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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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pdpmur

KCross wrote: »

There isnt 3kW spare at every lamp post. There would be upgrade works required so not entirely easy peasy but it is one of a suite of solutions that needs to be ramped up.

Public lighting circuit capacities are typically limited to 2kW total per circuit and they are generally not metered (ESB charges local authorities per light typically), so it's not just a case of tapping into an existing electrical supply. But if an existing buried ductwork service is available then at least some upgrading can be performed without a major digging exercise.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

No, I don't. I think we needed that in 2015, when a car needed 3 charges a week to cover average weekly mileage, and a 50kW charge was a C rate of 2.5. Now that we've busted through the once a week charge covers the average weekly and a 50kW charger is 0.8C we can fill the gaps for on-street parking by 50kW district hubs instead AC chargers at every lamppost.

Fair enough. I just dont think the buying public will buy into sitting in their cars waiting for DC charging for anything other than long journeys.

If the likes of Tesco are willing to put in banks of DC chargers then Im all for that, I just cant see it happening based on the cost of it. Hopefully the cost does change.

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Fair enough. I just dont think the buying public will buy into sitting in their cars waiting for DC charging for anything other than long journeys.

If the likes of Tesco are willing to put in banks of DC chargers then Im all for that, I just cant see it happening based on the cost of it. Hopefully the cost does change.

Oh, I agree, I've lived the life of sitting in a car a couple of times a week whilst charging it's not great but at least at the time it didn't cost anything.
I see it more as a partnership, supermarkets agrees to let a charging company install a bank of chargers in their car park. Pretty much what Tesco are doing now with eCars, but with chargers that are useful to people.

ELM327

pdpmur wrote: »

Public lighting circuit capacities are typically limited to 2kW total per circuit and they are generally not metered (ESB charges local authorities per light typically), so it's not just a case of tapping into an existing electrical supply. But if an existing buried ductwork service is available then at least some upgrading can be performed without a major digging exercise.

They may be unmetered in the regular sense but their usage is measured.
The public lighting supply contract is currently with energia for supply purposes and they'd have to buy electricity for it etc so there is some metering.

Replacing the bulbs with LED would leave most of the 2kW free. Charging at 1.7kW for 10 hours would get you 80-100km during your workday for instance.

zg3409

ELM327 wrote: »

They may be unmetered in the regular sense but their usage is measured.
The public lighting supply contract is currently with energia for supply purposes and they'd have to buy electricity for it etc so there is some metering.

Replacing the bulbs with LED would leave most of the 2kW free. Charging at 1.7kW for 10 hours would get you 80-100km during your workday for instance.

This is well off topic as esb have never provided a lamp post charger, but I'll respond.

Any lamp post chargers to date have
A) Replaced the post entirely with a brand new pole,

brand new light, (led)
C) Ran a new power cable typically 3 phase
D) Installed a new earth rod
E) Had built in billing/sim card/website activation (not all)

In London they did retrofit outlets the bottom of existing old lamp posts but I am not sure if new power and earth was needed.

So I think it is theoretically possible, but based on work involved putting a charger on a post next to a lamp post would be just as much work, if not less work. Energy usage and billing could be calculated based on charger data and sim card, if the esb allowed no esb meter to be used. If esb applied monthly supply fee like a house or stand alone commercial site then the ongoing cost could be very high The low usage fee is 30 euro per year per household plus normal fees.

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/help/billing/what-is-the-low-user-standing-charge

All that said then need to roll out low cost on street charging for those who park overnight on street. If that is part of a lamp post or a pillar, they need to do it on a few streets and figure out installation costs and billing and viability. They should start on streets where people have an EV and no driveway and no designated parking spot. Then at least one of them would be regularly used and neighbours can be encouraged to change to EV. If it costs 2,000 per parking spot/household then who will pay?

