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Stories from the Celtic Tiger Years Mod Warning in OP PLEASE READ

chops018

Does anyone have any good (or bad) stories from the Celtic Tiger years?

You always hear phrases about how people partied etc., was there just a constant flow of credit available to people and people actually taking the money e.g. was there actually teachers on circa €30k a year buying a house and car and an apartment somewhere.

I was in school and college during these years, graduated into the recession, so I didn't really see what was fully going on at the time bar the fact everyone was working and had money. My dad was working on the buildings on great money and my mam was working away also, we were never stuck really money-wise, also rent seemed to be a lot cheaper back then and fuel and also my college fees were only around €800 a year along with wages being fairly similar to what they are now (from what I can remember anyway, will stand corrected if I am wrong)

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partyguinness

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Ehh 60k quoted above as the number in ireland at the time, a little over 1% of the population...not exactly a significant portion.
You know irish people lost their jobs too right? And they stopped renting & buying properties.

A significant portion of the rental market. We are not talking about the overal population.

I am sure you are aware that Eastern Europe is not just Poland. Poland along with 7 other former Iron Curtain/Eastern European countries joined the EU in 2004. 60k Poles is still 60k more than a few years earlier plus the other countries. Basically the population of another Galway City in 2006.

Also, the 'Pope's Children' generation population spike from 1979/1980 came into the workplace from circa 2000 onwards which was another factor in demand.

It is no co incidence that there was an unsustainable property boom in full flow that peaked in 2005-2007. All sorts of unmentionable vested interests and Government policy fuelled it.

The inflow of Eastern European tenants was a big factor for many Irish people jumping on the bandwagon especially in rural areas i.e. it was going to be the source of income.

Mickiemcfist

partyguinness wrote: »

A significant portion of the rental market in the mid 2000s was dependent on eastern europeans. That demand dried up and/or stagnated.

Ehh 60k quoted above as the number in ireland at the time, a little over 1% of the population...not exactly a significant portion.
You know irish people lost their jobs too right? And they stopped renting & buying properties.

partyguinness

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

It doesn't really matter, the question above was "who was going to pay the mortgage" when they left, turns out they either stayed, or were more than replaced by others who'll pay rent towards the mortgage.

Well it did matter.

Thousands of budding landlords jumped on the buy to let bandwagon buying up all sorts of semi ds in the back of arse of nowhere with the intention of letting them out. That was all well and good when you had a steady and increasing flow of new tenants creating demand to cover the mortgage payments. The future rental income was used by the mortgage providers to assess affordability.

A significant portion of the rental market in the mid 2000s was dependent on eastern europeans. That demand dried up and/or stagnated.

I am sure you have heard of the 'ghost estates' up and down the country. The Cork and Dublin cities will generally hold steady. Not so good if you spent €250k of a shoddy semi d in Tullamore or Ballygobackwards.

Also the country has by and large recovered from the shock in 2007-2010 so comparing the state of play today with 10-13 years ago is not a like for like comparison. The market had to correct itself and a lot of people got burned.

BattleCorp

macscoob wrote: »

I was paid €620 to go to FAS collage in Sligo.....it was savage!

I'm guessing you didn't go.

Mickiemcfist

partyguinness wrote: »

What percentage have taken out a mortgage and bought a property?

And how many of the 2006 population are still in Ireland.

Poland is a big country of about 38m.

It doesn't really matter, the question above was "who was going to pay the mortgage" when they left, turns out they either stayed, or were more than replaced by others who'll pay rent towards the mortgage.

partyguinness

pgj2015 wrote: »

Yet there are 122,515 polish people living in Ireland according to the last census.:rolleyes:

There was 63,300 polish living in Ireland in 2006.

What percentage have taken out a mortgage and bought a property?

And how many of the 2006 population are still in Ireland.

Poland is a big country of about 38m.

macscoob

I was paid €620 to go to FAS collage in Sligo.....it was savage!

cms88

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Yeah, its grand for somebody in their 30s to have their pension in volatile share portfolio's, but not somebody who is about to retire.
I often wonder were they greedy themselves or just really badly advised (I suspect the latter in most cases). I am conscious of the mod's note at this juncture though.

Bit of both i would say. Byt like everything from that time people thought they had nothing to worry about.

CrankyHaus

retalivity wrote: »

Actually thats something that you dont see much of anymore...maybe because it was a celtic tiger thing, or maybe because i am now older and dont go out as much - z-list celebs/band playing/appearing in random irish pubs/hotels/nightclubs.

The Vengaboys did a mini-tour of Donegal 06-07, They played Letterkenny 3 times in the space of a year, as well as a host of other more rural clubs. I remember Jodie Marsh, Some lad for 5ive, and Dr Carl from Neighbours knocking around as well

I think "Influencers" giving your business some shine on the internet has replaced Z-listers showing up.

Ipso

retalivity wrote: »

Actually thats something that you dont see much of anymore...maybe because it was a celtic tiger thing, or maybe because i am now older and dont go out as much - z-list celebs/band playing/appearing in random irish pubs/hotels/nightclubs.

