nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

AIL 2020-2021

The Lost Sheep

No change from last seasons divisions with covid19 calling a halt to proceedings in mid March

1A
Cork Con, Clontarf, Lansdowne, Trinity, Garryowen, UCD, Young Munster, Terenure, UCC, Ballynahinch
1B
Shannon, Old Wesley, Naas, Malone, Banbridge, St Marys, Old Belvedere, Armagh, Highfield, Navan
2A
Buccaneers, Ballymena, Cashel, Queens, UL Bohemians, Old Crescent, Dolphin, Nenagh, MU Barnhall, Rainey Old Boys
2B
Blackrock, Galwegians, Greystones, Sligo, Dungannon, Corinthians, Wanderers, Belfast Harlequins, Ballina, Malahide
2C
Skerries, Sundays Well, Midleton, Bruff, Omagh, City of Derry, Tullamore, Bangor, Enniscorthy, Clonmel

Few coaching changes announced already and refs panel for next season picked with several promotions and changes to that
https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/arlb-referees-on-the-national-referee-panel-for-2020-21-season/

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Five Eighth

FellasFellas wrote: »

Malahide are losing a lot of players to Bective. Would imagine this will affect them going forward, and could slip out of top 4.

While Jackman's high profile is surely an asset for Bective when recruiting, Malahide's player/head coach Guilfoyle is a recruiting machine. If it is true that Malahide are losing players to Bective and Monkstown, then something is not right in the Malahide kitchen.

luke9311

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

its not that bective didnt value underage system. They just couldnt attract players for 20s and when i said age grade i meant 13s to 18s. The club needs to be fielding at all these age groups year in year out. Getting kids in the rugby schools who are on 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and then from the non rugby schools. Play in school-club or the youths leagues.
Con field at every age group after years of not having much at under 16s and 18s then fielding strong 20s. Lansdowne have decent underage teams as well fielding in school-club leagues

Very true I wasn’t aware u were talking as low as 13-18s I thought u meant u20s mainly... hard thing to get right even when the club is located or any club for that matter in that area given how big schools rugby has gotten when a young lad plays club all through primary school then goes into 1st year of secondary school and further years u would imagine he would opt to focus solely on schools rugby. I know many michaels gonzaga blackrock players etc over the years that left clubs to play for their respective schools teams

The Lost Sheep

luke9311 wrote: »

Very true I wasn’t aware u were talking as low as 13-18s I thought u meant u20s mainly... hard thing to get right even when the club is located or any club for that matter in that area given how big schools rugby has gotten when a young lad plays club all through primary school then goes into 1st year of secondary school and further years u would imagine he would opt to focus solely on schools rugby. I know many michaels gonzaga blackrock players etc over the years that left clubs to play for their respective schools teams

it shouldnt be have to be that difficult as theres so many kids in Dublin and they could try in non rugby schools as well as kids who may be in the rugby schools but not on the centrepiece teams to attract then
They should be reminded of Brian o Driscoll and plenty others will have played some club rugby while still in secondary school.

Gatekeeper23

Any update on the format of the leagues for the year? Have heard the IRFU and clubs are keen to keep provincial leagues in order to protect finances etc

The Lost Sheep

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Any update on the format of the leagues for the year? Have heard the IRFU and clubs are keen to keep provincial leagues in order to protect finances etc

it will be regional not provincial if it does change and hopefully if there is a change it's for one season only.

Gatekeeper23

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it will be regional not provincial if it does change and hopefully if there is a change it's for one season only.

Would make sense to return to regional/provincial tournaments. AIL is on it's knees, crowds are non-existent for the most part. A return to local derbies, less travel and provincial leagues would be welcomed by most clubs.

luke9311

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it will be regional not provincial if it does change and hopefully if there is a change it's for one season only.

How will they plan to run that? Given there’s 5 Dublin clubs in 1a 2 in cork and limerick and only 1 up north... I haven’t looked greatly at lower divisions but I’d imagine it’s somewhat close or similar stats... they gonna mix all the division 1 club with division 2 etc in the region or keep them separate...

