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Is your club benefiting from the COVID lockdown?

the_syco

Was speaking to one of the lads, and his club got over 140 new members since the lockdown allowed people to golf. Predominantly people in the 20-40 range that may have played some pitch 'n putt in the past, but would have be playing other sports as their main before COVID.

Are people finding that this is the same with their clubs?

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GreeBo

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I play in a very small rural club where every penny counts. To say its in financial difficulty would be an understatement. Having sponsors is a necessity to help run the comps, yet the sponsors definitely would reap the benefits to as many club members would be very conscious of their generosity and support them when possible in by putting business their way.

"Sponsorship[1] is a cash and/or in-kind fee paid to a property (typically in sports, arts, entertainment or causes) in return for access to the exploitable commercial potential associated with that property."

Emphasis is mine.

To clarify, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it at all, its just about expectation. Many people wouldn't expect to pay €2K a year on top of a substantial joining fee and then also see the club taking sponsorship from local businesses.
The members are well within their rights to not want to be "used" by the club to generate revenue.

You don't see Joes Auto Repair sponsoring events or tees at Adare or many other courses, I don't see why its causing a furore here.

Also, thinking about it more, I believe we normally see sponsorship during society days, not during semi-opens.

joebloggs32

srfc d16 wrote: »

My club would be in the same boat as Greebo.
Off the top of my head I can only recall one sponsored event per year over the last few years and that is from the same sponsor each year.
We have local sponsorship in the form of tee boxes being sponsored.
I don't see how sponsorship would enhance a competition unless there are a pretty small pool of players entering and therefore a small prize fund.

I play in a very small rural club where every penny counts. To say its in financial difficulty would be an understatement. Having sponsors is a necessity to help run the comps, yet the sponsors definitely would reap the benefits to as many club members would be very conscious of their generosity and support them when possible in by putting business their way.
The pandemic has definitely brought in some very needed new members, who hopefully long term will stay at it. I have counted over 100 on the time sheet for this week's open singles. Last year it would have averaged about 30. I know its first week back but if the average was even 60 going forward it would be great.

the.red.baron

GreeBo wrote: »

I honestly dont think that would sit well with a lot of the members.
Personally I'm undecided, I can obviously see the benefits but I also think it can cheapen the place a little.

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srfc d16

My club would be in the same boat as Greebo.
Off the top of my head I can only recall one sponsored event per year over the last few years and that is from the same sponsor each year.
We have local sponsorship in the form of tee boxes being sponsored.
I don't see how sponsorship would enhance a competition unless there are a pretty small pool of players entering and therefore a small prize fund.

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

The idea that it would cheapen the club to accept sponsorship does hint towards the perception that golf clubs consider themselves above rather than part of a community.

The money side of it is obviously important. If a club saves 5 grand a year from accepting sponsors that can mean a lot to plenty of clubs. But there are plenty of clubs who accept sponsors because it's a way of letting members give a little bit more back and a way of helping the members.

It's disappointing to be honest to hear that some people think the local hardware store sponsoring an event would cheapen it. Now when they have a chainsaw as a prize (as I witnessed) that's a different problem, but that's another story!

Wichita Lineman

GreeBo wrote: »

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

Greebo, you were the one making 'cheapening' remarks about local sponsorship which wasnt very friendly. No bias whatsoever.

slingerz

We have a lot of local businesses sponsor our comps and i think its great to see. Often they will be connected with a member and not be a business that most could interact with or be an established local business e.g. hotel/bar and i think it has positive impact in getting people to support those businesses.

I would think for our weekly comp that €100 would cover most of the prizes. Some of the members businesses will cover the bigger comps then

GreeBo

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Local sponsorship cheapening an event..................jesus i've heard it all now. If anything it enhances the event and helps build good relationships in the area. Most of our sponsors are connected to the club through being members or they are somehow related / employers / friends of members which is how they got involved in the first place. We'd survive without the sponsorship but would definitely be worse off without the goodwill it generates in the community.

