Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's the thing Mort...they work with SF every day of the week throughout the country at local and county level.

When it comes to letting go of the power share/power swap, it's suddenly different. When it comes to the north SF are good enough and indeed are implored and embarrassed to go into power. Yet, FG/FF will talk the talk of inclusiveness and equality and democracy in the GFA.

The forked tongue of the ultimately un-democratic. They have been pressured into the corner of merging now in this government. Take the fan glasses off, it isn't hard to see what is happening.

So speaks the forked tongue again.

If Sinn Fein are in power in the North, how do you explain the horrific way they treated those who lost their jobs because of Covid-19 with miniscule social welfare payments?..............oh wait, they are not in power in the North, because the UK are in control.............................So if the North administration is not in control of the North, why did the IRA surrender to the GFA?...................................the IRA did not surrender, they won.....................Then why don't we have a united Ireland?

And so it goes around and around. The forked tongue of republicanism, whereby no responsibility falls on Sinn Fein or the IRA, that it is always someone else's fault, that they lie and dissemble and contradict themselves, over and over again.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh blanch...it's a protest or demonstration. Nobody's buying coloured shirts and forming militaristic troops of men in the Phoenix Park and Sieg Heiling.

Francie, the point you are clearly missing, is that what you are calling for (and to be fair, I don't see Sinn Fein calling for it) is street protests against a recent democratic outcome to a recent democratic electoral process.

There is no other way to call that, and the only precedents are in 1930s Germany. It is a protest against democracy.

The #notmytaoiseach on Twitter is similar, but you are taking it to another sinister level.

Bonniedog wrote: »

Liam Adams raping his daughter is not an "allegation." Nor is the SF/IRA cover up and their sending him to Dundalk.

Nor was rape of Paudie Gahon by another of the Belfast "elite."

Or perhaps you were referring to facts about past elections as "allegations," in the same way as extracts from three inter-governmental agreements were made up

You should be in 44 or Connolly House working with the rest of the drones.

Liam Adams died in jail for his crimes.

Nobody, has condoned what happened in his case. SF and G. Adams have issued apologies for what happened there.

Contrast that with the campaign run by a woman and her family to get Michael Martin to face up to allegations against the Ceann Comhairle in the run up to the outbreak of Covid.
Martin has yet to address it. Yet there he is politically exploiting another alleged victim on the steps of Dáil when it was politically expedient for him.

Indeed the frenzy to find 'victims' of the RA and SF was so intense that Regina Doherty claimed at one point to be aware of over 40 cases being investigated. It all amounted to a hill of beans though.

Look what FG and FF did to Louise O'Keefe for another example of the forked tongues.

Nobody, individually or organisationally, handled these incidents in this country and indeed across the world, well or properly.

Know when you are being bull****ted and being led by the nose or played in politics would be my advise to you.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More of the allegations without back up there. Lazy and tired.

Liam Adams raping his daughter is not an "allegation." Nor is the SF/IRA cover up and their sending him to Dundalk.

Nor was rape of Paudie Gahon by another of the Belfast "elite."

Or perhaps you were referring to facts about past elections as "allegations," in the same way as extracts from three inter-governmental agreements were made up

You should be in 44 or Connolly House working with the rest of the drones.

Mortelaro wrote: »

In the face of the above head in the sand stuff,I know it might be asking a bit much but...
Perhaps some humility instead of this arrogance?
Try genuinely a look to why parties won't work with you and change this
That would be real change

That's the thing Mort...they work with SF every day of the week throughout the country at local and county level.

When it comes to letting go of the power share/power swap, it's suddenly different. When it comes to the north SF are good enough and indeed are implored and embarrassed to go into power. Yet, FG/FF will talk the talk of inclusiveness and equality and democracy in the GFA.

The forked tongue of the ultimately un-democratic. They have been pressured into the corner of merging now in this government. Take the fan glasses off, it isn't hard to see what is happening.

Poor_old_gill

So on top of:

Being run by a shady army council
Having anti-vax conspiracy theorists
Having anti-5G conspiracy theorists
Engaging in anti- gay rhetoric
Engaging in anti-immigrant rhetoric
Running a large propaganda campaign
Wanting to close the special criminal court
Happy to have elected TD (Ferris) collect the murders of Detective McCabe from jail

We can now add:

Organising a protest against democracy!

