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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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WAW

addaword wrote: »

Define peanuts. People have different perspectives of peanuts. The politician from Mayo who famously claimed on the Late Late how difficult it was to run three houses on a salary of 140k or whatever thought he was on peanuts. Some of people on the average public sector income of over 50k probably think 50k is peanuts. Yet many people would love to earn 50 k a year, in a secure pensionable job.

What are you on about? The top point of CO and EO scales don't even reach €50,000! Up until very recently, the EO starting salary ( a managerial position) was about €28k - it is €30k snce last year. The COs started at €23k that's gone up to €24k since pay restoration.

Yes, there are plenty jobs that are at €50k in public sector but loads below it. Unlike the professions in public sector which gain additional allowances for extra qualifications, clerical/administrive positions in CS don't even though a huge amount of COs and EOs have degrees and other qualifications that they are using in their jobs.

addaword

kippy wrote: »

What would you prefer the average public sector salary to be?

In Germany and UK average public sector earnings are close to average private sector earnings, as pointed out before by others. Here they are much higher.

[Deleted User]

kippy wrote: »

Many people would, and many people can, many more cannot. Whats the crux of your argument here?
What would you prefer the average public sector salary to be?

Less than him.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Define peanuts. People have different perspectives of peanuts. The politician from Mayo who famously claimed on the Late Late how difficult it was to run three houses on a salary of 140k or whatever thought he was on peanuts. Some of people on the average public sector income of over 50k probably think 50k is peanuts. Yet many people would love to earn 50 k a year, in a secure pensionable job.

Many people would, and many people can, many more cannot. Whats the crux of your argument here?
What would you prefer the average public sector salary to be?

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

156 pages now addaworld. Fair play, your not afraid of being shamed that's for sure.

Most people would have taken the hint after getting banned from a thread for reposting the same ****e over and over and linking to the same tired article while ignoring valid counter arguments and questions.

Not surprising you attack the poster when you lost the argument.

[Deleted User]

156 pages now addaworld. Fair play, your not afraid of being shamed that's for sure.

Most people would have taken the hint after getting banned from a thread for reposting the same ****e over and over and linking to the same tired article while ignoring valid counter arguments and questions.

addaword

WAW wrote: »

Rank and file public sector workers who make up the majority earn peanuts ...

Define peanuts. People have different perspectives of peanuts. The politician from Mayo who famously claimed on the Late Late how difficult it was to run three houses on a salary of 140k or whatever thought he was on peanuts. Some of people on the average public sector income of over 50k probably think 50k is peanuts. Yet many people would love to earn 50 k a year, in a secure pensionable job.

[Deleted User]

noodler wrote: »

There's a falsehood out there that the national debt pile we accumulated during the crash is down to the bank bailout.

In actual fact, the vast majority of it
, 80%-ish, is the borrowing we undertook 2009-2014 to close the gap between what we take in on tax versus what we spend on salaries, welfare, capital spend etc.

The crash was in 2008. We went broke overnight and needed an immediate bail out. Most of the public funds were flushed into failed private banks which had been cooking the books.

Christ Almighty, the efforts people will go through trying to prove a falsehood

[Deleted User]

cms88 wrote: »

Why then are they regulerly going on strike?

They rarely go on strike.

Some work to rule occasionally, mostly teachers.

Majority of strikes are private sector. Majority of unions are private sector.

Do try and at least read some of the thread old chum, it's already been discussed.

Sinzo

addaword wrote: »

Funny how those whose average salary is a lot higher than the private sector average salary, and who have greater security and a much better pension to look forward to, will say that " Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well".

Reminds me of the politician, who also depends on the taxpayer for his wages, complained about how expensive it was to run three houses.

Add a word,
Can you please tell me what you propose is the "final solution" to the problem of the ubiquitous public service gravy train..
Specifically, should numbers be cut, should pay be reduced and by what percentage ?
Should they all be forced to sell off at least one of their holiday homes each and should they be forced to pay their housekeepers and servants the average industrial wage?

WAW

Rank and file public sector workers who make up the majority earn peanuts like COs and EOs. The money is shockingly bad, barely above minimum wage. Lots of well educated and experienced middle aged workers who lost their jobs due to the recession joined civil service and due to their rules, those workers got zero salary credit for years of experience and qualifications. A significant cohort. And many doing extremely busy, responsible, stressful roles.
Any of entrants in the last number of years will have a pension - to which they contribute - nothing like the so called gold plated pension some of the older public sector workers will get.
Any attempt to broadly compare and contrast public service a d private sector is idiotic because roles differ massively across all levels throughout both sectors.