The Vengaboys did a mini-tour of Donegal 06-07, They played Letterkenny 3 times in the space of a year, as well as a host of other more rural clubs. I remember Jodie Marsh, Some lad for 5ive, and Dr Carl from Neighbours knocking around as well

I seem to remember Scooter was supposed to play in the Limelight in Glenties at one point.

PhilOssophy

The Vengaboys, had forgotten all about them.

retalivity

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

I remember Jordan opening a nightclub in Ballinasloe circa 2002.

Actually thats something that you dont see much of anymore...maybe because it was a celtic tiger thing, or maybe because i am now older and dont go out as much - z-list celebs/band playing/appearing in random irish pubs/hotels/nightclubs.

The Vengaboys did a mini-tour of Donegal 06-07, They played Letterkenny 3 times in the space of a year, as well as a host of other more rural clubs. I remember Jodie Marsh, Some lad for 5ive, and Dr Carl from Neighbours knocking around as well

PhilOssophy

Feisar wrote: »

These things always say the value of ones investment may go up or down. People nearing retirement should have their investment in solid stable stocks, not AIB shares. The idea being over the course of a pension one moves from riskier money making shares to more stable items. People thought that growth was going to be exponential.

Yeah, its grand for somebody in their 30s to have their pension in volatile share portfolio's, but not somebody who is about to retire.
I often wonder were they greedy themselves or just really badly advised (I suspect the latter in most cases). I am conscious of the mod's note at this juncture though.

pgj2015

partyguinness wrote: »

Actually during the height of the property boom I remember sitting in front of buy to let buyers and thinking to myself on many occasions:-

"So...what happens when the Poles go home? Who is going to pay the mortgage"

One thing that was glaringly obvious to me mid 2000s was that the Eastern Europeans in general were not putting down roots. In other words, they were not buying property i.e. they had no intention of staying.

Yet there are 122,515 polish people living in Ireland according to the last census.:rolleyes:

There was 63,300 polish living in Ireland in 2006.

Feisar

nthclare wrote: »

Some people are after buying big cars there in January probably pcp of 400 euros a month, living off 350 wss or covid payments, a wife and 3 kids.
How are they going to cope with the lack of fund's to amplify their lives?

PCP is some racket.

Feisar

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I will never understand why there was not a national protest over this. What they did to average working people was criminal and they were voted back in. Anyone who suffered and paid a price after the boom and then voted them back in the last election deserves everything they got.

These things always say the value of ones investment may go up or down. People nearing retirement should have their investment in solid stable stocks, not AIB shares. The idea being over the course of a pension one moves from riskier money making shares to more stable items. People thought that growth was going to be exponential.

nthclare

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I will never understand why there was not a national protest over this. What they did to average working people was criminal and they were voted back in. Anyone who suffered and paid a price after the boom and then voted them back in the last election deserves everything they got.

Like turkeys voting for Christmas

Airyfairy12

Badger2009 wrote: »

I feel most sorry for people who didn’t have buy to let’s or fancy cars but had built up a decent pension (not greedy they just paid into a bog standard pension pot) and pretty much lost it all overnight and are now left with a lot of uncertainty in their retirement. It’s those people who really lost out imo.

I will never understand why there was not a national protest over this. What they did to average working people was criminal and they were voted back in. Anyone who suffered and paid a price after the boom and then voted them back in the last election deserves everything they got.

[Deleted User]

The dot com bubble was early Celtic Tiger and wasn't as ridiculous as the construction side of things, but was still pretty crazy. People thought that once their business was online they would make fortunes because people anywhere could buy the products. It didn't seem to click with them that everyone else everywhere else would be doing the same thing.

nthclare

A young farmer from Clare got 10 million from a developer for farmland and bought it back for a million.

Can anyone remember that couple on TV who bought loads of property in the Europe and there was a big hulabalo about it and their wedding and all was shown, only for them to loose everything...
Telpis, the naivety and innocence of them, and RTE were showcasing this couple as the pinicle of what we should all strive to be.
Champers, beautiful dresses and suits, they must have felt a million dollars only to wake up in 2008 one morning with everything pulled from beneath them.

I remember the ghouls here in Clare, bricks and mortar was the shlang.

I'm a landlord now, how many houses do you have???

Now some are paying for this until they're pushing up the daisies or wherever they end up.

I often wonder why someone people are so blinkered and not think about how their emotional state will cope with such a loss.

Or men and women marrying absolute assholes or ugly people because of social status and financial security.

Where's love in all of this and just having a roof over your head should be enough???

Why are people so clueless, theres a lot of people today who will probably take 3 year's to be where they were 4 months ago and the banks are going to be doing the same thing alll over again and taking people's houses off them or renting them back.

Some people are after buying big cars there in January probably pcp of 400 euros a month, living off 350 wss or covid payments, a wife and 3 kids.
How are they going to cope with the lack of fund's to amplify their lives?

The J Stands for Jay

Badger2009 wrote: »

they just paid into a bog standard pension pot) and pretty much lost it all overnight and are now left with a lot of uncertainty in their retirement. It’s those people who really lost out imo.

So, nobody?

