downcow wrote: » I am not confusing anything. Republicans will not want their blatant sectarianism exposed for all to see with the facts laid out. ....and I had never even heard of john McKeague. But the IRAs main figurehead protected a paedophile rapist brother and in just one of his pieces of work he masterminded the burning to death of 12 Protestants out for dinner for no reason other that their religion, and says he was never in the ira, and organised the killing of Jean mcconville. So your main man was a paedo-protecting, sectarian, woman-killer and pathological liar. Who has mysteriously became wealthy. You see the problem !
downcow wrote: » Since you are saying there are only a few hundred then I would need to know how you are defining them as I reckon there are thousands.
FrancieBrady wrote: » You set up a commission to review each request. NI isn't that big. Not asking for an itemised list. CAIN and other sources estimate several hundred. Do you agree with the principle of removing all offensive memorials?
Junkyard Tom wrote: » You're probably confusing Republicans with 'any Taig will do' unionist paramilitaries, one of these paramilitary groups was literally set up by a psychopathic sectarian paedophile.
downcow wrote: » I am certain militant republicans will not entertain this, because for the first time ever, the horrors of the blatantly sectarian murder-fest will be exposed for all to see.
downcow wrote: » Quite simply because we would be discussing, and trying to reach agreement on, the full list of offensive memorials for the next 50 years. This is why I have tried to narrow you down to see if you can even name one or two in your own community. It is incredibly subjective what is an offensive memorial, and you will find dozens in every small town and village, whether it be buildings named, memorial stones, cenotaphs, sporting clubs named, the list goes on and on. Are you really telling me that you think agreement could be reached on the full list of offensive memorials to be removed? Or would you be happy to spend 50 years discussing it thereby removing any need to do anything?
jm08 wrote: » Since they cause so much trouble it might be the only option now at this stage. r!
FrancieBrady wrote: » You are great at praising yourself for 'answering every question you are asked'. Could you answer this one: Why is a public space devoid of offensive memorials 'unachievable'?
jm08 wrote: » Since they cause so much trouble it might be the only option now at this stage. What do you think of having a museum to house all memorials and tell the story of the Troubles so as to remove them from ad hoc stuff on the streets? It works fairly well down here - and we actually had a Civil War where families were divided on either side and it has taken a 100 years for the two main parties to actually go into Government together!
downcow wrote: » Are you for real?. “All flags should be banned up there”. Hahaha
gormdubhgorm wrote: » No I can't because I can see codology from both sides all the time. Republicans whinging about flags picture showing loyalist flagshttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Gxp1jWek3YgJ:https://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/2020/06/27/news/mary-kelly-do-unionist-politicians-understand-the-reality-of-their-flag-culture--1984450/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie An Alliance proposal to stop the Union flag flying all year round at sites in Ards and North Down has been defeated.https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/alliance-proposal-to-stop-flying-union-flag-year-round-defeated-39000809.html Whinging whining and moaning. You would swear it is all one sided. Pair of them in it. Which is why There should be a move towards a more apolitical common ground simple as that. But they are all glorified county councillors in NI so what would I expect I suppose. Some want more statues built - but not those from the political sphere thankfullyhttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oNApgoPVjhcJ:https://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/2020/06/27/news/jake-o-kane-rather-than-let-statues-divide-us-even-further-i-say-we-build-more-1985667/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie Which is along the lines I think is the way to go.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Unionists would fight that tooth and nail, they want Republicans/Nationalists to make themselves invisible while they spend all summer waving flags and marching around the place. Can you not see this?
jm08 wrote: » All these memorials and monuments are a British imperialist thing. It took 80 years after the death of Michael Collins before he got a statue in his hometown! Similarly for Dev who has one down in Clare. A lot of these problems would have been solved if they used the Maze to house a museum of the troubles for both sides and keep them off the streets. All flags should be banned as well up there.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I agree with this bit anyway put all the stuff from both sides in one spot. So they can all be looked at. Surprised a joint statue of 'the Chuckle Brothers' (McGuinness and Paisley) has not being considered.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I agree with this bit anyway put all the stuff from both sides in one spot. So they can all be looked at.