Vizzy

addaword wrote: »

Funny how those whose average salary is a lot higher than the private sector average salary, and who have greater security and a much better pension to look forward to, will say that " Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well".

Reminds me of the politician, who also depends on the taxpayer for his wages, complained about how expensive it was to run three houses.

I had heard that it is very expensive to run a house up Sligo/Mayo direction.

History Queen

addaword wrote: »

Funny how those whose average salary is a lot higher than the private sector average salary, and who have greater security and a much better pension to look forward to, will say that " Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well".

Reminds me of the politician, who also depends on the taxpayer for his wages, complained about how expensive it was to run three houses.

Not all public sector workers have a much better pension to look forward to. Post 2013 pensions aren't anyway.

addaword

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well.

Funny how those whose average salary is a lot higher than the private sector average salary, and who have greater security and a much better pension to look forward to, will say that " Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well".

Reminds me of the politician, who also depends on the taxpayer for his wages, complained about how expensive it was to run three houses.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

That's because you are better paid, better pensioned and with more security than the private sector. And yet some of you still want a increase and moan if you do not get it.

Rises in the cost of living surprisingly affect us as well.

noodler

SouthWesterly wrote: »

The PS is a very broad church. The last I can see was a threatened strike by the CS in 2009. How many private sector strikes have there been in the last 11 years?

I started 4 years ago. I was taking home 30€ more than social welfare for a family of 4. Take my costs of working out of that and I was worse off working.

There have been alot of sectoral strikes in the public Sector since 2009.

And, obviously, a helluva lot more industrial actions again.

[Deleted User]

cms88 wrote: »

Why then are they regulerly going on strike?

The PS is a very broad church. The last I can see was a threatened strike by the CS in 2009. How many private sector strikes have there been in the last 11 years?

I started 4 years ago. I was taking home 30€ more than social welfare for a family of 4. Take my costs of working out of that and I was worse off working.

addaword

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The public sector ain't moaning

That's because you are better paid, better pensioned and with more security than the private sector. And yet some of you still want a increase and moan if you do not get it.

noodler

Treppen wrote: »

Ya sure, Anglo Irish Bank, TSB, BOI, AIB,110% mortgages with free boat, Property in Bulgaria was all just a Bobby Ewing.
Next you'll be saying it was the Public Sector who stopped Ireland in the 2009 world cup with their handball.

There's a falsehood out there that the national debt pile we accumulated during the crash is down to the bank bailout.

In actual fact, the vast majority of it
, 80%-ish, is the borrowing we undertook 2009-2014 to close the gap between what we take in on tax versus what we spend on salaries, welfare, capital spend etc.

cms88

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Do try and follow the thread lad. The public sector ain't moaning

Why then are they regulerly going on strike?

Sinzo

EndaHonesty wrote: »

http://www.finfacts.ie/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

https://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html

So according to these statistics, the increases in public sector over the period due to general rounds was 24% and Benchmarking was13% = Total of 37%
(In hindsight bench marking was a farce but the private sector was running away with itself too and the cost of living was rising rapidly during those years).

The increase in the average industrial wage for a male worker in the period 2001-2005, was 19%.

Apart from the benchmarking, the general pay increases were not massively greater than the rise in the average industrial wage.

37% is not the same as 60% so exaggeration is being used to make a point.

I would also prefer statistics from the CSO specifically relating to the Rate of Pay rather than General Expenditure as they are very different things and it seems that the statistic quoted above is mixing them together by throwing in an extra 21.6% for "extra numbers" - that's general expenditure and not rate of pay.

Richard Hillman

5.5bn of our annual budget goes to NGOs. A large part of that 5.5bn go to health NGOs and is part of the health budget. If health workers get a pay reduction or pay freeze just to fund the lifestyle choices of the inner circle, there should be blood on the streets.

[Deleted User]

cal naughton wrote: »

www.monster.ie . Looking for a pay increase? There you go lad. Knock yourself out!

Do try and follow the thread lad. The public sector ain't moaning

cal naughton

Scoundrel wrote: »

www.publicjobs.ie there you go lad live the dream.

www.monster.ie . Looking for a pay increase? There you go lad. Knock yourself out!

[Deleted User]

Does this guy not realise that public sector pays more emergency tax?

That builders, developers and banks were all private?