The Lost Sheep

luke9311 wrote: »

How will they plan to run that? Given there’s 5 Dublin clubs in 1a 2 in cork and limerick and only 1 up north... I haven’t looked greatly at lower divisions but I’d imagine it’s somewhat close or similar stats... they gonna mix all the division 1 club with division 2 etc in the region or keep them separate...

if its regional I imagine it would be division 2 only.
If you look at provinces division 2 has 5 connacht, 9 Munster 8 Ulster and 8 Leinster

Though division 1 has 10 leinster sides 6 Munster and 4 Ulster so could be some compromise there as well

luke9311

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

if its regional I imagine it would be division 2 only.
If you look at provinces division 2 has 5 connacht, 9 Munster 8 Ulster and 8 Leinster

Though division 1 has 10 leinster sides 6 Munster and 4 Ulster so could be some compromise there as well

Fair point I new thought about 1b clubs from a 1a perspective... if it goes Regional for one season while we overcome this I do think there will be the possibility the will look at it further and maybe do it for the future of the league too tbh

The Lost Sheep

luke9311 wrote: »

Fair point I new thought about 1b clubs from a 1a perspective... if it goes Regional for one season while we overcome this I do think there will be the possibility the will look at it further and maybe do it for the future of the league too tbh

I dont think it's the future of the league. At least for the top 30 clubs at least
The league needs more support. Both from within it's own membership, from the supporters of provinces who go to f all rugby beyond the pro game as well as the general public.
Regional league isnt the answer to most issues in the league.

Five Eighth

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Any update on the format of the leagues for the year? Have heard the IRFU and clubs are keen to keep provincial leagues in order to protect finances etc

There's an old saying 'Never waste a good crisis'. It isn't too long ago since the IRFU wanted to restructure the AIL. In 2018 the proposal was to have two Premiership divisions with eighth teams in each and two Championship divisions again with eighth teams in each. The Premiership and Championship, it was envisaged, would be played on a national basis. The restructuring also included two Conference divisions (also with eight teams in each) which would be regionally focused. The AIL clubs overwhelmingly rejected the restructuring plan. Is this the opportunity for the IRFU to revisit this plan?

We're now at the end of June, the AIL doesn't need to start until October, even later. If Ireland has maintained control of the virus and full-island travel is the norm, why not go for a 'normal' season fixture list?

Stainalert

Gatekeeper23 wrote: »

Would make sense to return to regional/provincial tournaments. AIL is on it's knees, crowds are non-existent for the most part. A return to local derbies, less travel and provincial leagues would be welcomed by most clubs.

The vast majority of clubs favour AIL over provincial / regional leagues

RuPi

Whilst previously the Majority of clubs were in favour of AIL, this last few months and the loss of revenue may have changed that. It seems the chat is Provincial leagues until Christmas with AIL in the New Year, the provincial games would mean less costs and potentially bigger crowds to try and get clubs back up on their feet.

it’s no secret the IRFU want to bridge the gap between club rugby and A games and if clubs felt this period of provincial rugby was financially more beneficial in the long run it may be the IRFU’s way to get the clubs to agree to the two divisions of 8 sides on an all ireland basis with the other clubs returning to provincial/regional rugby.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Five Eighth

Stainalert wrote: »

The vast majority of clubs favour AIL over provincial / regional leagues

I think only two AIL clubs (Cons and UCC - i'm open to contradiction) voted for the 2018 league restructuring. No senior club wants to be left behind. Once you have some clubs playing nationally and others playing regionally, then a huge gap will open up between the national and provincial clubs. Obviously any ambitious young rugby player will want to further their career chances by playing for the senior club that is playing in the national competition. This would just make the big clubs bigger.

Stainalert

RuPi wrote: »

Whilst previously the Majority of clubs were in favour of AIL, this last few months and the loss of revenue may have changed that. It seems the chat is Provincial leagues until Christmas with AIL in the New Year, the provincial games would mean less costs and potentially bigger crowds to try and get clubs back up on their feet.

it’s no secret the IRFU want to bridge the gap between club rugby and A games and if clubs felt this period of provincial rugby was financially more beneficial in the long run it may be the IRFU’s way to get the clubs to agree to the two divisions of 8 sides on an all ireland basis with the other clubs returning to provincial/regional rugby.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

The provincial argument is very much the view of some Munster clubs outside of 1A. Still a lot of travel involved if Munster clubs went provincial so it is not as cheap an option as you might think. Leinster have had a provincial league for years so less excitement about that idea in these parts.

I'm hopeful we can return to some sort of normality and all going well can have a decent amount of AIL this side of Christmas.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/saveas-new-zealand-example-again-highlights-how-ail-is-a-brutally-underused-resource-39327033.html 

The Lost Sheep

RuPi wrote: »

Whilst previously the Majority of clubs were in favour of AIL, this last few months and the loss of revenue may have changed that. It seems the chat is Provincial leagues until Christmas with AIL in the New Year, the provincial games would mean less costs and potentially bigger crowds to try and get clubs back up on their feet.

it’s no secret the IRFU want to bridge the gap between club rugby and A games and if clubs felt this period of provincial rugby was financially more beneficial in the long run it may be the IRFU’s way to get the clubs to agree to the two divisions of 8 sides on an all ireland basis with the other clubs returning to provincial/regional rugby.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

bigger crowds may occur with more games played on reguonalised basis but crowds will only really increase if a lot of other changes occur.
I dont think regional divisions below the top levels is right as some clubs/IRFU will try close that level off and that isnt good for the game.

