Graham Linehan banned from twitter for questioning "trans ideology"

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Are you saying judgement and abuse are the same thing here?

Are you saying tweeting a transgender woman to tell them they are really a man isn't abusive?

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You cannot change sex, however. Do you agree with this statement?

I think that long before Graham Linehan and Twitter there were people who went through horrendous experiences in order to live in the body that was of the gender they believed they were and people do not do that on a whim.
There are people born with both sets of genitals - and always have been - where doctors arbitrarily assigned a 'sex' . It is estimated that as many as 1 in 2,000 children born every year are 'intersex' https://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

There is a village in the Dominican Republic where upon entering puberty some of the children develop a penis - before that they look female. They are known as "Guevedoces" and they naturally 'change sex'. Until it happens the children are all considered female.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34290981#:~:text=The%20discovery%20of%20a%20small,of%20people%2C%20writes%20Michael%20Mosley.

So no. I do not agree with that statement.
And neither does the scientific evidence.
Gender is not as cut and dried as people like to make out. 'Mistakes' happen.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I just googled "Irish prison transgender attack" and nothing. Can you suggest some search terms?

What other effects has there been of self Id in Ireland similar to your TD example?

Like if self id is so awful there must be loads right?

They haven't happened.. yet. Why do you think the trans-prisoner in Limerick has 2 guards following them at all times?

It's about preventing these things from happening before it's too late.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

It's the UK, granted, but very silly to think it's improbable.

I'm sure I could get you a couple of local incidents but sure just Google it. I don't particularly want it coming up in my search history.

I just googled "Irish prison transgender attack" and nothing. Can you suggest some search terms?

What other effects has there been of self Id in Ireland similar to your TD example?

Like if self id is so awful there must be loads right?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

It's the UK, granted, but very silly to think it's improbable.

I'm sure I could get you a couple of local incidents but sure just Google it. I don't particularly want it coming up in my search history.

Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.

Read: Biological males are five times more likely... Who would've thought it!

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And if people want to start dishing out judgement on twitter they can't then complain if they get abuse. They are getting back what they are dishing out.

Are you saying judgement and abuse are the same thing here?

OscarMIlde

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You took it upon yourself to define what constitutes being a woman and now you are complaining that you were met with abuse?
Mate, I'm a biological female and if you tweeted me with that crap you'd have been told where to shove it.

I think it's more likely they said they believe the scientific definition of a woman rather than that they decided to take it upon themselves to create their own definition of a woman. I don't understand what is at issue with saying one believes in the biological definition of a woman.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, apparently ‘woman’ is just a nebulous concept. Try and get a definition for it out of somebody that doesn’t involve mentioning biological sex or regressive gender stereotypes. Generally you’re left with vague talk of feelings or ladybrains. :pac:

Don't forget my personal favourite, 'tables of exemplars'. How's that for linguistic bull****

Deleted User wrote: »

Took it upon yourself to define what constitutes being a woman? As if it is open to interpretation?

Well, apparently ‘woman’ is just a nebulous concept. Try and get a definition for it out of somebody that doesn’t involve mentioning biological sex or regressive gender stereotypes. Generally you’re left with vague talk of feelings or ladybrains. :pac:

LLMMLL wrote: »

It doesn't have to be specific. No matter what ridiculous thing you come up with it will be no more plausible. We have had self id for years. Where are the rapes? Where are the TDs? Where are the peeping Tom's?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

It's the UK, granted, but very silly to think it's improbable.

I'm sure I could get you a couple of local incidents but sure just Google it. I don't particularly want it coming up in my search history.

Edit...https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Here's something from the law society outlining how the self ID is a bad thing for prisons.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I stand corrected. Thank you. I was confused with UK law.

Irish Law does state that the a person may legally change their gender.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/html

So there we have it. Irish law states that women can rape and that gender can be changed.

Are we all happy now?

Legally change ones gender is not the same as biologically change ones sex. Which is what the deconstructionists would like to force people to believe. As long as I have a kick left in me biological reality will hold sway and ideologues can go shyte.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I stand corrected. Thank you. I was confused with UK law.

Irish Law does state that the a person may legally change their gender.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/html

So there we have it. Irish law states that women can rape and that gender can be changed.

Are we all happy now?

Sure. How many genders are there? Sex and gender are different aren't they?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh...my apologies, I didn't think you would assume I was claiming that anyone was claiming to be trans to become a TD. I was pointing out that it would be possible for any person, in any role, in any circumstance to self ID as whatever sex they needed to in order to gain an advantage which was to be afforded to the opposite sex.

I didn't mean for you to think I was being specific.

And it is exceptionally plausible

It doesn't have to be specific. No matter what ridiculous thing you come up with it will be no more plausible. We have had self id for years. Where are the rapes? Where are the TDs? Where are the peeping Tom's?

RWCNT wrote: »

Ah cmon now, like this doesn't happen on all sides in nearly every lengthy thread on here.

Fair enough.
It is just a pain in the hole. "Hi guys I m all new and zippy here and I hardly know what is going on. Tell me, tell me, what the fuss is all about."
Hmmm.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I stand corrected. Thank you. I was confused with UK law.

Irish Law does state that the a person may legally change their gender.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/html

So there we have it. Irish law states that women can rape and that gender can be changed.

Are we all happy now?

