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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if Earls is phased out. If he is, you'd imagine the back three will be Larmour, Conway and Stockdale. I'm not fully convinced that Lowe is test level but I can't wait to see him have a go.

I'm not sure where Addison fits.

Been a long time since we had so many unknowns in the back three.

Earls was already been phased out in the last 6 nations.

Addison I dont think can be discussed until he is actually fit for a few games.

Former Former

IIRC Earls was injured for the start of the 6N. I don't know if there was a plan to drop him from the outset.

molloyjh

The question isn't how old Sean Cronin is or whether he's been dropped before or not. Its who is the best option. Are Niall Scannell or Rob Herring better options at this level?

Kelleher is still a bit too green to start, so for me right now its probably Herring to start & Kelleher off the bench with a view to Kelleher taking the starting shirt. The question then becomes about whether Herring is a better option off the bench than Cronin...

Buer

I don't think Cronin is in the conversation any longer. He was a great servant but he's 34 now and has a fair few miles on the clock. I don't think he's in the Leinster 23 right now when all are fit based on performances this season to date and I can see his game time continuing to be low enough for Leinster next year.

I think we go forward with Kelleher and Herring at this moment until someone else steps up to force their way into the set up. Scannell might well be that person but he hasn't really kicked on in the way that I would have expected a few years ago.

budhabob

Former Former wrote: »

IIRC Earls was injured for the start of the 6N. I don't know if there was a plan to drop him from the outset.

as it stood, Earls was in better form than the other options but was injured. I'd still have him ahead of others.

But who knows how people will return from such a break in play.

molloyjh

To be fair to Cronin, he was in the RWC squad until the injury. He then didn't get back fit until the Ulster game at the back end of Dec. We only played 8 games since he got back and he was in the 23 for all of those (admittedly Kelleher was injured/unavailable for most). He started 4 of the 8. He benched behind Tracy 3 times & behind Kelleher once. It seems he's second choice behind Kelleher at the moment. I'd like to see some more of him before reaching any judgement tbh as he was coming back from injury in a busy period which meant a lot of rotation etc. Not the easiest way to get back to form

molloyjh

For me the best Ireland 23 going into the next 12 months could look something like:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Conan VDF

Murray Sexton
Aki Ringrose
Lowe Larmour Earls

Herring, Kilcoyne, Porter, Baird, Doris, Cooney, Carbery, Addison

The 23 shirt could go to a bunch of guys, but for me Addison offers the best coverage across the back line & is serious quality. If he could stay fit.

There are also a good few that could make cases ahead of others there. If Jack McGrath can get back close to his best he could be back in the reckoning. Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy & POM are other obvious ones in the pack. Then throw in Luke McGrath, Marmion, Henshaw, Chris Farrell, Conway and Stockdale in the back line as well as some of the young talent coming through. We're in a good place.

Areas of possible concern are hooker, loosehead (where our options are all getting on), lack of a second playmaker (or real replacement for Sexton) and leadership within the group as a whole.

AbusesToilets

molloyjh wrote: »

For me the best Ireland 23 going into the next 12 months could look something like:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Henderson Ryan
Stander Conan VDF

Murray Sexton
Aki Ringrose
Lowe Larmour Earls

Herring, Kilcoyne, Porter, Baird, Doris, Cooney, Carbery, Addison

The 23 shirt could go to a bunch of guys, but for me Addison offers the best coverage across the back line & is serious quality. If he could stay fit.

There are also a good few that could make cases ahead of others there. If Jack McGrath can get back close to his best he could be back in the reckoning. Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy & POM are other obvious ones in the pack. Then throw in Luke McGrath, Marmion, Henshaw, Chris Farrell, Conway and Stockdale in the back line as well as some of the young talent coming through. We're in a good place.

Areas of possible concern are hooker, loosehead (where our options are all getting on), lack of a second playmaker (or real replacement for Sexton) and leadership within the group as a whole.

I'd swap Addison with Hensahw. You have Carberry, who can cover the FB/OH position

[Deleted User]

Fiji and Japan to join Six Nations for one off tournament?!

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fiji and Japan to join Six Nations for one off tournament?!

I'd be fuming if I was Georgia and the 6N created a tournament with Fiji and Japan and they weren't in the conversation at all.

Richie_Rich89

The trouble in the back three for Ireland is that the three best players are all best on the left wing. Stockdale and Lowe certainly are, and I would argue Larmour is as well.

Larmour's not good enough defensively for right wing imo.

I really like elements of Stockdale's play at fullback. It'd be interesting to see him there.

aloooof

I think some are overlooking Conway here. He was probably our best back during the 6 Nations. The Wales game in particular, he was extremely good. Personally, I'd go for 11. Lowe, 14. Conway and 15. Larmour. Possibly with Earls as 23.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

I think some are overlooking Conway here. He was probably our best back during the 6 Nations. The Wales game in particular, he was extremely good. Personally, I'd go for 11. Lowe, 14. Conway and 15. Larmour. Possibly with Earls as 23.