Can the SF supporters not see why other parties & 76% of the electorate are genuinely worried about them getting near a position of power

aido79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And in those elections FF and FG opposed one another on policy and programme for government.

They did this time too. The problem was that the two of them locked out another party that got a bigger mandate than either of them by refusing to negotiate. There was no onus on them to reach an agreement, it was the dismissive manner in which they refused to recognise the mandate of 24%

They can bleat all they want...the optics that this government has is that FG and FF, rather than lose power, coalesced after 100 years to take power. That is what people from across the Dáíl are going to protest.

:D I don't think the biggest fans FF and FG have on here (oh yes...and the Greens) crying about them using their right to protest is gonna make a pile of difference Mort.

I'm so sick of hearing this mandate of 24% stuff and Sinn Fein being locked out. In theory it might sound like they were locked out but in reality I don't think any combination of FG/FF and SF would last very long if it even got past the initial formation stage.

Think a few steps further ahead. SF couldn't form a government without involving either FF or FG. The numbers just weren't there for anything else.
Do you think SF could have agreed a programme for government with either FG or FF, most likely FF as FG know it would be a doomed exercise before even sitting down with SF?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And in those elections FF and FG opposed one another on policy and programme for government.

They did this time too. The problem was that the two of them locked out another party that got a bigger mandate than either of them by refusing to negotiate. There was no onus on them to reach an agreement, it was the dismissive manner in which they refused to recognise the mandate of 24%

They can bleat all they want...the optics that this government has is that FG and FF, rather than lose power, coalesced after 100 years to take power. That is what people from across the Dáíl are going to protest.

:D I don't think the biggest fans FF and FG have on here (oh yes...and the Greens) crying about them using their right to protest is gonna make a pile of difference Mort.

In the face of the above head in the sand stuff,I know it might be asking a bit much but...
Perhaps some humility instead of this arrogance?
Try genuinely a look to why parties won't work with you and change this
That would be real change

blanch152 wrote: »

It seems that I am constantly having to explain previous government situations to you.

In 2007, Fine Gael got 27.3% of the vote, up 4.8% since the 2002 election. The clear winners of the election, but Fianna Fail, the Progressive Democrats and the Greens excluded them from negotiations and formed a government.

We didn't see childish street protests from ignorant FG supporters then, did we?

Your position is reminiscent of the early 1930s in Germany, where one party organised street protests and forced a series of inconclusive elections before bullying their way to power without a majority. We know where that ended.

Oh blanch...it's a protest or demonstration. Nobody's buying coloured shirts and forming militaristic troops of men in the Phoenix Park and Sieg Heiling.

aido79

blanch152 wrote: »

They'll probably forget to vote the next time, half of them only voted because Sinn Fein shipped them down to the polling station in cars.

Some of them are a bit like the people who only do the lotto when the jackpot is massive and then think there's no point in doing it again when they don't win.

On another note it's good to see all of the businesses and organisations including Sinn Fein back to work today after a few months off.

Mortelaro wrote: »

You're just talking rubbish
Over several decades, Fianna Fail excluded FG from government and vice versa and that's a fact
FG of course got on with it, as did FF instead of all this arrogant whinging SF are doing

And in those elections FF and FG opposed one another on policy and programme for government.

They did this time too. The problem was that the two of them locked out another party that got a bigger mandate than either of them by refusing to negotiate. There was no onus on them to reach an agreement, it was the dismissive manner in which they refused to recognise the mandate of 24%

They can bleat all they want...the optics that this government has is that FG and FF, rather than lose power, coalesced after 100 years to take power. That is what people from across the Dáíl are going to protest.

:D I don't think the biggest fans FF and FG have on here (oh yes...and the Greens) crying about them using their right to protest is gonna make a pile of difference Mort.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Protest' is your democratic right.

The last government caused more than enough and protest changed things during the term of the last governments.

The quickest governmental u-turn I have ever seen was caused by the sudden strength of protest against Charlie Flanagan's an Leo's wee plan to state honour the RIC.

Protest is a democratic right, but protest against a democratic outcome? That isn't a legitimate democratic protest.

