ILoveYourVibes wrote: » But an expression of Irish culture would not be an issue in india. They have st pats parades. There are catholic churches. Irish people would not have to change their name in india. When you read her tweets she talks about people being offended at her keeping her indian name.
olestoepoke wrote: » I lived in New York for 16 years. Yes the Irish are open about their culture and have parades and Irish bars and are very very Irish. However, the Irish community in New York have fully embraced their host nation and would never ever dream of disrespecting it in any way. I have never see an Irish flag hanging from a bar or a house without the US flag beside it.
Deleted User wrote: » Except that most of us here aren't interested in abusing her.. that comes out wrong, but you know what I mean (I hope). We're not rushing on to twitter to post nastiness on her account. Her tweet is simply up for discussion within the thread... that's not abuse. I'd expect the same of anything I posted throughout my history on the Internet. She's an adult... and that comes with consequences for what is said/done on the internet.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » I can't give you a correct representation of what the woman who wrote that tweet meant. She didn't go into detail. SHe did write some other things i can mention. But obviously they are not in depth. And it would be hard to go into further detail on twitter anyhow. So i can only give you what I might personally come up with. And this might not be relevant to HER or her Indian identity. I do know she is Hindu though. Catholic schools don't leave room for diversity often. They sort of 'claim you'. And if you don't look Indian this is even more so. There is this atmosphere of trying to make you just like everyone else. Christian holidays are huge here. And so even if people are not church goers ..easter happens. In your life. You are connected. These kind of public display of other religions are harder in smaller communities. And are sometimes even greeted with hostility. Often gradually the next generation grows up with less connection to that culture. She says that she is judged better when she 'does not fight for the integrity of her name' I know someone who changed their name from Omar to David. It was actually because he was attacked a few times. He is a lovely guy. And he felt it would help him fit in more. This could be seen as having to disavow your identity. She is judged as 'not bad at performing Irishness ' as an Indian. In order to 'become Irish' she has to give up her name identity etc.
Wibbs wrote: » How utterly daft would that read to her if she was living in India and read an Irish persons tweet? Then have the basic bloody manners not to crap on whatever country and culture you find yourself in. Pretty bloody simple I'd have thought.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » Saudi Arabia? Iran.... Yes ...we are as culturally diverse as ..Iran. Yes ....I would love to have the cultural and religious freedom Iran has.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » I mean the Irish in New York try to be VERY VERY irish. They don't hide it. Same with the Irish in london. The irish dancing the parades etc. Same with the Irish all over the world really. She feels the same does not go for people here .
Deleted User wrote: » See, I find this interesting. I'm in Athlone, where there is an Ericsson campus, which has a sizable Indian/Pakistani workforce of programmers/engineers. I live nearby the company, have done some language work myself there, and often I'll see the employees walking in groups of two-three but there's never anyone not of their race with them. In fact, I can't recall seeing them mingling with white people outside of their place of employment. Very friendly at work, and will be absolutely lovely when approached by someone, but they clump together all the time. So, this seeing Ireland through the lens of Irish culture or white people... when/how could it have happened? When do they mix with enough Irish people to really see or appreciate Ireland the way Irish people do.. or even the way white people do? Hell, I'm a little bemused to think that other people might see Ireland the way I see it. The logic behind the whole concept bothers me because it's, well, so illogical. I'm sure many Indians do involve themselves socially with Irish people, but in my own experience of Indians, both in Ireland and abroad, most of them will stick with other Indians. I can only think of one "Indian" who was different, and she was raised in Canada, not SE Asia.
Deleted User wrote: » The logic behind the whole concept bothers me because it's, well, so illogical. I'm sure many Indians do involve themselves socially with Irish people, but in my own experience of Indians, both in Ireland and abroad, most of them will stick with other Indians. I can only think of one "Indian" who was different, and she was raised in Canada, not SE Asia.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » I can't give you a correct representation of what the woman who wrote that tweet meant. She didn't go into detail. SHe did write some other things i can mention. But obviously they are not in depth. And it would be hard to go into further detail on twitter anyhow. So i can only give you what I might personally come up with. And this might not be relevant to HER or her Irish identity. I do know she is Catholic though. Hindu schools don't leave room for diversity often. They sort of 'claim you'. And if you don't look Indian this is even more so. There is this atmosphere of trying to make you just like everyone else. Hindu holidays are huge here in India. And so even if people are not temple goers ..Diwali happens. In your life. You are connected. These kind of public display of other religions are harder in smaller communities. And are sometimes even greeted with hostility. Often gradually the next generation grows up with less connection to that culture. She says that she is judged better when she 'does not fight for the integrity of her name' I know someone who changed their name from David to Omar. It was actually because he was attacked a few times. He is a lovely guy. And he felt it would help him fit in more. This could be seen as having to disavow your identity. She is judged as 'not bad at performing Indianness ' as an Irish woman. In order to 'become Indian' she has to give up her name identity etc.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » People end up where they end up. The truth is Ireland might not be a first choice for some. But it's where they are and can't afford to live elsewhere. Or the opportunities are not there.
dominatinMC wrote: » Wtf are you actually trying to say. Christian holidays are huge here because we are predominantly a Christian (whether practicing or not) country. Just like Islamic holidays are huge in Muslim countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, etc. Your attempts at "debate" are laughable really. Give it a rest and let this thread get on with some logical discussion.
Wibbs wrote: » True. It's more her surprise at the reaction that comes across as entitled. If I said the exact same thing in India as a White Irishman and got a load of Indians replying that I should bugger off back to Ireland then you whinging ingrate, it would not come as a shock to me. Though having some self awareness I'd not publicly post that in the first place. Then again Twitter is ground central for attention as the new currency types and the self absorbed however temporarily and the expectation of support for your wonderful insights.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » It isn't our Irishness that is the issue...its whiteness.
ThunbergsAreGo wrote: » To be fair the tweeter shouldnt be getting abuse. She just sounds homesick more than anything, and missing her culture - she is facing the prospect of not going home for the next while due to corona etc. The way she has worded it just comes across a bit entitled
ThunbergsAreGo wrote: » To be fair the tweeter shouldnt be getting abuse. She just sounds homesick more than anything, and missing her culture - she is facing the prospect of not going home for the next while due to corona etc. The way she has worded it just comes across a bit entitled but shes just a kid
Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post Then go to a country that isn't White or Irish. Ireland is a White European country. 93% pale of face and go back 20 years ago and it was more like 98%. Not finding that it has a "South Asian Lens" shouldn't come as a bloody shock. Crazy notion I know. It doesn't have a Polish lens or German lens, or Latvian, or British lens either. And guess what there are more of the above list living here compared to South Asians.
Deleted User wrote: » Can you give an example of how one might encourage another to disavow their identity?
Wibbs wrote: » Then go to a country that isn't White or Irish. Ireland is a White European country. 93% pale of face and go back 20 years ago and it was more like 98%. Not finding that it has a "South Asian Lens" shouldn't come as a bloody shock. Crazy notion I know. It doesn't have a Polish lens or German lens, or Latvian, or British lens either. And guess what there are more of the above list living here compared to South Asians.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » She was a child. This is an immature unrealistic perception of how life works. People move for jobs education etc. Or more likely simply because their parents took them. I mean yes you could go and live in china etc. But your job and life might be here. .
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » I disagree. However I don't think its only white people who can be racist. But its not an issue relevant to this particular thing. I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland. But that is my understanding of what she has said.
Hamachi wrote: » Why would somebody who has an issue with ‘whiteness’ deliberately move to a country that was > 99% white not two decades ago and remains ~95% white? At best, it’s an illogical decision. Otherwise, it’s just plain masochistic.
Deleted User wrote: » Do you not think perhaps that Klaz has a point? We've both made our lives in Asia and we can see how utterly absurd it would be for us to come out and publicly complain that there are too many ethnic Asians in Asian countries and there should be more white people. It could genuinely be an Onion headline.
Me. Earlier wrote: » it's all about feels, not logic. Hence it's so over the place as emotionals tend to be and why that kind of argument is resistant to logic and debate.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » May I remind people that Ireland is 88% white.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » I don't think her issue is with Irishness. Its just the whiteness of ireland.
ILoveYourVibes wrote: » So lets stop talking about the person who made the Tweet and whether or not they have the right to free speech... speak about what was tweeted. Does Ireland see people through a white lens ?? And do you encourage people to disavow their identities?
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