relations that was been worsened in the US? Do black Americans not consider themselves to be citizens of the US. This is simply more division. BLM wants equality and inclusion but then accept for separate for their national anthem to be played in the fight for their "cause".
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