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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

I think you've nailed it there. WOT thought that they had a monopoly on ideas for the WRC, based on a shoddy "we were here first" principle. A train running on that alignment will tramp the greenway campaign into the ground. That's the challenge and, genuinely, I wish you all luck with it .

Meanwhile, the attempt to get a greenway across East Galway from Athlone gets hindered by one of the politicians who has been the loudest exponent of preventing the reuse of the line even to Tuam. Some crack.

Del.Monte

A couple of 1940s maps here to help some of you understand where the WRC is, axle loadings etc. Incidentally, the axle loading on a line can sometimes be decided by a solitary structure on the line e.g. Cahir viaduct and doesn't indicate that the line as a whole is unfit for heavier axle loads than that indicated.

MILNE%2B1.jpg

TCDStudent1

Del.Monte wrote: »

A couple of 1940s maps here to help some of you understand where the WRC is, axle loadings etc. Incidentally, the axle loading on a line can sometimes be decided by a solitary structure on the line e.g. Cahir viaduct and doesn't indicate that the line as a whole is unfit for heavier axle loads than that indicated.

Never knew there was a railway station in Ballinrobe. Would that section also be considered part of the WRC?

Isambard

lovely old maps. Thanks for sharing.

Isn't it surprising Limerick isn't clamouring for a direct service to Dublin (via Nenagh)!

Del.Monte

@ TCDStudent1

No, the Ballinrobe branch is not considered part of the WRC.

TCDStudent1

Del.Monte wrote: »

@ TCDStudent1

No, the Ballinrobe branch is not considered part of the WRC.

Any reason for this? Does that line not exist any more?

Del.Monte

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Any reason for this? Does that line not exist any more?

Long gone (1892 - 1959)
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Ballinrobe/IrishRailwayStations.html

TCDStudent1

Del.Monte wrote: »

Long gone (1892 - 1959)
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20B/Ballinrobe/IrishRailwayStations.html

It's interesting. I read a thesis online about it there. And it is sad to see that the majority of the line does not exist any more. I hope the same doesn't happen the WRC. I cross a part of the WRC multiple times a day and it saddens me to see it not in use. Hopefully, it will be back in use some day, whatever that use may be.

blackwhite

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Never knew there was a railway station in Ballinrobe. Would that section also be considered part of the WRC?

Station was down where the GAA grounds are now. A few of the buildings are still there

Losty Dublin

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

It's interesting. I read a thesis online about it there. And it is sad to see that the majority of the line does not exist any more. I hope the same doesn't happen the WRC. I cross a part of the WRC multiple times a day and it saddens me to see it not in use. Hopefully, it will be back in use some day, whatever that use may be.

Oddly enough there were plans proposed to extend the Ballinrobe line onwards to Cong. Would have made for an excellent greenway; it would have been a real Quiet Man Greenway too.

Losty Dublin

L1011 wrote: »

Even if they had a railway order to proceed with works immediately - there is no rolling stock. None at all. And no order for DART expansion which is what's going to release diesel stock (we are unlikely to ever order further diesel stock beyond maybe another 22000 centre car order).

Even if there's a business case its 15 years away.

Good news to behold.

Additional 22000 intermediate units were ordered last year and are due for delivery in 2021. While this order is ostensibly about adding capacity to the fleet, it will allow fleet managers the chance for DMU sets to be reallocated onto other services, including extra 22000 sets on the WRC. Many services on the Galway-Limerick services depart their respective termini full; for these passenger the extra accommodation cannot come quick enough.

There will also be surplus DMU's that will be released from Dublin suburban services. Hybrid units and new EMU's to complement the forthcoming DART expansion have been. Granted these are not anytime real soon but that's okay, it will take a while for the WRC to come on stream.

Remember, if all that is granted for now is a renewal to Tuam then all that will be needed in the interim is two sets; one if it's operated as a branch shuttle. That is well within the confines of the current fleet let alone in the short and mid term as units are displaced.

Ireland trains

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Good news to behold

Additional 22000 intermediate units were ordered last year and are due for delivery in 2021. While this order is ostensibly about adding capacity to the fleet, it will allow fleet managers the chance for DMU sets to be reallocated onto other services, including extra 22000 sets on the WRC. Many services on the Galway-Limerick services depart their respective termini full; for these passenger the extra accommodation cannot come quick enough.