You are arguing for a very undemocratic step to be taken.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Protest' is your democratic right.

The last government caused more than enough and protest changed things during the term of the last governments.

The quickest governmental u-turn I have ever seen was caused by the sudden strength of protest against Charlie Flanagan's an Leo's wee plan to state honour the RIC.

Ah Christ, is that all you have?

We should play 'SF soundbite' bingo with you Francie.

joeguevara wrote: »

But equally SF should also own what they have done. I’m not talking about the usual sh1te but the fact that they completely fcucked up their strategy by running a low number of candidate. They should also own the fact that they cannot expect instant access to parties when they have done nothing but abuse and shout (not even debate) at every twist and turn.

I never heard the use of Democrats in reference to irish politics but whateve, if you really believe when you say so called democrats then there is no point in engaging with SF supporters. Respect the decision.

'Protest' is your democratic right.

The last government caused more than enough and protest changed things during the term of the last governments.

The quickest governmental u-turn I have ever seen was caused by the sudden strength of protest against Charlie Flanagan's an Leo's wee plan to state honour the RIC.

christy c

Mortelaro wrote: »

...instead of all this arrogant whinging SF are doing

I think this is an interesting point. FG are seen as the arrogant party (probably justified or at least partly justified), but SF are giving them a run for their money these days. Even some of their supporters are getting in on the act.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I think if two parties refuse to talk to them and come together themselves to form a government then the 24% have the right to protest that.

It seems that I am constantly having to explain previous government situations to you.

In 2007, Fine Gael got 27.3% of the vote, up 4.8% since the 2002 election. The clear winners of the election, but Fianna Fail, the Progressive Democrats and the Greens excluded them from negotiations and formed a government.

We didn't see childish street protests from ignorant FG supporters then, did we?

Your position is reminiscent of the early 1930s in Germany, where one party organised street protests and forced a series of inconclusive elections before bullying their way to power without a majority. We know where that ended.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Proportional representation didn't work for 24% because two parties froze out that 24%.
If you do that expect protest.

Again, two parties froze out a third. That is going to bring protest. Did you seriously think a mandate of 24% was just going to go silently into the night?

What hypocritical nonsense.

If Mary-Lou had been able to get her act together after the election, and pull the 87 non-FF, non-FG TDs into a single coherent voice, then she would have had no hesitation in freezing out FF and FG.

We are more than fed up hearing from her that that is what she wants to do. This really is a situation where SF have been found out in the step-up to senior hurling. Crying about being beaten, whinging that it isn't fair, instead of acknowledging that they were outplayed and outsmarted.

mattser

Mortelaro wrote: »

You're just talking rubbish
Over several decades, Fianna Fail excluded FG from government and vice versa and that's a fact
FG of course got on with it, as did FF instead of all this arrogant whinging SF are doing

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Let them rest Mort. They were up very early this morning.

For Forks Sake

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG have never been excluded from negotiating on behalf of their mandate...

You're just talking rubbish
Over several decades, Fianna Fail excluded FG from government and vice versa and that's a fact
FG of course got on with it, as did FF instead of all this arrogant whinging SF are doing

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most new governments get the dignity of a grace period. This one has not earned that.

That is the feeling among those who perceive a forked tongue among these so called democrats.

Own what was done because it is going to be the theme of their tenure, however long it lasts.

What are you saying. I have never heard any government that after x amount of months there was a march against them. None when the bailout was implemented. None when mobile phone licences were sold. Yes there were marches for things like water charges but they weren’t a minority trying to oust an elected government.

markodaly wrote: »

Pray tell why?
Oh because you tell us so?

You sound like one of those Trump supporters!

The government have been in office 48 hours, and we have SF and PBP protesting it.....

Where were they for the past 4 months? Did these two parties agree on a common platform or policy position?
Last I heard, RBB sent SF a letter and then, nothing! Tumbleweed!

That is how much we should take these guys seriously.

Mary Lou was missing for most of those 4 months with Covid. Richard Boyd Barret was openly pleading for left parties to try and come together.