CrankyHaus

Braylee Fat Kicker wrote: »

Anyway, one guy in a particular course was offered €12M for his farm towards the end of the boom for development. As the details of the deal were being ironed out he went to the bank and borrowed money to start up a business based on the promise that he was getting €12M for his farm. Crash came, land deal fell through, his business failed and he ended up in severe debt instead of a multi-millionaire. I can't believe he didn't just focus on pushing the sale through and have that in the bank before borrowing money.

"Accidental millionaires" were some of the funniest cases of the boom. I was told of a couple of middle-class junkie brothers who in middle-age inherited a pile in one of Dublin's nicer suburbs. Inevitably it turned into the place where they and other gearbags would be partying but they let it be known among their circles that they were offered a seven figure sum but wanted to play the long game to maximise value.

More likely they were too busy getting mashed to be bothered with any of the work involved. I don't know eaxactly how it ended but since I was told the stroy as it was ongoing in early 2008 I strongly suspect they never sold before the crash as they were too busy on the sesh. Knowing how junkies take on debt against anticipated windfalls I wouldn't be surprised to find they'd told some tall tales about pots of gold to various dealers around Dublin too.

Mickiemcfist

Badger2009 wrote: »

I feel most sorry for people who didn’t have buy to let’s or fancy cars but had built up a decent pension (not greedy they just paid into a bog standard pension pot) and pretty much lost it all overnight and are now left with a lot of uncertainty in their retirement. It’s those people who really lost out imo.

Yea so true, they weren't the 'speculators' in normal terms, they were doing what's pretty much universally stated as the prudent thing financially & got badly burned.

BattleCorp

Braylee Fat Kicker wrote: »

Anyway, one guy in a particular course was offered €12M for his farm towards the end of the boom for development.

A guy near me was clever enough to sell a large chunk of his farm to a developer for a rather large fortune.

But then the farmer invested it (almost all of it) in Anglo shares.

:(:(

Badger2009

I came out of college in 2008 after finishing an engineering degree. I started a job with a company I had worked summers for.

I took out a 20k loan to buy a brand new car even though I had only just started working and had no credit history. I was crazy taking it and the bank were crazy giving it to me.

I was let go a few months later and started a funded masters which paid the bills while getting an additional qualification.

Moved to London in January 2011 and sold the car to pay off the loan. Moved back in 2015 to a civil service job. Decent pay but could prob do better in private sector at the minute but security is more important to me now.

I’m just glad I didn’t finish college earlier as I would probably have got caught up in the whole thing. The car loan was a lesson learned thankfully.

I feel most sorry for people who didn’t have buy to let’s or fancy cars but had built up a decent pension (not greedy they just paid into a bog standard pension pot) and pretty much lost it all overnight and are now left with a lot of uncertainty in their retirement. It’s those people who really lost out imo.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I graduated in 2005 into the IT industry that was only beginning to recover from the dot-com bubble bursting around 2001.

My father has a great story directly from the person involved. Father was a FAS instructor and at one stage was running basic IT courses for people that were on social welfare, in theory to make them more employable.

Anyway, one guy in a particular course was offered €12M for his farm towards the end of the boom for development. As the details of the deal were being ironed out he went to the bank and borrowed money to start up a business based on the promise that he was getting €12M for his farm. Crash came, land deal fell through, his business failed and he ended up in severe debt instead of a multi-millionaire. I can't believe he didn't just focus on pushing the sale through and have that in the bank before borrowing money.

For those that say a boom is coming back, I can't see it with the Covid-19 situation. There might be a small bounce as people spend money in pubs and restaurants again but the economic outlook worldwide is uncertain, tax takes etc. have been down and the Covid-19 payments are a big cost to the economy. Once the initial buzz around the lifting of restrictions dissipates people will tighten their belts.

My own job in the mythical, supposedly fantastic IT industry has become a bit uncertain in the last few months, my company are looking to cut costs in a big way.

irishgeo

partyguinness wrote: »

Actually during the height of the property boom I remember sitting in front of buy to let buyers and thinking to myself on many occasions:-

"So...what happens when the Poles go home? Who is going to pay the mortgage"

One thing that was glaringly obvious to me mid 2000s was that the Eastern Europeans in general were not putting down roots. In other words, they were not buying property i.e. they had no intention of staying.

Yep they sent all the money home and built fine houses in their own countries.

facehugger99

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There's a bit more to it than that. The real question was whether the peope throwing money around were happy and whether throwing money around made them happy. In most cases I really doubt it did.

You need to figure out what makes you happy.

I love to travel, the boom afford me the opportunity to see a lot of places between 99-07 which I wouldn't have been able to get to (or at least not as many places), if I hadn't been getting a Celtic Tiger salary.

Montage of Feck

Receiving MBNA junk mail every other day.

partyguinness

Actually during the height of the property boom I remember sitting in front of buy to let buyers and thinking to myself on many occasions:-

"So...what happens when the Poles go home? Who is going to pay the mortgage"

One thing that was glaringly obvious to me mid 2000s was that the Eastern Europeans in general were not putting down roots. In other words, they were not buying property i.e. they had no intention of staying.