Public service pay cut?

addaword wrote: »

When the country is borrowing to pay public sector wages, if you are so concerned about the survival of private sector businesses would it not be better to give this money direct to the businesses, rather than give it to public servants, many of whom spend the extra discretionary income on foreign websites and foreign holidays and imported goods, so the money goes straight out of the country again?

You've got a very presumptuous view on public servants if you think they have extra discretionary income and that they are spending it on foreign holidays and imported goods. Public servants are the same "squeezed middle" that are paying all the same taxes that the private sector pay. They are not much more likely to have any more discretionary income; after they pay their rent, childcare costs, groceries, car repayments etc., than most of the private sector. So it's a bit of a myth you are peddling in that regard..

Sinzo wrote: »

You've got a very presumptuous view on public servants if you think they have extra discretionary income and that they are spending it on foreign holidays and imported goods. Public servants are the same "squeezed middle" that are paying all the same taxes that the private sector pay. They are not much more likely to have any more discretionary income; after they pay their rent, childcare costs, groceries, car repayments etc., than most of the private sector. So it's a bit of a myth you are peddling in that regard..

Rubbish. The CSO wrote last November that the average public sector worker earned €271 PER WEEK more than the average private sector worker. So yes, they are likely on average to have more discretionary income.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Teachers' pay and pension must be massively cut. Overpaid and lazy leeches.

Not all are lazy, but yes some are.

blanch152

addaword wrote: »

My kids are already well paid, in secure and pensionable jobs, when hundreds of thousands of others in the economy have fallen on tough times, through no fault of their own, over the past 3 months. For the greater good, and looking at the medium and long term, they know a pay rise would be be unjustifiable and deeply unfair.

The real truth here is that your kids have done better than their parent in getting a decently-paid public service job that pays better than the menial low-paid job their parent had, but they are still falling far short of the well-heeled employees in finance, legal, pharmaceutical and IT private sector jobs who are on much higher money.

Sorry for your poor life decisions, and sorry for your kids who have not been given good direction if they want to get rich, but them's the choices you made.

blanch152 wrote: »

The real truth here is that your kids have done better than their parent in getting a decently-paid public service job that pays better than the menial low-paid job their parent had, but they are still falling far short of the well-heeled employees in finance, legal, pharmaceutical and IT private sector jobs who are on much higher money.

Sorry for your poor life decisions, and sorry for your kids who have not been given good direction if they want to get rich, but them's the choices you made.

You are telling so many lies and making so many assumptions there, that your post is not worth commenting on. They actually are in a secure pensionable job on higher money than many of their friends in finance, legal, pharmaceutical and IT private sector jobs

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

addaword wrote: »

They actually are in a secure pensionable job on higher money than many of their friends in finance, legal, pharmaceutical and IT private sector jobs

Just on this, to provide context, are you willing to mention what branch(es) of the Public Sector they're working in?

It depends on what their friends are doing in those fields. Legal can mean you're a Barrister on big bucks or a Legal Secretary being paid buttons.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

It depends on what their friends are doing in those fields. Legal can mean you're a Barrister on big bucks or a Legal Secretary being paid buttons.

It most certainly does. And you forget many people work in small companies. Something like 75% of the 2 million people in the private sector work in SMEs. Even multinationals can be quite shrewd employers too, and often do not pay more than they have to. They are not all googles.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

addaword wrote: »

It most certainly does. And you forget many people work in small companies. Something like 75% of the 2 million people in the private sector work in SMEs. Even multinationals can be quite shrewd employers too, and often do not pay more than they have to. They are not all googles.

No, they aren't all Googles, I am not forgetting the presence of SME's, that's why I'm saying it very much depends on what they do and where they work. I'm not arguing the toss with you on any of that.

I did, however, ask if you were willing to give me an idea of what branch of the Public Sector your children work in. Like in the private sector, the gap between what they could be earning varies wildly between roles.

addaword wrote: »

Rubbish. The CSO wrote last November that the average public sector worker earned €271 PER WEEK more than the average private sector worker. So yes, they are likely on average to have more discretionary income.

Not all are lazy, but yes some are.