There was a half hearted approach for a national government to deal with Covid but when every turn was lambasted the acting government saw it as more of a hindrance. The time to mobilise and march together to push through a plan was for the last number of months. Don’t use Covid as an excuse as it didn’t matter when BLM marches were on. I didn’t see one social media post of SF seeking proposals. Think they met the greens but came to nothing.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most new governments get the dignity of a grace period. This one has not earned that.

Pray tell why?
Oh because you tell us so?

You sound like one of those Trump supporters!

The government have been in office 48 hours, and we have SF and PBP protesting it.....

Where were they for the past 4 months? Did these two parties agree on a common platform or policy position?
Last I heard, RBB sent SF a letter and then, nothing! Tumbleweed!

That is how much we should take these guys seriously.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most new governments get the dignity of a grace period. This one has not earned that.

That is the feeling among those who perceive a forked tongue among these so called democrats.

Own what was done because it is going to be the theme of their tenure, however long it lasts.

But equally SF should also own what they have done. I’m not talking about the usual sh1te but the fact that they completely fcucked up their strategy by running a low number of candidate. They should also own the fact that they cannot expect instant access to parties when they have done nothing but abuse and shout (not even debate) at every twist and turn.

I never heard the use of Democrats in reference to irish politics but whateve, if you really believe when you say so called democrats then there is no point in engaging with SF supporters. Respect the decision.

Most new governments get the dignity of a grace period. This one has not earned that.

That is the feeling among those who perceive a forked tongue among these so called democrats.

Own what was done because it is going to be the theme of their tenure, however long it lasts.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG have never been excluded from negotiating on behalf of their mandate...there is no telling what they would do. I won't mention the famous coloured shirts in their history suffice to say we have no idea what they would do if that happened for a prolonged period.

Protest has been a legitimate way to express a view since the foundation of the state. Get over it Mark and maybe get used to it, because I think you and your party are going to have endure a lot of it based on the bed you have made for yourselves.

And wow...I'm just flabbergasted you have come to the view that SF and PBP supporters are acting like 'idiots', is that new?

It protests for the sake of protesting. The government is what, one day old and they are out there like idiots protesting it already because sure, what else can they do?
SF had 4 months to try and cobble together some form of government but now, sure 'rabble rabble rabble!'
SF are delighted of course deep down. It carries on about the establishment blah blah blah are being mean to them.

They are like the same people who wanted Obama to fail back in 2008 because they were idiots.

SF want this government to fail thus they want Ireland to be in a worse state.
And they call themselves Irish nationalists?

Another result that marching against the democratically elected government is that all you are cultivating is divide. What will be the chants that will be heard during it? It will hardly be we respect your parties, we respect that you have enough seats but we want another bite of the cherry? Or you are liars, you hoodwinked the people who voted for us, we have no respect for what you stand for. How would it then look if there was another election and by some spectacular event you jumped into bed with FF and the Greens. Wouldn’t the people marching be a bit concerned that they were previously told that they were liars and against the working people but they are different?

Another thing that marching will cultivate is a belief by any party that SF goes into coalition with is the default for any conflict is march, didn’t get a deal over the line march, homelessness went up march, Apple tax went to Apple march. Jaysus it will be like jJuly the 12th every week.

I remember during the Lisbon Treaty referendum and the subsequent changes SF were the most vocal that a second referendum was undemocratic. So what’s different. You didn’t get the result you wanted so want to go again. It’s not like retaking a penalty kick cause you weren’t ready and messed up.

Bonniedog wrote: »

FF never talked to FG about forming a government until 5 months ago! Even when FG had a lot more votes than SF. And vice versa.

You really don't get this democracy thing do you? No party is under any obligation to take any other party into power.

Shinners just love this self pitying thing. Not much pity for the children raped by their members, or those beaten and shot to death AFTER the ceasefire because they crossed them in some way.

During northern elections shinners intimidated Aontú and PBP canvassers in places like West Belfast that they consider to be their "manor."

Slightest thing happens to them and its pathetic whinging 24/7

Fk them. Big Boy Pants

More of the allegations without back up there. Lazy and tired.

Protests are not whinging. Two parties (the two party's who just coincidently swapped power for 100 yrs) have had their vote chipped away and have come together to prevent another getting into government. Stand up and own that.

That is going to be protested. If they are big enough to ignore 24% of the population they are big enough to endure a protest. Never heard such whinging.