You cannot change sex, however. Do you agree with this statement?

joeguevara wrote: »

With regards to understanding the legal definition of 'rape' are you discussing the legal definition in Ireland or the legal definition in England. Because, well we are in Ireland so I assume we are discussing the Irish offence, the gender of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Its a common mistake as people always seem to assume that English is exactly the same as Ireland but in lots of cases its vastly different. I am not trying to be smart and I feel that as you are probably educating a lot of people, the facts should always be on point.

Mea cupla.
Got UK and Irish law mixed up.

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

According to the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990, rape is defined as "a sexual assault that includes":

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1990/act/32/section/4/enacted/en/html#sec4

Clearly the law states that any woman (or anyone of any sex or gender) can commit rape under the second definition.

I stand corrected. Thank you. I was confused with UK law.

Irish Law does state that the a person may legally change their gender.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/html

So there we have it. Irish law states that women can rape and that gender can be changed.

Are we all happy now?

RWCNT

Gruffalox wrote: »

You will have to read all the way through this and other similar threads to learn that there are good honest decent suggestions. You are a bit late in for spoon feeding and pretending to be disingenuous. The tactic of relay racing between TRAs in these threads, passing on the baton and trying to wear peopke to a nub with moronic repetition is very visible, I get ya. But nah. Read for yourself.

Ah cmon now, like this doesn't happen on all sides in nearly every lengthy thread on here.

LLMMLL wrote: »

It's incredibly implausible. We have had self id in this country for years and guess what? Nobody has claimed to be trans to become a TD.

Oh...my apologies, I didn't think you would assume I was claiming that anyone was claiming to be trans to become a TD. I was pointing out that it would be possible for any person, in any role, in any circumstance to self ID as whatever sex they needed to in order to gain an advantage which was to be afforded to the opposite sex.

I didn't mean for you to think I was being specific.

And it is exceptionally plausible

hetuzozaho

Gruffalox wrote: »

Explain to me why 1 in 50 men in UK prisons identify as transgender (very high already re population rate) but 1 in 10 traveller men in prison identify as transgender. According to the Director of prisons. Something in the water?
It never happens. All in our silly bigoted heads.

Excuse me?

hetuzozaho wrote: »

This sounds like you don't believe transgender is a thing at all though?

Explain to me why 1 in 50 men in UK prisons identify as transgender (very high already re population rate) but 1 in 10 traveller men in prison identify as transgender. According to the Director of prisons. Something in the water?
It never happens. All in our silly bigoted heads.

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe it is.

Ah apologies. I took you up wrong.

Deleted User wrote: »

I also believe that allowing people to self ID and failure for people to differentiate between the two sexes makes men, women, gender inequality stats, anything sex related, invalid

I don't understand your point here.

My understanding is Ireland has self id since 2015. Has this caused issues?

tigger123 wrote: »

What do you suggest happens to trans women then? We just ignore them and hope they go away?

You will have to read all the way through this and other similar threads to learn that there are good honest decent suggestions. You are a bit late in for spoon feeding and pretending to be disingenuous. The tactic of relay racing between TRAs in these threads, passing on the baton and trying to wear peopke to a nub with moronic repetition is very visible, I get ya. But nah. Read for yourself.

I got the third space idea from Fionne Orlander, a transwoman. One of the very many lovely happy intelligent transwomen who know they are not women.

Gatling

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you could have at least bothered to read the article before commenting.

I did and I believe it was blown completely out of proportion a Twitter spat that could have easily dealt with by giving both people a posting holiday .

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely not.

I'm saying that if self identification is the only prerequisite for changing your sex, it is neither impossible or implausible that people will use that glaring loophole for their advantage.

I never once said transgender people do change on a whim, only that they could.

And you agree with me don't you? Or how long do you have to be agonising over transitioning before YOU will accept someone is trans?

Sounds a little selectively transphobic to me if you believe some and not others...

It's incredibly implausible. We have had self id in this country for years and guess what? Nobody has claimed to be trans to become a TD.

You're just like the anti-gay-marriage people who claimed brothers would marry each other for tax breaks.

hetuzozaho wrote: »

This sounds like you don't believe transgender is a thing at all though?

I believe it is. I also believe that allowing people to self ID and failure for people to differentiate between the two sexes makes men, women, gender inequality stats, anything sex related, invalid

joeguevara

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I too find you extremely contradictory.

Your views are those of a TERF but you are not a feminist.

You seem to believe feminists don't like men, does that include the one's married to men and the mother's of sons??. Can men be feminists?

Do you not think we already have EQUALITY? If not how do you suggest we seek it? It it something we will get given to us or something we will achieve? Is liking men (whatever that means) a precondition or can we dislike men and still get EQUALITY?

You don't appear to understand that 'rape' is a legal term and the only way women could rape is if they are a pre-op transwoman but you don't think they are women therefore women can't 'rape' - they can, and do, commit sexual assault.

I'm not sure it's feminism that is lost tbh.

With regards to understanding the legal definition of 'rape' are you discussing the legal definition in Ireland or the legal definition in England. Because, well we are in Ireland so I assume we are discussing the Irish offence, the gender of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Its a common mistake as people always seem to assume that English is exactly the same as Ireland but in lots of cases its vastly different. I am not trying to be smart and I feel that as you are probably educating a lot of people, the facts should always be on point.

hetuzozaho wrote: »

This sounds like you don't believe transgender is a thing at all though?

He's pointing out the absurdity of self-id.

hetuzozaho

Deleted User wrote: »

I see there was some chatter about only 4 out of 15 cabinet members were female. Why can't a couple of the lads identify as female to make it equal?

This sounds like you don't believe transgender is a thing at all though?