The vast majority of civil servants are at clerical officer grade ... max of scale after many years is ca. 38k . This is less than the average industrial wage of ca 41k. The rest of the public service is generally comprised of nurses, teachers, gardai, social workers, speech and language therapists, doctors, legal professionals etc. These workers generally have higher qualifications than the private sector as a whole and/or thdy have highly onorous, responsible and often difficult jobs. If you have equivalent jobs in the private sector with a large to medium employer (like the government is) you will tend to be paid at higher rates. So its not simply the gravy train that you would like to point out. If you have low qualifications and get a job with, for example, Glanbia, you are really on the pigs back. Glanbia is a very successful business and therefore it can afford to pay decent wages. The public service obviously has a different purpose. Its purpose is public services and not private profit. Which of these is more important is a matter of political opinion. In my opinion public service and social harmony are more important but we must try to marry that with a vibrant capitalist economy also but that is another argument. In my experience, even if the public service has more income then firstly they must be paying more taxes. Secondly, the vast majority are still struggling to pay all their bills. Foreign holidays are not the remit of public servants to any greater extent than the private sector and where do you think most public sector workers spend all this extra cash?? Yes, that's right, in the private sector. Helping private sector workers keep their jobs.
So you need to have a more balanced view of the situation rather than make assumptions and judgements from what may be, I dare say, your own little private sector, ivory tower - sorry if I was a bit presumptuous there.

Sinzo wrote: »

In my experience, even if the public service has more income then firstly they must be paying more taxes. Secondly, the vast majority are still struggling to pay all their bills. Foreign holidays are not the remit of public servants to any greater extent than the private sector .

Come off ot. According to the CSO last November, the average public sector worker €271 PER WEEK more than the average private sector worker. Of course the average private sector worker struggles more to pay Bill's and spends less on holidays. Plus the average private sector does not have any great security - how many now find themselves out of work over the past few months? And factor in the lack of a DB pension for the vast majority of the private sector. Get real.

barneystinson

addaword wrote: »

Come off ot. According to the CSO last November, the average public sector worker €271 PER WEEK more than the average private sector worker. Of course the average private sector worker struggles more to pay Bill's and spends less on holidays. Plus the average private sector does not have any great security - how many now find themselves out of work over the past few months? And factor in the lack of a DB pension for the vast majority of the private sector. Get real.

However many posts into a thread and you still clearly don't understand averages. You definitely wouldn't pass either the numerical reasoning or verbal reasoning part of a civil service test...

If you read a report from the CSO referencing that the average person has roughly half a penis and half a vagina you'd be posting about the alarming rise in hermaphrodism.

barneystinson wrote: »

However many posts into a thread and you still clearly don't understand averages. You definitely wouldn't pass either the numerical reasoning or verbal reasoning part of a civil service test...

.

I clearly understand averages a lot better than you. Now unless you are a retired civil servant I thought you are not suppose to post so much during the day?

kippy

addaword wrote: »

I clearly understand averages a lot better than you. Now unless you are a retired civil servant I thought you are not suppose to post so much during the day?

People can take various forms of leave whent hey chose and if the poster is a teacher they're off at the moment.........

You haven't a clue about averages, a cursory glance over your posting history shows that.
You've also a poor grasp of reading comprehension.

barneystinson

addaword wrote: »

I clearly understand averages a lot better than you. Now unless you are a retired civil servant I thought you are not suppose to post so much during the day?

If you did understand averages you wouldn't be trying to compare the average of 2 completely incomparable groups. Unless you do understand averages but are citing the global averages to be completely disingenuous... I suppose that's a possibility alright. So which is it..??

Are you busy at work yourself today?

addaword wrote: »

Come off ot. According to the CSO last November, the average public sector worker €271 PER WEEK more than the average private sector worker. Of course the average private sector worker struggles more to pay Bill's and spends less on holidays. Plus the average private sector does not have any great security - how many now find themselves out of work over the past few months? And factor in the lack of a DB pension for the vast majority of the private sector. Get real.

Quick point. IF the public sector worker earns 271 extra per week then more than half of it goes on tax, pension, prsi and USC. Now we are down to 130 per week. Net. As has already been stated comparisons between public and private are extremely difficult due to the many factors involved. I suggest that you look up publicjobs.ie. you could get really lucky with a job in the public service.