I guess that's partly why I'd rather be involved with a small friendly community based club than a large metropolitan one. Each to their own of course.

Why do you automatically assume that a large metropolitan club isn't friendly or a community?
I think that says a lot more about your bias than the reality of the situation to be honest.

Wichita Lineman

Local sponsorship cheapening an event..................jesus i've heard it all now. If anything it enhances the event and helps build good relationships in the area. Most of our sponsors are connected to the club through being members or they are somehow related / employers / friends of members which is how they got involved in the first place. We'd survive without the sponsorship but would definitely be worse off without the goodwill it generates in the community.

I guess that's partly why I'd rather be involved with a small friendly community based club than a large metropolitan one. Each to their own of course.

blue note

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Ah there no doubt but they do now. Its not that there a bad club for ones that need the income. But its not as if their a real business transaction, and I think are more associated with country club or small towns where they are like small business giving something back to the community where they all know each other. But they are begging really, and its not as if its for a charity cause where there is some helping going on, it more just having golfers give themselves better prizes for their day out having fun anyway. They always look a bit cheap to me alright, and a comfortably funded club doesnt need to resort to them. Its a bit GAA vibe to it.

It can also be a connection for a club to the community. Often the members with businesses will sponsor a comp, a bit of a way for them to give a little back. And the members might use their business a bit more. A bit of a way of supporting your fellow members.

It never crossed my mind that having a local sponsor would be cheapening an event.

Golf is my Game

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Wow.

Ah there no doubt but they do now. Its not that there a bad club for ones that need the income. But its not as if their a real business transaction, and I think are more associated with country club or small towns where they are like small business giving something back to the community where they all know each other. But they are begging really, and its not as if its for a charity cause where there is some helping going on, it more just having golfers give themselves better prizes for their day out having fun anyway. They always look a bit cheap to me alright, and a comfortably funded club doesnt need to resort to them. Its a bit GAA vibe to it.

fred funk }{

GreeBo wrote: »

I honestly dont think that would sit well with a lot of the members.
Personally I'm undecided, I can obviously see the benefits but I also think it can cheapen the place a little.

Wow.

Golf is my Game

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Can you explain how competition fees are a vital component of your clubs finances? How much does the club take in in fees? How much does it give out in prizes?

What is the subscription?

Competitions fees important to us too. Not vital, but important. About 20k-25k towards the general running of the club per year I think. About 30-40 percent of the €7 goes to prizes. Some could see it as unfair that all comp money doesnt go to comp prizes, and maybe in a rich club type setup that would be grand out. But I think its a fair cop. Effectively a surcharge on those playing on Saturdays and Sundays for prime time reserved slot golf. Its a bit the Ryanair phylosophy of charge it where you can get it. But if they didnt, then theyed have to get it by a sub rise which on the one hand could be argued is fairer that all contribute whether they play comps or not, but on the other, I think its only right that those who play at the more premium time of the week should pay a little more than just their membership for the benefit. I play about 30 weekends a year, so an extra €120 a year. Its still decent value. Even if it was shared to all the membership Id probably be looking at a 60 a year increase in my sub. Dont know the figures, but for sure it will have cost the club money not running them during the lockdown. Not sure what they would have saved in wages though.

GreeBo

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Might be an idea for you club to look in to

I honestly dont think that would sit well with a lot of the members.
Personally I'm undecided, I can obviously see the benefits but I also think it can cheapen the place a little.

mike12

ShivasIrons wrote: »

How many members do they have? What is the annual budget? What is the subscription?

Around 300 members on a 9 hole course membership around the 500 mark.

1 part time greenkeeper I think is the only employee.

blue note

the.red.baron wrote: »

Elm Green has a load of new members and has gone off and block booked half the timesheet for visitors and societies, in the post work timeslots as well

poor form really

Do they have a requirement as a public course to have a certain amount of slots available for non members or something?