Irishjg

Where I work we sell cable to contractors for lighting poles ( streets, car parks, estates etc ). Contractors always install 3 x 6sq cable. 3x6 on a single phase will easily carry 6kW @ 32 amps.

zg3409

Irishjg wrote: »

Where I work we sell cable to contractors for lighting poles ( streets, car parks, estates etc ). Contractors always install 3 x 6sq cable. 3x6 on a single phase will easily carry 6kW @ 32 amps.

However street lights are fed in daisy chain, meaning 6kW across many lights, possibly 1kW per light or less. That would not be good enough for someone with 100km daily commute.

MJohnston

How many people have 100km daily commutes? What's the average daily commute?

Beyond that, should we really care about supporting car-oriented commutes in future?

ELM327

MJohnston wrote: »

How many people have 100km daily commutes? What's the average daily commute?

Beyond that, should we really care about supporting car-oriented commutes in future?

Average commute was quite short due to Dublin distances.
If you look at most people commuting to Dublin from the GDA, it's likely 50km + each way. My own is 120km round trip

unkel

zg3409 wrote: »

However street lights are fed in daisy chain, meaning 6kW across many lights, possibly 1kW per light or less. That would not be good enough for someone with 100km daily commute.

And a 1kW charge point of course would be absurd. We'd be the laughing stock of Europe if that was published in foreign media

Then again, ESB is spending our money converting 22kW destination charge points into 2kW ones, so it wouldn't surprise me...

AndyBoBandy

What’s the deal with the fast charger overstay fee, is it just 1 €5 charge for staying over 45 minutes, and that’s it? Or is it recurring?

Was out in Blanchardstown SC today and as I was at 30% said I’d go for a charge. The 2 AC’s were occupied (BEV & PHEV) which is fair enough. There was a 530e plugged into the AC43 Fast (which in itself seems fairly pointless as they can only take 3.7kWh), but by the time we were getting out of there, he’d been plugged into it for going on 2 hours.....

So that’s about €7.42 (€5 overstay + €2.42) for 7.4kWh, which roughly works out at about 33km of range!!

Should the ‘Fast’ chargers not at least be designated BEV only?

Can PHEV’s DC charge?

unkel

fool n00b LOL, petrol is many times cheaper

Dunno what way the overstay penalty is, I think just a one off €5?

Irishjg

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Should the ‘Fast’ chargers not at least be designated BEV only?

Can PHEV’s DC charge?

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a CHAdeMO port for RDC charging up to a maximum 22kwh ROC.

innrain

It is just a once-off based on their page https://esb.ie/ecars/price-plans/pricing-terms
I wonder what is the diff Membership vs Standard Monthly Membership

kanuseeme

Irishjg wrote: »

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a CHAdeMO port for RDC charging up to a maximum 22kwh ROC.

Mercedes A250e hybrid https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mercedes-benz/a-class-hybrid/ 70 km range

Mercedes GLE 350 de https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/169818/plug-in-hybrid-mercedes-gle-350-de-prices-and-specs-revealed 100 km

BMW i3 rex

zg3409

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

There was a 530e plugged into the AC43 Fast (which in itself seems fairly pointless as they can only take 3.7kWh), but

The app warns you about overstay fee around 40 minutes into the charging. Some people hit stop on the app and leave car connected. This may avoid overstay fee, but esb do mention those avoiding the overstay by plugging out and back in etc. may be in trouble.

AndyBoBandy

I was checking the app and it said the session was 2 hours long, so it looks like he was still pulling.... at 3.7kWh from a 43kWh fast charger!!

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I was checking the app and it said the session was 2 hours long, so it looks like he was still pulling.... at 3.7kWh from a 43kWh fast charger!!

That is fast, compared to some of the new upgraded rapids

AndyBoBandy

Out in Blanch again this morning as she has a few bits to get in some shops so said I’d try the charger again.

Both AC’s occupied (E-Soul & Prius), one of which has been there since 12:30am this morning.....

An Outlander PHEV came and sat in the fast charger bay for 15 minutes before leaving with nothing.

And now a guy in a plug in Mercedes parked in the fast charge bay and tried to initiate a charge on the AC43 a few times before walking away without starting the charge (app shows as available to charge).