jm08 wrote: » A lot of these problems would have been solved if they used the Maze to house a museum of the troubles for both sides and keep them off the streets. All flags should be banned as well up there.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » As for the gaslighting thing yes it was appropriated from a 1944 film but it became a buzzword in about 2018https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gaslighting-is-a-buzzword-right-now-but-use-it-with-caution-173308https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/18/gaslighting-gammon-year-buzzwords-oxford-dictionaries I never said conversational memorials were unique to Ni. What is unique to NI is the hypocrisy and points scoring in such a small area of land. From a people who are all probably related anyway. Example: Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinnesshttp://www.ssi-developer.net/macaonghusa/name-variations.shtml
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Well I hope your right because I am sick listening to all the carry on of the DUP and SF. But partition was not only caused by Unionists it was caused by Republicans as well. If the long game was played instead of crash, bang, wallop Republicanism.Ireland would be better off today. I still think things should be left well enough alone rather than risking chaos.
Fionn1952 wrote: » A term from the 1930s/40s is an internet trendy buzzword now, GDG?!? Certainly there is merit in cross-community groups deciding place names (or feasibly a blanket ban on anyone involved with The Troubles on either side for now until more time passes), but the idea that controversial memorials are unique to NI is absurd. Ignoring a discussion on the merits of Black Lives Matter, you'll notice there are controversial statues all around the world being targeted through this movement. Closer to home, the Sean Russell statue is hardly uncontroversial.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » Hilarious isn't it? I wasn't going to bother trying to explain that.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » This is largely caused by partition itself and Republicanism doesn't stop at where the border was. I fully expect moderates to inherit the north in the wake of a United Ireland particularly former unionists as the 'never, never, never' unionists of yesteryear will have nothing to offer, or gain, by playing the 'Lundy' card against their own.
Fionn1952 wrote: » A term from the 1930s/40s is an internet trendy buzzword now, GDG?!?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » I don't want all this codology brought in the ROI I believe all this little things add up and increase bitterness. I think until this is sorted out a UI will not work, the middle ground will be put by it.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Using internet trendy buzzwords like gaslit are not going to make your arguement seem any stronger. I am made my points perfectly clear. 'Remembering dead' is NI code for winding up the other-side and creating divisiveness . Both sides do it. But it does not seem to be the done thing to say it. I don't want all this codology brought in the ROI I believe all this little things add up and increase bitterness. I think until this is sorted out a UI will not work, the middle ground will be put by it. As I said in a previous post I suggest events from academics or local levels. And cross community committees who can decide on rename places and so on. What is wrong with that? As they up North they should 'catch themselves on'. And stop the pantomimes of piss taking.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » You have a suspect understanding of Unionism and seem to have been gaslit by it. I'm unaware of Republicans demanding Unionists/loyalists stop remembering their dead. Meanwhile Unionists make a culture out of remembering those who terrorised their nationalist neighbours for decades in the RUC/UDR/UVF and assorted unionist paramilitaries. As for the Downcow challenge as patently ridiculous it is I think the guy who blew up Frizzles Fish shop should be remembered discreetly when he goes and not have a band named after him like Unionists do.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » for any change to really happen the moderates with a bit of cop on will have to take charge
downcow wrote: » Guys. I have tried very hard to find a single republican here who has the courage to name one person in their own community who is beyond the pale for a memorial. I have just encountered riddles, waffle, avoidance, unachievable nonsense, whataboutery, etc, etc.
downcow wrote: » This is one of the big problems here. Republicans can never just for ‘the right thing’ It has to be negotiated out of them. No matter what memorials republicans have, I can say categorically that I believe public remembrance of Jonny Adair is wrong, hurtful and simply should not happen. Sad you can’t say same about an ira member who has murdered my community. Actually it is disgusting