Five Eighth wrote: »

I think only two AIL clubs (Cons and UCC - i'm open to contradiction) voted for the 2018 league restructuring. No senior club wants to be left behind. Once you have some clubs playing nationally and others playing regionally, then a huge gap will open up between the national and provincial clubs. Obviously any ambitious young rugby player will want to further their career chances by playing for the senior club that is playing in the national competition. This would just make the big clubs bigger.

totally agree. Players already leave in big numbers to the big city clubs at 20s and some do come back but many dont.

Stainalert wrote: »

The provincial argument is very much the view of some Munster clubs outside of 1A. Still a lot of travel involved if Munster clubs went provincial so it is not as cheap an option as you might think. Leinster have had a provincial league for years so less excitement about that idea in these parts.

I'm hopeful we can return to some sort of normality and all going well can have a decent amount of AIL this side of Christmas.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/saveas-new-zealand-example-again-highlights-how-ail-is-a-brutally-underused-resource-39327033.html ;

not that many outside division 1 from my experience. Leinster provincial league is the league cup and is pre season. Not same as Ulster who have senior league with all sides playing 5/6 games thru season

Five Eighth wrote: »

There's an old saying 'Never waste a good crisis'. It isn't too long ago since the IRFU wanted to restructure the AIL. In 2018 the proposal was to have two Premiership divisions with eighth teams in each and two Championship divisions again with eighth teams in each. The Premiership and Championship, it was envisaged, would be played on a national basis. The restructuring also included two Conference divisions (also with eight teams in each) which would be regionally focused. The AIL clubs overwhelmingly rejected the restructuring plan. Is this the opportunity for the IRFU to revisit this plan?

We're now at the end of June, the AIL doesn't need to start until October, even later. If Ireland has maintained control of the virus and full-island travel is the norm, why not go for a 'normal' season fixture list?

I dont think clubs want that. A big push for many clubs being senior is that they're playing nationally and not clubs just in their province. There is plenty of games with sides relatively close to each other and crowds aren't so much better than those who travel from a distance

Five Eighth

Was recently speaking with a die-hard of a club that dropped from 2C to junior a few years ago. He told me that all of the members were devastated after the relegation and they are doing all they can to get the club back to senior. Even though the costs of playing in an All-Ireland league are high, he said they would give their back teeth to play in the AIL. The members and players all much preferred playing teams from different towns, cities and provinces and he felt that they had greater status as a club when they were playing AIL.

The Lost Sheep

Are many here members of the 'AIL rugby and club rugby' Facebook group?

luke9311

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Are many here members of the 'AIL rugby and club rugby' Facebook group?

Never heard of it

The Lost Sheep

Bohs coaching team confirmed for season
Cathal Sheridan Director of Rugby
George Murray head coach
BJ Botha forwards coach.
Tommy O'Donnell contact skills coach
Ólan Daly, UL Rugby Development Officer - skills coach

Five Eighth

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Bohs coaching team confirmed for season
Cathal Sheridan Director of Rugby
George Murray head coach
BJ Botha forwards coach.
Tommy O'Donnell contact skills coach
Ólan Daly, UL Rugby Development Officer - skills coach

Looks impressive enough and am surprised that BJ Botha is still in Limerick. Thought he may have returned to his native South Africa. Assume the Tommy O Donnell mentioned is the former Bohs and now professional Munster and Ireland player. If so, how can he possibly be named as 'contact skills coach'? He will surely be fully committed to Munster. What happened Tom Hayes and what's he up to now rugby wise?

The Lost Sheep

Five Eighth wrote: »

Looks impressive enough and am surprised that BJ Botha is still in Limerick. Thought he may have returned to his native South Africa. Assume the Tommy O Donnell mentioned is the former Bohs and now professional Munster and Ireland player. If so, how can he possibly be named as 'contact skills coach'? He will surely be fully committed to Munster. What happened Tom Hayes and what's he up to now rugby wise?

George Murray their head coach is Munsters head performance analyst and was last season as well
Bj botha has been doing some coaching in limerick I think and yes it's the pro player Tommy o Donnell. He would be able to do occasional sessions with Bohs every few weeks or every week if needed. How would he not be committed to Munster by doing that in his spare time in the evenings?