Seems a bit crazy if they can't meet the demand from members that they'd open up so much to visitors.

finglashoop

the.red.baron wrote: »

Elm Green has a load of new members and has gone off and block booked half the timesheet for visitors and societies, in the post work timeslots as well

poor form really

And thats after discussing with carr golf and asking members not to bring guests

the.red.baron

Elm Green has a load of new members and has gone off and block booked half the timesheet for visitors and societies, in the post work timeslots as well

poor form really

Wichita Lineman

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Can you explain how competition fees are a vital component of your clubs finances? How much does the club take in in fees? How much does it give out in prizes?

What is the subscription?

So many questions. I'm obviously not going to quote specifics here but let's just leave it at the fact that in a small club every component of revenue is vital.

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

Only the semi-opens have sponsorship, members comps are not.

Might be an idea for you club to look in to

[Deleted User]

We are close to 100 new members. If even 30 of them become long term members that will be a good result as they are mainly in the under 40's age bracket.

GreeBo

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Do your club not have the competitions sponsored? Sponsorship could cover 60-70% of value of prizes therefore that 60-70% of entry fees goes into the coffers. I know of smaller clubs where over the course of a year net income from comps would be 40-50K.

Only the semi-opens have sponsorship, members comps are not.

moycullen14

Even if you had a 40K contribution from competitions, you only lost 3 months - say 10-15K. Same for green fees.

To me the big saving has got to be on wages. Between the various government schemes, you've got to be saving a huge amount - far in excess of any revenue loss. Never mind the increased membership.

I'd be very surprised if my club wasn't significantly better off this year than last.
The AGM will be interesting.

Miley Byrne

GreeBo wrote: »

Most of our competition entries go towards prizes for that competition and a pool for the majors (that have way more prizes)

Do your club not have the competitions sponsored? Sponsorship could cover 60-70% of value of prizes therefore that 60-70% of entry fees goes into the coffers. I know of smaller clubs where over the course of a year net income from comps would be 40-50K.

callaway92

Maybe open singles actually is a money maker.

Qualifiers once a week for 25 weeks for example

Members €5 and Visitors €15 - In the long run that might be worth some money alright but still not massive.

I would like to see a breakdown of the cut my club is taking mind you.

GreeBo

mike12 wrote: »

A lot of clubs have a 10 euro comp fee.
My brother is a member of a small club down the west they have more than a 100 play in the comps every weekend with have of the fees taken in going to the running of the club.
Over the year that's 25 to 30k which to them is a huge chunk of their budget.

Most of our competition entries go towards prizes for that competition and a pool for the majors (that have way more prizes)

ShivasIrons

mike12 wrote: »

A lot of clubs have a 10 euro comp fee.
My brother is a member of a small club down the west they have more than a 100 play in the comps every weekend with have of the fees taken in going to the running of the club.
Over the year that's 25 to 30k which to them is a huge chunk of their budget.

How many members do they have? What is the annual budget? What is the subscription?

mike12

A lot of clubs have a 10 euro comp fee.
My brother is a member of a small club down the west they have more than a 100 play in the comps every weekend with have of the fees taken in going to the running of the club.
Over the year that's 25 to 30k which to them is a huge chunk of their budget.

callaway92

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Can you explain how competition fees are a vital component of your clubs finances? How much does the club take in in fees? How much does it give out in prizes?

What is the subscription?

Yeh I'm confused about that too..

Competition profit is surely minimal?

Green fees (incl. Societies)/Annual subs are the big revenue maker.

ShivasIrons

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

We definitely have an influx of new members which we needed badly anyway but we also lost a good few for various reasons. Timesheet is very busy but not at problem levels yet. Overall our revenue will be down as we're a small club with cheap annual membership and competition fees are a vital component of our finances. Obviously not something understood by the GUI or Sport Ireland with their U-turn on competitive golf recently.

Can you explain how competition fees are a vital component of your clubs finances? How much does the club take in in fees? How much does it give out in prizes?

What is the subscription?