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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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JimmyVik

Sinzo wrote: »

When they are arguing against the public service it does not suit their argument to mention it. It is up to us as public servants to point it out.:pac:

Not my job

Im not a public servant. But im not a begrudger either to be fair.

I wonder how much you would have to have in a pension fund to get €12500 per year at 67.
around €350K ?

Sinzo

JimmyVik wrote: »

Not my job
Im not a public servant. But im not a begrudger either to be fair.

I wonder how much you would have to have in a pension fund to get €12500 per year at 67.
around €350K ?

I'm no expert on pensions but even if we go according to the logic in an earlier part of the discussion:
Someone quoted that 100,000 would have to be paid each year to give a Garda pension of 32,000 i.e. an extra ca. 40,000 per annum to pay for the pension
Therefore on that logic - ca. 15,000 per annum would be required to pay a pension of 12500 or almost half of the cost of the public service pension

So I would guess that almost half of the pension pot required to pay the average Garda pension would be required to finance the state pension and remember that the average pay in the public sector as a whole is significantly less than the pay and pension of a Garda.

I'm sure the real experts will come in and correct me on my back of a match box figures! There may be extra costs (and maybe exponential cost) associated with producing a higher pension payment. The experts will know about the pension pot and returns required to guarantee a guaranteed pension payment or it may all be guesswork and crossing fingers that the markets and investments will go the way they hope.

barneystinson

JimmyVik wrote: »

They will spend all day trying to work out the fund value a public sector worker would have to have to get their pension, but never work out what the fund value to give you your €12.5 per year was worth.

Don't be daft man, they won't spend all day on it! If they're anything like Addaword they simply regurgitate something they don't understand that they saw on the first link they clicked when they googled "value of pension for greedy basterds in the public sector, especially Dem guards with their free coffees", then spend days deflecting and lying about whether they actually read or understand the figures.... :pac:

MarkR

It looks like the incoming government has ruled out pay cuts.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/michael-mcgrath-rules-out-austerity-as-he-takes-up-public-expenditure-ministry-1008007.html

Sinzo

MarkR wrote: »

It looks like the incoming government has ruled out pay cuts.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/michael-mcgrath-rules-out-austerity-as-he-takes-up-public-expenditure-ministry-1008007.html

Watch this space - its only a matter of time especially if there is a second or a third wave that requires further lock downs. I'm not at all confident about no pay cuts in the public service:(

kippy

Sinzo wrote: »

Watch this space - its only a matter of time especially if there is a second or a third wave that requires further lock downs. I'm not at all confident about no pay cuts in the public service:(

TBF,
There will be paycuts in the public service over the medium term. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

HerrKuehn

Sinzo wrote: »

I'm no expert on pensions but even if we go according to the logic in an earlier part of the discussion:
Someone quoted that 100,000 would have to be paid each year to give a Garda pension of 32,000 i.e. an extra ca. 40,000 per annum to pay for the pension
Therefore on that logic - ca. 15,000 per annum would be required to pay a pension of 12500 or almost half of the cost of the public service pension

So I would guess that almost half of the pension pot required to pay the average Garda pension would be required to finance the state pension and remember that the average pay in the public sector as a whole is significantly less than the pay and pension of a Garda.

I'm sure the real experts will come in and correct me on my back of a match box figures! There may be extra costs (and maybe exponential cost) associated with producing a higher pension payment. The experts will know about the pension pot and returns required to guarantee a guaranteed pension payment or it may all be guesswork and crossing fingers that the markets and investments will go the way they hope.

It is a bit more complicated than that. A garda can retire from 55, the state pension is paid from 66 years of age. There are all sorts of other benefits that need to be valued such as what happens when they die if their spouse is still alive etc.

Geuze

MarkR wrote: »

It looks like the incoming government has ruled out pay cuts.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/michael-mcgrath-rules-out-austerity-as-he-takes-up-public-expenditure-ministry-1008007.html

OK.

Might there be a pay freeze during 2021, maybe 2022?

talla10

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Gardai can retire on full pension after 30 years of service, so a Garda could be retired on full pension at 50.

For all entrants after 1st April 2004 they cannot retire until they are 55. So a Garda starting at 20 will now work a minimum of 35 years before he can retire.

EndaHonesty

talla10 wrote: »

For all entrants after 1st April 2004 they cannot retire until they are 55. So a Garda starting at 20 will now work a minimum of 35 years before he can retire.

You are correct, thank you. I'll delete the incorrect post.

Sinzo

HerrKuehn wrote: »

It is a bit more complicated than that. A garda can retire from 55, the state pension is paid from 66 years of age. There are all sorts of other benefits that need to be valued such as what happens when they die if their spouse is still alive etc.