Tom hayes. No idea. Nothing announced if hes coaching club wise next season. If coaching at all next season could only be at schools cup level as he was doing some of that on top of his other roles the past few years

Squidgy Black

Five Eighth wrote: »

Looks impressive enough and am surprised that BJ Botha is still in Limerick. Thought he may have returned to his native South Africa. Assume the Tommy O Donnell mentioned is the former Bohs and now professional Munster and Ireland player. If so, how can he possibly be named as 'contact skills coach'? He will surely be fully committed to Munster. What happened Tom Hayes and what's he up to now rugby wise?

Role like that would just be in for contact training sessions so likely twice a week in the evenings. Wouldn't be a massive commitment at all. It's more getting him involved in the setup for experience.

Five Eighth

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

George Murray their head coach is Munsters head performance analyst and was last season as well
Bj botha has been doing some coaching in limerick I think and yes it's the pro player Tommy o Donnell. He would be able to do occasional sessions with Bohs every few weeks or every week if needed. How would he not be committed to Munster by doing that in his spare time in the evenings?

Tom hayes. No idea. Nothing announced if hes coaching club wise next season. If coaching at all next season could only be at schools cup level as he was doing some of that on top of his other roles the past few years

Fair enough but, as far as I know, no other current Ireland international is listed on an AIL coaching ticket. I know that some internationals have given the occasional coaching session to clubs but those sessions would be few and far between during a season.

The Lost Sheep

Five Eighth wrote: »

Fair enough but, as far as I know, no other current Ireland international is listed on an AIL coaching ticket. I know that some internationals have given the occasional coaching session to clubs but those sessions would be few and far between during a season.

I dont see the problem.
Plenty of pros have helped out at schools sides and then ail sides over the years.
Would be great if there was more doing it in clubs. Sean O Brien did plenty of coaching while he was playing with leinster and Ireland. Coached tullows 1sts as well as helping other aides as well.

Five Eighth

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont see the problem.
Plenty of pros have helped out at schools sides and then ail sides over the years.
Would be great if there was more doing it in clubs. Sean O Brien did plenty of coaching while he was playing with leinster and Ireland. Coached tullows 1sts as well as helping other aides as well.

There's no problem. Think there's a difference between 'helping out' and being listed on the coaching ticket. It's good to see professional players giving something back to the clubs. I just thought it might be a case of Bohs using a high profile current international to help attract players to the club. Good luck to them.

Lucas44

Five Eighth wrote: »

There's no problem. Think there's a difference between 'helping out' and being listed on the coaching ticket. It's good to see professional players giving something back to the clubs. I just thought it might be a case of Bohs using a high profile current international to help attract players to the club. Good luck to them.

Why can’t it be both? No need to have such a miserable outlook on it... pro players essentially finish work during the week the same time anyone working a 9-5 does, nothing to stop him going down to training to help out on a tuesday&thursday and helping out on match day when possible, not like he’s going to be doing 40+ hours of video analysis and the rest of the duties of a head coach.. not to mention both teams train in the same location so he can go directly from one to the other and obviously it will help bohs attract players coming out of school if they are offered the opportunity to pick the brain of an international

FellasFellas

Lucas44 wrote: »

Why can’t it be both? No need to have such a miserable outlook on it... pro players essentially finish work during the week the same time anyone working a 9-5 does, nothing to stop him going down to training to help out on a tuesday&thursday and helping out on match day when possible, not like he’s going to be doing 40+ hours of video analysis and the rest of the duties of a head coach.. not to mention both teams train in the same location so he can go directly from one to the other and obviously it will help bohs attract players coming out of school if they are offered the opportunity to pick the brain of an international

Pro players are usually finished training by midday or 1 or 2pm. They always start early and finish early. There's a lot of downtime as a pro player for other ventures, coaching being one of them.

arsebiscuits1

There is also the pro players actively looking at life after rugby.

They can't just go from playing to coaching seamlessly. They'll need to do their various coaching qualifications. All of which would have a practical element to them.

Countless professionals in Ireland getting their mentored hours in with various clubs. TOD might well be doing the same thing

The Lost Sheep

Five Eighth wrote: »

There's no problem. Think there's a difference between 'helping out' and being listed on the coaching ticket. It's good to see professional players giving something back to the clubs. I just thought it might be a case of Bohs using a high profile current international to help attract players to the club. Good luck to them.

does it matter. If hes listed as a coach then Bohs aren't doing it just to try attract players
Tommy's played with Bohs and been affiliated with them since he moved to limerick from clanwilliam.