The coaches on order are for Dublin suburban and Heuston intercity only.
To quote Irish rail's website ' the new carriages will enter service in the Greater Dublin Area from late 2021, providing an overall increase in peak Commuter capacity of 34% on routes where they will be deployed. These carriages will benefit:

Northern Commuter services
Western Commuter services (Maynooth/M3 Parkway to Dublin)
South-Western Commuter services (Heuston Commuter and Intercity services, and Newbridge/Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock'

No ICRs will be redeployed onto the WRC

Losty Dublin

Ireland trains wrote: »

The coaches on order are for Dublin suburban and Heuston intercity only.
To quote Irish rail's website ' the new carriages will enter service in the Greater Dublin Area from late 2021, providing an overall increase in peak Commuter capacity of 34% on routes where they will be deployed. These carriages will benefit:

Northern Commuter services
Western Commuter services (Maynooth/M3 Parkway to Dublin)
South-Western Commuter services (Heuston Commuter and Intercity services, and Newbridge/Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock'

No ICRs will be redeployed onto the WRC

There are already services on the WRC which are diagrammed for 22000's though. 22000's were also intended to work suburban services, and they currently do so your point is mistaken if well meant.

Also I did say that the orders are about an expansion of capacity for the class. Once 22000 sets have extra on board capacity they will consequently displace some 29000's from some services, which will free up some capacity within the network

Lord Glentoran

Ireland trains wrote: »

The coaches on order are for Dublin suburban and Heuston intercity only.
To quote Irish rail's website ' the new carriages will enter service in the Greater Dublin Area from late 2021, providing an overall increase in peak Commuter capacity of 34% on routes where they will be deployed. These carriages will benefit:

Northern Commuter services
Western Commuter services (Maynooth/M3 Parkway to Dublin)
South-Western Commuter services (Heuston Commuter and Intercity services, and Newbridge/Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock'

No ICRs will be redeployed onto the WRC

Earmarking stock for particular routes doesn’t really work in CIE. For example, the 2600 railcars in 1994 were pretty quickly deployed elsewhere on the system outwith their “Arrow” branding for the Heuston-Kildare stopping services. For example, I had the interesting experience of being on a non-stop “Arrow Express” run to Cork from Dublin in 2001.

Ireland trains

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There are already services on the WRC which are diagrammed for 22000's though. 22000's were also intended to work suburban services, and they currently do so your point is mistaken if well meant.

Also I did say that the orders are about an expansion of capacity for the class. Once 22000 sets have extra on board capacity they will consequently displace some 29000's from some services, which will free up some capacity within the network

None of the additional 41 carriges will initally be for the WRC. the fleet will be reorganised into 22×6, 20×4 and 21×3. The current icr sets on the WRC are 3 cars and will remain so. The icrs will only be cascaded off dublin suburban services once a new fleet arrives in min 3 of years time.

Greaney

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Oddly enough there were plans proposed to extend the Ballinrobe line onwards to Cong. Would have made for an excellent greenway; it would have been a real Quiet Man Greenway too.

I have to say, I thought the Quiet Man Greenway name was not a good choice. I'd feel robbed if I were a tourist and didn't end up in either Connamara or Cong!!

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

You also say the doubling of the Galway line to Athenry is way down the list, how do you know this? I believe this could be prioritized very quickly with multiple agencies applying for EU funding presently. The doubling of the track is not waiting on that report but the report might state that doubling of the existing is required!

I thought there were plans to double track/loop between Galway City & Athenry...

https://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2020/01/22/4184680-double-track-for-athenrygalway-route-in-the-pipeline/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-set-to-get-nta-approval-for-100m-worth-of-rail-carriages-1.3753805

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/city-council-to-make-rail-loop-at-oranmore-top-priority/

[Deleted User]

Greaney wrote: »

I thought there were plans to double track/loop between Galway City & Athenry...

https://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2020/01/22/4184680-double-track-for-athenrygalway-route-in-the-pipeline/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-set-to-get-nta-approval-for-100m-worth-of-rail-carriages-1.3753805

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/city-council-to-make-rail-loop-at-oranmore-top-priority/

Smart rail investment, which will assist in getting the Galway - Dublin route to sub 2hrs

It's going to be years though, sadly. My guess, between design, planning, funding and construction, 2030 at the earliest

Del.Monte

@ end of the road

Thanks for this one:

yes and with the wrc opened it would still go to waterford but without traveling part of the dublin cork route between portarlington and kildare but would instead go via tuam/limerick and via the lj to waterford line which would over all have less traffic.
i also believe it's actually a shorter distance but perhapse del.monte or losty dublin could confirm?
you will still need to double athlone to portarlington anyway regardless.

