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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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VicMackey1

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just like the consistent boycotts called on by conservative groups or the online outrage from certain quarters for studios having the audacity to have female or non-white characters be the star of their movies.

At one point a white actor would have no problems going blackface, just like at one point a white voice actor would have no problem voicing a character of a different race. People and their morals change.

Companies, studios, and actors make their choice based on what they see is best for their brand. That has always been the way the world works, unfortunately the world is no longer moving in the direction you want it to be going.

Do you have some examples of these consistent boycotts?

Quantum Erasure

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just like the consistent boycotts called on by conservative groups or the online outrage from certain quarters for studios having the audacity to have female or non-white characters be the star of their movies.

At one point a white actor would have no problems going blackface, just like at one point a white voice actor would have no problem voicing a character of a different race. People and their morals change.

Companies, studios, and actors make their choice based on what they see is best for their brand. That has always been the way the world works, unfortunately the world is no longer moving in the direction you want it to be going.

it's called 'acting'. dahling

Carfacemandog

MOH wrote: »

Doesn't that already exist? As in "hand in your gun and your badge"?

Surely the problem is more that there's no proper external oversight

Not quite, a huge problem with policing in the US is that when an officer does something egregious and gets fired or 'steps down' they often wind up just getting hired a department or two over. Whether this is because of poor or just no background checks on officers (ironic since in the US you get criminal checks for almost every job possible) or because of 'wink wink nudge nudge' agreements is anyone's guess and likely varies from one case to the next.

One police chief can ask for your badge and resignation sure, but another a few miles down the road can just give you another badge and let you be on your way.

With nurses for example, their registration to practice as one is often held by a central agency (often a 'college of nurses' body). When misconduct allegations etc are brought against nurses that do not reach criminal level (and sometimes when they do if it's substance abuse or stealing supplies, e.g. not directly harming others), they are usually investigated by these bodies and if found guilty, have restrictions placed on their licences (so for police this might mean nto being allowed deal with the public, in a gun carrying role, etc as opposed to a boss of theirs imposing such rules) or suspension/termination of their licence. When nurses apply for jobs in any facility they are screened, but are also checked through this local body for licence details, history, etc... if they are suspended or revoked this will immediately come back and thus places huge liability on the employer as they will be knowingly employing someone in a role that they cannot.

Of course, criminal convictions will almost always wind up in revocation or suspension of licences as well.

A centralised licencing system similar to other occupations like doctors, nurses, etc might help to reduce situations like those outlined in the following linked quite a bit: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/11/us/whereabouts-of-cast-out-police-officers-other-cities-often-hire-them.html

As a police officer in a small Oregon town in 2004, Sean Sullivan was caught kissing a 10-year-old girl on the mouth.

Mr. Sullivan’s sentence barred him from taking another job as a police officer.

But three months later, in August 2005, Mr. Sullivan was hired, after a cursory check, not just as a police officer on another force but as the police chief. As the head of the department in Cedar Vale, Kan., according to court records and law enforcement officials, he was again investigated for a suspected sexual relationship with a girl and eventually convicted on charges that included burglary and criminal conspiracy.

Yet there is no comprehensive, national system for weeding out problem officers. If there were, such hires would not happen, criminologists and law enforcement officials say.

Smith152

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just like the consistent boycotts called on by conservative groups or the online outrage from certain quarters for studios having the audacity to have female or non-white characters be the star of their movies.

At one point a white actor would have no problems going blackface, just like at one point a white voice actor would have no problem voicing a character of a different race. People and their morals change.

Companies, studios, and actors make their choice based on what they see is best for their brand. That has always been the way the world works, unfortunately the world is no longer moving in the direction you want it to be going.

And what films have people boycotted for their being non white or female lead actors?

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just like the consistent boycotts called on by conservative groups or the online outrage from certain quarters for studios having the audacity to have female or non-white characters be the star of their movies.

At one point a white actor would have no problems going blackface, just like at one point a white voice actor would have no problem voicing a character of a different race. People and their morals change.

Companies, studios, and actors make their choice based on what they see is best for their brand. That has always been the way the world works, unfortunately the world is no longer moving in the direction you want it to be going.