Conway since the start of the WC warm up has been the best back.

bilston

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'd be fuming if I was Georgia and the 6N created a tournament with Fiji and Japan and they weren't in the conversation at all.

This is about securing the financial future of Tier 1 sides never mind Tier 2 or Tier 3 sides. The reality is there is more money to be made from playing Japan and Fiji.

I assume this is a one off anyway.

But agree it's harsh on Georgia.

PTH2009

any news on whats happening for the November Window this year ??

Downlinz

aloooof wrote: »

I think some are overlooking Conway here. He was probably our best back during the 6 Nations. The Wales game in particular, he was extremely good. Personally, I'd go for 11. Lowe, 14. Conway and 15. Larmour. Possibly with Earls as 23.

Earls and Stockdale are both on national contracts, we all know how that tends to go against form selections. Conway is almost eternally our "form back" but unfortunately I see him continuing to be overlooked.

[Deleted User]

Downlinz wrote: »

Earls and Stockdale are both on national contracts, we all know how that tends to go against form selections. Conway is almost eternally our "form back" but unfortunately I see him continuing to be overlooked.

Absolute horse****. As if there is some kind of clause in the national contract that means they're more likely to be selected.

thomond2006

Conway turns 29 in two weeks. The next season is a big one for him to nail down a starting spot.

Shefwedfan

Downlinz wrote: »

Earls and Stockdale are both on national contracts, we all know how that tends to go against form selections. Conway is almost eternally our "form back" but unfortunately I see him continuing to be overlooked.

Jack McGrath was on a central contract......

So I think you need to reconsider that position

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Jack McGrath was on a central contract......

So I think you need to reconsider that position

As was Toner

aloooof

As was POM when Doris was selected ahead of him. Aside from that...

Downlinz wrote: »

Earls and Stockdale are both on national contracts, we all know how that tends to go against form selections. Conway is almost eternally our "form back" but unfortunately I see him continuing to be overlooked.

Conway started all 3 of our 6 Nations games.

jacothelad

aloooof wrote: »

As was POM when Doris was selected ahead of him. Aside from that...

Conway started all 3 of our 6 Nations games.

Conway is our best wing on recent form. He is a sure starter I would think. Great pace, defence and aerial skills and the bonus of a good kicking game. While hindsight is always 20/20, he maybe should have played more Ireland games over others in seasons past.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

As was POM when Doris was selected ahead of him. Aside from that...

Conway started all 3 of our 6 Nations games.

Conway was nailed on to start the rest as well. Stockdale if anyone was under pressure.

I do think in the WC he should have started in the Qtr v NZ but it would have made f**k all difference anyway.

Niallof9

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not fully convinced that Lowe is test level but I can't wait to see him have a go.

:pac:

are you having a laugh?

Lowe is quite clearly a test level animal and a cut above Earls, who is finished, Conway and Larmour, at present. Stockdale was remarkable at the start but is very much out of form.

people forget just how bad we have been. Lowe walks into the team

bilston

Niallof9 wrote: »

Lowe walks into the team

Don't think it's as clear cut as that.

He will be a great asset to have and will force the likes of Stockdale, Conway and Larmour to up their game.

He might be first choice, but it is by no means certain

Former Former

bilston wrote: »

Don't think it's as clear cut as that.

He will be a great asset to have and will force the likes of Stockdale, Conway and Larmour to up their game.

He might be first choice, but it is by no means certain

Agreed. I've seen things from Lowe that tell me he's a potential game changer for Ireland but I've also seen plenty that makes me think he's hit his level with Leinster. He'll be brought into the squad, he'll go from there, but I wouldn't regard it as a cert.

There's two big unknowns, how good really is Stockdale and is Earls finished? Earls is the best winger we have, but he's 32. Stockdale 2018 vs Stockdale 2019 are two very different players.

Conway is probably the safest bet but I don't think he's the best we have by any means.

Larmour is probably the only one in the back three who's assured of a place, we don't really have a ready made alternative at FB, at least until Addison can string a few games together.

stephen_n

Niallof9 wrote: »

:pac:

are you having a laugh?

Lowe is quite clearly a test level animal and a cut above Earls, who is finished, Conway and Larmour, at present. Stockdale was remarkable at the start but is very much out of form.

people forget just how bad we have been. Lowe walks into the team

Lowe is a very different player to the other wings available at present. However his lack of pace and error count from over playing things, could be badly exposed at international level. Only time will tell but saying he will walk into the team is far from a certainty.

Burkie1203

Australia closing borders between states now. Autumn 6n more and more likely now

Shefwedfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Australia closing borders between states now. Autumn 6n more and more likely now

The AI are cancelled already are they not?

Burkie1203

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The AI are cancelled already are they not?

No Not that's I've seen. But any lingering chances of them happening I think are done. Trying to gauge the situation in SA now. To see what it might mean for the Pro14