Yes. There are those details but there is a lot less devil in the detail about those issues. they can indeed retire at 55 - the army & nurses also have similar advantages in terms of years worked and retirement age. In general the point is that most public servants require 40 years service and can only get a full pension with 40 years. They can retire with a full pension at 60 years (rather than 55 years) if they have the full 40 years service.
The complexity is more in the way that pension schemes are planned and managed and in the way the long term investments work out (for private pensions whereas the government guarantees public sector pensions). That does not mean government pensions may not become less favourable in the future. I will have to work until 66 to cover my mortgage repayments.

Sinzo

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Do you read the post's? An official document from Gov.ie has been linked above.

It literally says "the Scheme is a Public Service Defined Benefit Pension Scheme"

Thanks for that Enda. Your handle suits you well - honest to a fault!

addaword

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated, given we are living longer nowadays. It is unfair the private sector pays their taxes to the government for the government and their employees to have DB pensions, yet the private sector cannot get them themselves.

GooglePlus

Great to hear Michael McGrath confirm that planned PS pay restoration will go ahead in August.

kippy

addaword wrote: »

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated, given we are living longer nowadays. It is unfair the private sector pays their taxes to the government for the government and their employees to have DB pensions, yet the private sector cannot get them themselves.

As pointed out to you, all of the private sector have access to a DB pension.

JimmyVik

kippy wrote: »

As pointed out to you, all of the private sector have access to a DB pension.

Mine will be about €220 per week.
My cousin, who never worked a day in his life will get roughly the same.

[Deleted User]

addaword wrote: »

Well said Enda. Of course it is a defined benefit pension. Its value is not to be underestimated.

you of any poster in this thread have no business holding forth on any aspect of how the value of a pension is calculated- you have demonstrated the reading comprehension of a child as regards the one article you keep waving about, which in itself isn't worth a dry sh1te for multiple reasons pointed out multiple times

[Deleted User]

JimmyVik wrote: »

Mine will be about €220 per week.
My cousin, who never worked a day in his life will get roughly the same.

same as any public sector working who joined after 6th april 1995 so

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

same as any public sector working who joined after 6th april 1995 so

I know.
Theres one for everyone in the country. Except pre 95 public workers I guess.

CrabRevolution

Geuze wrote: »

OK.

Might there be a pay freeze during 2021, maybe 2022?

There's no increases currently scheduled after the one in October, so PS pay will already be frozen in that sense.

kingstevii

MarkR wrote: »

It looks like the incoming government has ruled out pay cuts.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/michael-mcgrath-rules-out-austerity-as-he-takes-up-public-expenditure-ministry-1008007.html

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

GooglePlus

kingstevii wrote: »

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

What grade are you, I can't even afford pockets..

Sinzo

kingstevii wrote:

Also, Michael said he's looking forward to meeting the unions for a future agreement so it looks like there'll be pay rises in 2021 and 2022.. Can't wait! The money is already falling out of me pockets and now they're giving me more money!

No need to worry Kingstevi, he's all talk now that he is in the full flush of his, long yearned for, stint as tee shock! I wouldn't bet on pay increases so don't get too excited

Sinzo

As I said earlier addaword.. public servants taxes are also paying for your gold plated DB pension... A little thank you would be appreciated..

MrsBean

Sinzo wrote: »

No need to worry Kingstevi, he's all talk now that he is in the full flush of his, long yearned for, stint as tee shock! I wouldn't bet on pay increases so don't get too excited

He's talking about Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform not T-shock Micheál Martin.

Sinzo

MrsBean wrote:

He's talking about Michael McGrath Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform not T-shock MicheÃ¡l Martin.

You may bet that Me haul (as in, our glorious new leader) has told Michael, the new face of public expenditure, to be careful what he says so whatever he says is sure to have had his royal imprimatur. Behind the scenes they know it would be foolish to talk about cuts just after the sterling work of the PS during the lock down. When the honeymoon is over and after the post coital glow has abated, you may be sure that cuts and/or pay cuts will follow. Instead of the 7 year itch, we could be due the 7 month political switch .. if ya catch my drift

addaword

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

kingstevii

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

Lmfao! You get funnier every day! Ciara Kelly?? There's more substance on the Joe Duffy show! Hilarious!

Sinzo

addaword wrote: »

There was a debate on newstalk today on Dr Kelly's 12 to 2 show. She like everyone else in Newstalk has had pay cuts. The general consensus was there should be no pay rises in the public sector when so many others had major pay cuts or worse.

I think that many in the public service might agree with that if it is cor the common good and if the quid pro quo would be a pay freeze rather than a pay cut... did you have a pay cut recently??

cms88

GooglePlus wrote: »

Great to hear Michael McGrath confirm that planned PS pay restoration will go ahead in August.

I often wonder about the '' pay restoration'' thing with the PS. If someone new was never being paid X amount to start with how can it be restored?