“If I can’t use it, nobody can use it”

I get that it’s a busy charger, but You’d think the likes of a huge shopping centre would have more than 2 slow chargers...

AndyBoBandy

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I get that it’s a busy charger, but You’d think the likes of a huge shopping centre would have more than 2 slow chargers...

Liffey Valley shopping centre has none

MJohnston

unkel wrote: »

Liffey Valley shopping centre has none

Incorrect, it has 2x2 slow chargers at the Tesco.

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Out in Blanch again.............
Both AC’s occupied (E-Soul & Prius), one of which has been there since 12:30am this morning.....

An Outlander PHEV came and sat in the fast charger bay for 15 minutes before leaving with nothing.

And now a guy in a plug in Mercedes parked in the fast charge bay and tried to initiate a charge on the AC43 a few times before walking away without starting the charge (app shows as available to charge).

“If I can’t use it, nobody can use it”

That's what was happening at the DC chargers when they were free.

Obviously, none of those you refer to here in Blanch this morning, likely yourself included, needed to charge. People just take advantage of free sh1t.

The sooner ECars introduce even nominal charges for the AC charge points, the batter - even matching the usual day rate of 15c/kWh would see them deserted.

Watch the exodus to the remaining free charge points in Decathlon, Lidl etc. then

AndyBoBandy

An overstay fee on AC chargers would help with the all nighters. Say a 4 hour max and you get hit with overstay fee’s

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

An overstay fee on AC chargers would help with the all nighters. Say a 4 hour max and you get hit with overstay fee’s

AC chargers are destination chargers. The whole point about them is that you can leave your car for the whole day or even overnight

unkel

MJohnston wrote: »

Incorrect, it has 2x2 slow chargers at the Tesco.

I know. They're quite a bit away from the main shopping area though.

McGiver

unkel wrote:

AC chargers are destination chargers. The whole point about them is that you can leave your car for the whole day or even overnight

No, they are not, this is a major misconception on this thread.

The only true destination chargers are - home and hotels, and maybe some P&Rs which are a special case.

In Paris, Prague, London, Berlin you get penalised by charging on AC for too long. Again, ELM327 can say what he wants but it's about efficient usage of the resource. That's why it's time limited / penalised almost everywhere.

Innogy Berlin 0,39 EUR / kWh + 0,06 EUR / min after three hours. Similar system is in place in Prague with different thresholds for additional per minute fee on different networks (between 3 to 6 hours). In Paris some chargers get extra 7c/min fee after first hour. London - 10 quid/hour after 90 minutes. Etc etc.

The German/Czech system is reasonable IMHO. And yeah we need AC - everywhere. Even just 3-pin 13A sockets, they're common in Europe too.

McGiver

AndyBoBandy wrote:

An overstay fee on AC chargers would help with the all nighters. Say a 4 hour max and you get hit with overstay feeâ€™s

No overstay fee, that's too harsh. Per minute extra fee, kicking in after few hours, which is predictable, linear and fair.

Marlow

unkel wrote: »

I know. They're quite a bit away from the main shopping area though.

That's to avoid the lazy c****, who have to park right outfront the entrance on the pavement. At least there's some chance they're unoccupied that way

Good for your health too, to take the walk from there to the entrance.

/M

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

AC chargers are destination chargers. The whole point about them is that you can leave your car for the whole day or even overnight

Why would you think it OK to leave a fully charged car (your Tesla would be full in less than 4 hours), overnight, on a 22kW charge point? A charge point I paid for through my tax, for you to deem it "a destination charger", & free for whoever, to hog it or abuse it, at will, at my expense?

A 7kW charge point installed by a hotel, at a hotel, for guests, or 3kW outlets installed in a long stay car park or at a private shopping centre etc. - these I would deem destination charge points.

Not state funded, 2x 22kW AC charge points, I'm paying for!

unkel - I'm paying to charge your Tesla :eek:.
Down with this sort of thing!!!

:pac::pac: