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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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Treppen

addaword wrote: »

+1.
PS pay rose 60% during the Celtic tiger. The money the government was getting then was based on unsustainable property taxes, so as someone said on the radio recently why should the wages not be restored to pre boom levels if they want restoration?
A cut is inevitable, the country cannot afford current spending and is borrowing 30 billion. Not sustainable.
Most people I know in the private sector are on reduced incomes. Some have lost their jobs. Most have no pension.

Why the didn't they take out a pension?

Treppen

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

People go on to "debate" her , when the researcher calls them they state what they are going to say.
She's handed this statement (standard practice in radio), but she can't even play the pretend game.
She starts debating by saying "Michael you don't think there should be pay cuts" and as soon as they start speaking she cuts in and shouts them down.... Next caller. At least Pat Kenny or Joe Duffy will take you out to lunch before ***"""""*ing you

She demanded the August leaving cert be cancelled last March as we didn't have any certainty, and demanded predicted grades (did she have any relations doing leaving cert I wonder?).
Then a few weeks later she was demanding primary schools re-open ASAP no matter what, started bleeting on about unions and lazy teachers etc.

Shed drive you to drink

fliball123

EndaHonesty wrote: »

http://www.finfacts.ie/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

https://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html

Jesus don't be bringing actually facts into the debate the unions will not like it and might trip over their increments

EndaHonesty

Pay - Irish Public Service 2001-2006: Salaries up 59%; Payroll up 18% - 38,000 additional workers and Pensions up 81.3%: Average industrial wage rise in the period was 19%

http://www.finfacts.ie/celtictigereconomyireland.htm#Pay_-_Irish_Public_Service_2001-2006

During 2000–08, the gross exchequer pay bill rose 118 percent in nominal terms, driven by staff numbers rising 35 percent and average pay increases of 61 percent.

https://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2012/06/1662012-imf-report-on-ireland-public.html

Sinzo

addaword wrote: »

+1.
PS pay rose 60% during the Celtic tiger. The money the government was getting then was based on unsustainable property taxes, so as someone said on the radio recently why should the wages not be restored to pre boom levels if they want restoration?
A cut is inevitable, the country cannot afford current spending and is borrowing 30 billion. Not sustainable.
Most people I know in the private sector are on reduced incomes. Some have lost their jobs. Most have no pension.

PS pay rose by 60 percent during the Celtic Tiger? ... What a total lie.
I wish you would stop peddling utter rubbish.
You are making it up as you go..
I think you're a bit of a fantasist.
I will ask you to quote your sources - this should be interesting..
By the way, "irelands private sector workers are amongst the highest paid in the world" .... I presume that includes you!
Then again why wouldn't they be, because they live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world where the cost of living is so high.
So you have to put everything in context.
In fairness, you never give up...
I hope you are applying the same work ethic in your cushy private sector job!
Also, if you are proposing to cut public sector workers to pre noughties rates, why not ask all private sector workers, including you, to have their pay cut to pre Celtic Tiger rates too. After all, we are in serious debt. If private sector workers agreed to massive pay cuts can you imagine how great that would be for the ECONOMY!!!
Your suggestion is typical - I'm alright Jack or NIMBYism mentality.
It seems that you want a capitalist structure when it comes to you and you want a communist system for public servants.
Having said all of the above, I believe that cuts in the public sector and, unfortunately, in the private sector are inevitable down the line unless a vaccine is found soon..

addaword

cms88 wrote: »

I often wonder about the '' pay restoration'' thing with the PS. If someone new was never being paid X amount to start with how can it be restored?

+1.
PS pay rose 60% during the Celtic tiger. The money the government was getting then was based on unsustainable property taxes, so as someone said on the radio recently why should the wages not be restored to pre boom levels if they want restoration?
A cut is inevitable, the country cannot afford current spending and is borrowing 30 billion. Not sustainable.
Most people I know in the private sector are on reduced incomes. Some have lost their jobs. Most have no pension.

KilOit

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

Ciara i have 4 kids, both parents dead and also had covid kelly, whatever she says it isn't of any substance.

Sinzo

cms88 wrote: »

I often wonder about the '' pay restoration'' thing with the PS. If someone new was never being paid X amount to start with how can it be restored?

There is no mystery to it. At a certain point in time (2009) ps was paid ca 13 percent more for the same or similar role. A decade or so later their pay has been basically restored to what it was then. It's not that complicated really e.g. your boss cuts your pay today by 10 percent. I think you might want him to restore it as quickly as possible..

Sinzo

I Am The Law wrote: »

Time to bring back benchmarking.

That could be a very sticky wicket...

I Am The Law

Time to bring back benchmarking.

cms88

GooglePlus wrote: »

Great to hear Michael McGrath confirm that planned PS pay restoration will go ahead in August.

I often wonder about the '' pay restoration'' thing with the PS. If someone new was never being paid X amount to start with how can it be restored?

Sinzo

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

I think that many in the public service might agree with that if it is cor the common good and if the quid pro quo would be a pay freeze rather than a pay cut... did you have a pay cut recently??

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

Lmfao! You get funnier every day! Ciara Kelly?? There's more substance on the Joe Duffy show! Hilarious!

addaword

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

Sinzo

MrsBean wrote:

He's talking about Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform not T-shock MicheÃ¡l Martin.

You may bet that Me haul (as in, our glorious new leader) has told Michael, the new face of public expenditure, to be careful what he says so whatever he says is sure to have had his royal imprimatur. Behind the scenes they know it would be foolish to talk about cuts just after the sterling work of the PS during the lock down. When the honeymoon is over and after the post coital glow has abated, you may be sure that cuts and/or pay cuts will follow. Instead of the 7 year itch, we could be due the 7 month political switch .. if ya catch my drift

MrsBean

Sinzo wrote: »

No need to worry Kingstevi, he's all talk now that he is in the full flush of his, long yearned for, stint as tee shock! I wouldn't bet on pay increases so don't get too excited

He's talking about Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform not T-shock Micheál Martin.

Sinzo

As I said earlier addaword.. public servants taxes are also paying for your gold plated DB pension... A little thank you would be appreciated..

Sinzo

kingstevii wrote:

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

No need to worry Kingstevi, he's all talk now that he is in the full flush of his, long yearned for, stint as tee shock! I wouldn't bet on pay increases so don't get too excited

GooglePlus

kingstevii wrote: »

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

What grade are you, I can't even afford pockets..

kingstevii

MarkR wrote: »

It looks like the incoming government has ruled out pay cuts.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/michael-mcgrath-rules-out-austerity-as-he-takes-up-public-expenditure-ministry-1008007.html

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

CrabRevolution

Geuze wrote: »

OK.

Might there be a pay freeze during 2021, maybe 2022?

There's no increases currently scheduled after the one in October, so PS pay will already be frozen in that sense.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

same as any public sector working who joined after 6th april 1995 so

I know.
Theres one for everyone in the country. Except pre 95 public workers I guess.

[Deleted User]

JimmyVik wrote: »

Mine will be about €220 per week.
My cousin, who never worked a day in his life will get roughly the same.

same as any public sector working who joined after 6th april 1995 so

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated.

you of any poster in this thread have no business holding forth on any aspect of how the value of a pension is calculated- you have demonstrated the reading comprehension of a child as regards the one article you keep waving about, which in itself isn't worth a dry sh1te for multiple reasons pointed out multiple times

JimmyVik

kippy wrote: »

As pointed out to you, all of the private sector have access to a DB pension.

Mine will be about €220 per week.
My cousin, who never worked a day in his life will get roughly the same.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated, given we are living longer nowadays. It is unfair the private sector pays their taxes to the government for the government and their employees to have DB pensions, yet the private sector cannot get them themselves.

As pointed out to you, all of the private sector have access to a DB pension.

GooglePlus

Great to hear Michael McGrath confirm that planned PS pay restoration will go ahead in August.

addaword

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated, given we are living longer nowadays. It is unfair the private sector pays their taxes to the government for the government and their employees to have DB pensions, yet the private sector cannot get them themselves.

Sinzo

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Do you read the post's? An official document from Gov.ie has been linked above.

It literally says "the Scheme is a Public Service Defined Benefit Pension Scheme"

Thanks for that Enda. Your handle suits you well - honest to a fault!

Sinzo

HerrKuehn wrote: »

It is a bit more complicated than that. A garda can retire from 55, the state pension is paid from 66 years of age. There are all sorts of other benefits that need to be valued such as what happens when they die if their spouse is still alive etc.

Yes. There are those details but there is a lot less devil in the detail about those issues. they can indeed retire at 55 - the army & nurses also have similar advantages in terms of years worked and retirement age. In general the point is that most public servants require 40 years service and can only get a full pension with 40 years. They can retire with a full pension at 60 years (rather than 55 years) if they have the full 40 years service.
The complexity is more in the way that pension schemes are planned and managed and in the way the long term investments work out (for private pensions whereas the government guarantees public sector pensions). That does not mean government pensions may not become less favourable in the future. I will have to work until 66 to cover my mortgage repayments.