Why do you keep trying to justify bad things by pointing out other bad things that have been done. Obviously people shouldn’t be putting pressure on studios to hire only white actors. That doesn’t make it right that people are being pressured out of jobs. I feel like we should be in agreement here.

Foxtrol

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There are pressure gangs of deranged militants online who figuratively hold a knife to the throats of these actors who are jumping rather than waiting to be pushed. The "moral choice" that they've made is not from "inner reflection and acknowledging their white privilege", they are simply assessing the risk and controlling the damage to their brand ensuring they comply with the white-eyed children.

Just like the consistent boycotts called on by conservative groups or the online outrage from certain quarters for studios having the audacity to have female or non-white characters be the star of their movies.

At one point a white actor would have no problems going blackface, just like at one point a white voice actor would have no problem voicing a character of a different race. People and their morals change.

Companies, studios, and actors make their choice based on what they see is best for their brand. That has always been the way the world works, unfortunately the world is no longer moving in the direction you want it to be going.

1800_Ladladlad

Foxtrol wrote: »

That is quite a jump.

Actors and show runners are making their moral choices, it isn't being mandated by government nor even pushed from any mainstream protest groups (who have much more important issues to deal with).

There are pressure gangs of deranged militants online who figuratively hold a knife to the throats of these actors who are jumping rather than waiting to be pushed. The "moral choice" that they've made is not from "inner reflection and acknowledging their white privilege", they are simply assessing the risk and controlling the damage to their brand ensuring they comply with the white-eyed children.

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

Because then black actors portraying white roles would have to step down too in the name of equality.

That is quite a jump.

Actors and show runners are making their moral choices, it isn't being mandated by government nor even pushed from any mainstream protest groups (who have much more important issues to deal with).

MOH

oyvey wrote: »

Because then black actors portraying white roles would have to step down too in the name of equality.

Also any Irish roles should only be played by Irish actors (which would at least have spared us Far and Away).

kildare lad

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

These people are stupid.like what the **** do you expect to happen.

https://twitter.com/TweetBrettMac/status/1277446069132103680

I seen a lot of edited clip of protesters being run over , well it's done to make it look like that . If you see the whole clips people are getting their cars surrounded , they're trying to open car doors and Rob the cars. But the media don't show that part

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

Why are they the wrong message?

Because then black actors portraying white roles would have to step down too in the name of equality.

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

Like the Trump supporter shouting 'White power' at BLM protesters?

There are plenty of empty heads on all sides.

I agree. Anyone saying white power is a moron. We’re not pro-racism here, we’re anti-violence.

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

Probably everyone here would agree with you. They’re token gestures. And they’re sending the wrong message about what equality should mean.

Why are they the wrong message?

Foxtrol

MOH wrote: »

Doesn't that already exist? As in "hand in your gun and your badge"?

Surely the problem is more that there's no proper external oversight

It basically doesn't exist and in the rare times a cop gets fired there is no database so they can move and become a cop somewhere else.

The cop that murdered Floyd had nearly 20 complaints against him, many very serious.

The cop that killed Tamir Rice, a 12 year old for playing in a park, had been deemed too emotionally unstable to be a cop in one town and just went to the town next door and became a cop there where he went on and shot the kid.

oyvey

Foxtrol wrote: »

Can you please point to the huge BLM drive for this?

I haven't seen many protests demanding this.

These changes to actors that many here appear to be clutching their pearls about are being seen as token gestures that have little to do with anything people are protesting about

Probably everyone here would agree with you. They’re token gestures. And they’re sending the wrong message about what equality should mean.

MOH

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Interesting idea over rethinking policing in the US, from Illinois' attorney general - make police officers licenced like nurses, lawyers and doctors.

https://www.wbez.org/stories/illinois-top-legal-officer-wants-to-license-cops-just-like-doctors-hairdressers/9a8b6505-4283-4975-ad2f-8b653e96da73
“I think it’s the responsibility of the legislature to do what they’ve done for many other professions to have consequence for repeated misconduct or single acts of egregious misconduct,” Raoul said.

“If they have an egregious act of official misconduct or a pattern of such, they can have their license taken away such that they cannot participate in that profession anymore and that should be the same thing for a law enforcement officer who is capable of using deadly force in carrying out his or her duties.”