Sinzo wrote: »

Quick point. IF the public sector worker earns 271 extra per week then more than half of it goes on tax, pension, prsi and USC. Now we are down to 130 per week. Net. As has already been stated comparisons between public and private are extremely difficult due to the many factors involved. I suggest that you look up publicjobs.ie. you could get really lucky with a job in the public service.

Job security is an advantage in public service but things are rapidly changing and there are less guarantees even in the public sector about job security and flexibility is now demanded by the powers that be. If you were unfortunate enough to lose your job due to Covid then the government has tried to assist. Not perfect but no nonetheless people have been helped. Who do you think administered the payment of 720k PUP payments or the 400 I wage subsidy schemes.. yes public servants. Who put their lives on the line in public health.. yes public servants. Who recent lost his life while working for the public good at the hands of a mentally I'll man.. yes a public servant.
I dont know what you mean by db pension?

Treppen

addaword wrote: »

When the country is borrowing to pay public sector wages, if you are so concerned about the survival of private sector businesses would it not be better to give this money direct to the businesses, rather than give it to public servants, many of whom spend the extra discretionary income on foreign websites and foreign holidays and imported goods, so the money goes straight out of the country again?

Like farming subsidies?

Treppen wrote: »

Like farming subsidies?

And county enterprise board funding of businesses, dept of social protection back to work schemes and subsidising private employment with working family payments or jobseekers allowance payments to self employed people

Sinzo wrote: »

I dont know what you mean by db pension?

You are nearly as bad as barney and kippy, who actually have the audacity to complain about others who they claim do not understand averages! DB pension mean defined benefit pension, which everyone in the public service enjoys but extremely few in the private sector can get or have.

addaword wrote: »

You are nearly as bad as barney and kippy, who actually have the audacity to complain about others who they claim do not understand averages! DB pension mean defined benefit pension, which everyone in the public service enjoys but extremely few in the private sector can get or have.

Everyone in the public sector has a DB pension?
What utter nonsense- you know absolutely f*ckall about what you talking about!

If you must constantly make up lies to make your point, well then you really have no point

EndaHonesty

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Everyone in the public sector has a DB pension?
What utter nonsense- you know absolutely f*ckall about what you talking about!

If you must constantly make up lies to make your point, well then you really have no point

Every public sector employee who works long enough to qualify for one, gets a DB pension.

DB pensions are essentially unavailable to the private worker.

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Every public sector employee who works long enough to qualify for one, gets a DB pension.

DB pensions are essentially unavailable to the private worker.

It's just not true to say that every PS work gets a DB pension.
It's an intentional lie to try derail the thread

EndaHonesty

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

It's just not true to say that every PS work gets a DB pension.
It's an intentional lie to try derail the thread

Which public sector employees don't get a DB pension?

[Deleted User]

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Every public sector employee who works long enough to qualify for one, gets a DB pension.

DB pensions are essentially unavailable to the private worker.

You're either willfully ignorant or just a troll. Every single hire in the PS and CS since 2013, over 100k people at this stage,do not have a DB pension.

tayto lover

I get a great kick out of reading the jealousy here.

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Which public sector employees don't get a DB pension?

For one: Me.

I've a DC pension

Two: my wife

DC pension.

Sarn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're either willfully ignorant or just a troll. Every single hire in the PS and CS since 2013, over 100k people at this stage,do not have a DB pension.

The terms of the post 2013 pensions might be different, but they are still defined benefit pensions.

History Queen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're either willfully ignorant or just a troll. Every single hire in the PS and CS since 2013, over 100k people at this stage,do not have a DB pension.

A troll. I've asked him repeatedly to outline the different pensions the PS have and he refused instead mocking me for my lack of knowledge. The reason I asked is because I was trying to establish if he didn't know about the different schemes or was just trolling. His rude responses to me led me to believe he was just trolling. He doesn't acknowledge anything that doesn't fit his own narrative.

Apologies: I just realised I mixed Enda up with another poster on same topic!

EndaHonesty

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

For one: Me.

I've a DC pension

Two: my wife

DC pension.

So you don't know, today, how much your pension will pay when you retire?

Sarn wrote: »

The terms of the post 2013 pensions might be different, but they are still defined benefit pensions.

No- they are defined contribution
The key is in the wording - when you look at your PS contract and it says Defined Contribution pension