Wow!

Scoundrel

daithi7 wrote: »

Ah come on, you don't really believe this falsehood, do you!?

Benchmarking was just a mechanism used by the PS unions so that gold plated pubic sector workers, who could not lose their job ever, could be paid the same as IT workers who were being a lot at the time. It was a completely opaque process and a total financial own goal by the state.

It lead to the state trying to finance these massive salary & ☆pension☆ increases with one off unsustainable property transaction taxes , which contributed to the whole property bubble and the resultant financial crisis in Ireland.

Since we've been left with PS pay close to 30% higher than equivalent private sector pay, and lunatics in the PS unions constantly screaming for ' pay restoration'. That's asking for restoration to the conditions that helped bankrupt the country in the first place.... but this seems totally lost on these self interested vested interests.

P.s. also if 'restoration' should be a goal, why should the much favoured public sector get pay restoration, while the rest of the work force are still screwed with emergency taxes such as USC , used to pay for this largesse. Imho, there should be no restoration of ps pay without restoration of lower tax levels for all workers..... that might be someway fair.

www.publicjobs.ie there you go lad live the dream.

Treppen

daithi7 wrote: »

Ah come on, you don't really believe this falsehood, do you!?

Benchmarking was just a mechanism used by the PS unions so that gold plated pubic sector workers, who could not lose their job ever, could be paid the same as IT workers who were being a lot at the time. It was a completely opaque process and a total financial own goal by the state.

It lead to the state trying to finance these massive salary & ☆pension☆ increases with one off unsustainable property transaction taxes , which contributed to the whole property Bubble and financial crisis in Ireland.

Since we've been left with PS pay close to 30% higher than equivalent private sector pay, and lunatics in the PS unions constantly screaming for ' pay restoration'. That's asking for restoration to the conditions that helped bankrupt the country in the first place.... but this seems totally lost on these self interested vested interests.

P.s. also if 'restoration' should be a goal, why should the much favoured public sector get pay restoration, while the rest of the work force are still screwed with emergency taxes such as USC , to pay for this largesse. Imho, there should be no restoration of ps pay without restoration of lower tax levels for all workers.....

Ya sure, Anglo Irish Bank, TSB, BOI, AIB,110% mortgages with free boat, Property in Bulgaria was all just a Bobby Ewing.
Next you'll be saying it was the Public Sector who stopped Ireland in the 2009 world cup with their handball.

daithi7

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

....

Those numbers reflect benchmarking kicking in as a result of stagnant public sector pay no longer being able to attract staff compared to the increases being experienced in the private sector since the early 1990s.

By 1995 the building sector had overtaken the civil service in pay and alledged job security. The security being a falsehood in the end.

Ah come on, you don't really believe this falsehood, do you!?

Benchmarking was just a mechanism used by the PS unions so that gold plated pubic sector workers, who could not lose their job ever, could be paid the same as IT workers who were being a lot at the time. It was a completely opaque process and a total financial own goal by the state.

It lead to the state trying to finance these massive salary & ☆pension☆ increases with one off unsustainable property transaction taxes , which contributed to the whole property bubble and the resultant financial crisis in Ireland.

Since we've been left with PS pay close to 30% higher than equivalent private sector pay, and lunatics in the PS unions constantly screaming for ' pay restoration'. That's asking for restoration to the conditions that helped bankrupt the country in the first place.... but this seems totally lost on these self interested vested interests.

P.s. also if 'restoration' should be a goal, why should the much favoured public sector get pay restoration, while the rest of the work force are still screwed with emergency taxes such as USC , used to pay for this largesse. Imho, there should be no restoration of ps pay without restoration of lower tax levels for all workers..... that might be someway fair.

[Deleted User]

Treppen wrote: »

Why the didn't they take out a pension?

Because because because........ The public sector

[Deleted User]

EndaHonesty wrote: »

http://www.finfacts.ie/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

https://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html

Just to point out, the Celtic tiger didn't start in 2000 or 2001.

Those numbers reflect benchmarking kicking in as a result of stagnant public sector pay no longer being able to attract staff compared to the increases being experienced in the private sector since the early 1990s.

By 1995 the building sector had overtaken the civil service in pay and alledged job security. The security being a falsehood in the end.

Anyone that wants to can go to the Celtic tiger thread and read the lunacy that went on. It was not a one sided affair. Public and private got on on the act. At different times though which is why the addaworlds here are very specific in their time period and consistently only refer to one side.