Doesn't that already exist? As in "hand in your gun and your badge"?

Surely the problem is more that there's no proper external oversight

Mr. Karate

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

He may be a little entitled sh*T but this was a good thing done by his parents.

https://twitter.com/SaraCarterDC/status/1277234167370129408

Cut off his trustfund and cut him out of the will. Most of the White Antifa BLM'ers are just a bunch of rich kids pretending to be revolutionaries.

Foxtrol

oyvey wrote: »

Some guy: What is all this about?
"Protester": (shouts in his face repeatedly) Black lives matter, bro!

Just shows how empty-headed some of these idiots are. They don't even know what they're trying to achieve.

Like the Trump supporter shouting 'White power' at BLM protesters?

There are plenty of empty heads on all sides.

Foxtrol

Hannibal36 wrote: »

The original post in this thread has thread has so many likes it is insane.
Quote
"If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human"

Do so many people really believe it is ok to label so many White people on the other side as terrible human beings what sort of dialogue can happen when it is either my way or you are a terrible human being.

Do people realise that indigenous Irish people are placed behind all immigrants when it comes to social housing in this country this is actively happening here.This is an indisputable fact.Black kids can stab and almost murder Irish kids with actual proof on video then boast about it on social media and not spend a night in jail,out on bail.Does that White kid feel like his life matters now? He is white,it doesn't seem universally accepted that his life matters,there is no punishment meted out to his assailants simply because they are Black,if that was the other way around that White Irish kid wouldn't see the light of day for at least 5 years.

Poor is poor and they feel oppressed so just because some middle class White liberals have been browbeat into carrying some White guilt,you are never going to get a poor White person to carry that guilt absolutely never and it is insanity to label a mass of White people as terrible humans just because they won't get on the guilt train with you.It is never going to happen but White liberals have decided to shut down dialogue with every poor White person and call them terrible humans.

I see you're angry about that but imagine instead of almost murdering they actually did murder him. Imagine rather than being arrested and let out on bail, the offender and his accomplices had no action taken at all for days. Imagine the perpetrator wasn't a kid but a Garda. Imagine instead of this being an isolated incident there were examples similar incidents happening on hundreds of occasions. I'd expect you'd be a hell of a lot angrier

Foxtrol

tjhook wrote: »

It's a very good question and it's good to challenge oneself on these things. For me the important factor is not the desire to keep or get rid of a statue, but rather how that end is achieved.

I'm not in favour of mobs taking it on themselves to decide which statues to topple. E.g. if I could gather a few hundred or even a few thousand anti-FF people willing to tear down statues of Eamon De Velera, does that give me a mandate to do it? The mob in Bristol would appear to think it does.

Where a person lobbies an authority and as a result a decision is taken by that authority to remove a statue, that's different. That's lawful and democratic, whether it applies to statues of war heroes/criminals, slave traders or anything else.

Somebody above (perhaps yourself?) made a very good point about Nazi statues after WW2. Thinking about it, I could add to that situations like Iraq where statues of Saddam Hussein were toppled. I'd view those slightly differently. Still mob action, but unusual situations in that the state had collapsed and there was no authority to appeal to. In the absence of a state/authority, all that remains is individuals making their own decisions.

In the case of Ireland after independence, I would guess most of the town renaming and statue removals were done with the permission/order of the new state. Not always, as in the case of Nelson's Pillar in Dublin. I'd consider that a reckless unlawful action by a mob. There was democracy and an authority to lobby rather than sneaking around using explosives in a city centre.

I agree with much of your points above but I'd argue that for many people who have taken that step to rip down the statues themselves feel that there is an absence of a just authority. In many southern states, they are gerrymandered to a ridiculous point where the will of the voters isn't being heard, which due to the US court appointment system means that the courts in turn are similarly biased against the will of the voters.

To go along your logic then opponents of statues being taken down shouldn't have an issue when the authority approves the measure, however we've seen many here complain about statues being legitimately taken down and in the US many people carrying out the removal for the government need to wear masks to avoid reprisals for doing their job.

Foxtrol

ReggiePines wrote: »

No sane white person is even remotely offended by this, what is offensive however is the hypocritical double standard being perpetrated by these moronic BLM witch hunters.

Can you please point to the huge BLM drive for this?

I haven't seen many protests demanding this.

These changes to actors that many here appear to be clutching their pearls about are being seen as token gestures that have little to do with anything people are protesting about

Foxtrol

Bonniedog wrote: »

There's a lot more evidence that investing in policing and handing out real prison time is cost effective and a much more efficient means to protect NY citizens of all colours.

NY murders fell from 2245 in 1990 to 289 in 2018. They rose to 318 last year as city starts to return to its bat**** liberal anti NYPD policies that almost destroyed the place.

Education budget is $34 billion for year 2019/20.

Health and welfare budget is $33 billion.

You give the impression children have no school books!

Policing practices that were proven to be so racially biased that courts forced them to end?

Prison time that have been proven to give non-white offenders significantly more time for the same crime as a white offender?

As a general point on the ratio of spending, are you calling for Irish spending on police be doubled or education spending to be halved so we can align to the same level of spending as the NY rate you speak so highly of?

1800_Ladladlad

This twat called for the st louis couple to be doxxed and ended up getting doxed himself

Also there are very disturbing tweets relating to pedophilia, stating 8y/0 is old enough to consent. I am not surprised at this tbh as an awful lot of these virtuous militants are mentally ill.

EbrPjx3WoAAmc6a?format=jpg&name=large

img

1800_Ladladlad

He may be a little entitled sh*T but this was a good thing done by his parents.

https://twitter.com/SaraCarterDC/status/1277234167370129408

1800_Ladladlad

Steven Nelson Lopez, 23, is facing charges of murder and first-degree wanton endangerment, A BLM protester arrested for shooting and killing a journalist (Tyler Gerth, a 27-year-old, BLM Supporter) in Louisville.

Lopez, had been involved in multiple disturbances at the camp and had to be escorted away from Jefferson Square Park before the shooting took place..

https://eu.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/28/louisville-breonna-taylor-protest-shooting-suspect-identified/3274385001/

Tyler Gerth, was white.....

Cupatae

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

These people are stupid.like what the **** do you expect to happen.

https://twitter.com/TweetBrettMac/status/1277446069132103680

The SJW surround the car in a threatening manner... why are they shocked when they get rolled over

these people are devoid of all logic, the sad thing is the media will spin this as a "sickening attack by police on innocent protesters" rather than the truth of getting out of a dangerous situation while giving the dopes a chance to get out of the way.

1800_Ladladlad

These people are stupid.like what the **** do you expect to happen.

https://twitter.com/TweetBrettMac/status/1277446069132103680

Cupatae

kildare lad wrote: »

Will black lives matter be protesting this killing of another black man ???

https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1277419635185537024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1277419635185537024%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shadowspear.com%2Fvb%2Fthreads%2FE2809Cdisband-the-copsE2809D-thread.33044%2Fpage-8

Jesus thats pretty grim... they ll prob call for the police to be defunded.

The levels of outrage will depend on the race of the victim.

kildare lad

Will black lives matter be protesting this killing of another black man ???

https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1277419635185537024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1277419635185537024%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shadowspear.com%2Fvb%2Fthreads%2FE2809Cdisband-the-copsE2809D-thread.33044%2Fpage-8

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

In Dublin some monuments came down peacefully and by government planning, but not all of them. Just look at Nelson's Pillar or the William of Orange statue in College Green for examples.

In the US there is also a mixture of primarily confederate statues being taken down forcibly and removed by way of government planning, etc. Some other changes are also occurring, one example being that Mississippi is looking very likely to change its (confederate themed) state flag while some cities like New Orleans are renaming all confederate named streets.

Mississippi has now voted to change its confederate themed state flag. Another change brought about through official act of government as a result of these protests.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/mississippi-state-flag-remove-confederate-battle-emblem/
The bill passed by a vote of 91-23 in the [Mississippi State] House and 37-14 in the Senate.

The bill now goes to the desk of Governor Tate Reeves, who on Saturday morning said he would sign the legislation into law, reversing resistance to a legislature-led change to the flag. Mississippians will vote on a replacement flag in the November election. According to the legislation, the current flag design cannot be an option.