I felt obliged to check on the mileages on foot of this and Ballina/Waterford via Athlone and Kildare = 217 miles approx and Ballina/Waterford via the WRC and Limerick Junction = 202 miles approx. As you say the main advantage would lie in relieving pressure on the busy single track Athlone/Portarlington and Cherryville Junction/Waterford sections.

end of the road

Ireland trains wrote: »

None of the additional 41 carriges will initally be for the WRC. the fleet will be reorganised into 22×6, 20×4 and 21×3. The current icr sets on the WRC are 3 cars and will remain so. The icrs will only be cascaded off dublin suburban services once a new fleet arrives in min 3 of years time.

the carrages may be intended to be for the dublin area but they won't stay there all the time as sets do the rounds of the network.
so even if there isn't a specific intention for longer sets to end up on the WRC, i suspect they will do so from time to time.

Muckyboots

Six years of over-arching individualistic influence might just have come to an end. Rip up the sally bushes and let people access the way - anyhow.

Pete2k

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/39603-failte-ireland-backed-projects-to-proceed-irrespective-of-the-pandemic

Good to see despite westip's best attempts to stop it the velorail looks as if its going ahead

CatInABox

Pete2k wrote: »

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/39603-failte-ireland-backed-projects-to-proceed-irrespective-of-the-pandemic

Good to see despite westip's best attempts to stop it the velorail looks as if its going ahead

I didn't realise that it had gone through planning yet, would have liked to have seen the docs.

Del.Monte

Pete2k wrote: »

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/39603-failte-ireland-backed-projects-to-proceed-irrespective-of-the-pandemic

Good to see despite westip's best attempts to stop it the velorail looks as if its going ahead

How is this going to work out in practice when the Claremorris/Collooney line reopens for conventional traffic? Will passengers have to change onto the Velo-Rail "buggies" at Kiltimagh and then back onto another conventional train at the end of the Velo-Rail section? And, more importantly, will there be a station buffet at Kiltimagh to cater for the large numbers waiting for "buggies" to be returned from the other end of the line?

Muckyboots

Pete2k wrote: »

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/39603-failte-ireland-backed-projects-to-proceed-irrespective-of-the-pandemic

Good to see despite westip's best attempts to stop it the velorail looks as if its going ahead

I'll be walking on it too. Looking forward to it.

westtip

Pete2k wrote: »

https://midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/39603-failte-ireland-backed-projects-to-proceed-irrespective-of-the-pandemic

Good to see despite westip's best attempts to stop it the velorail looks as if its going ahead

I really don't care at this stage it will be a complete waste of money a complete failure and a greenway will eventually succeed it. I have given up caring on this project which is why I have not posted for a while, waste of time going around in circles on boards. As for the Velorail!! What a waste of an opportunity.

Pete2k

So the services of the self proclaimed 'Greenway Champion' Cannon are no longer required in government and he has essentially been demoted. Good to know his opinions were never considered important which is quite evident given he wasnt even offered a junior role this time. Perhaps now he'll have more time to go work with his constituents of east galway and convince them to allow the athlone to galway greenway to proceed. Oh no wait that wouldn't be good for his image...

eastwest

Pete2k wrote: »

So the services of the self proclaimed 'Greenway Champion' Cannon are no longer required in government and he has essentially been demoted. Good to know his opinions were never considered important which is quite evident given he wasnt even offered a junior role this time. Perhaps now he'll have more time to go work with his constituents of east galway and convince them to allow the athlone to galway greenway to proceed. Oh no wait that wouldn't be good for his image...

He'll be a loss to the greenway campaign, although he's still a TD with a strong interest in it. His constituency colleague, Anne Rabbitte is also a strong proponent of the greenway, and she's apparently got the call.
Interesting to see Michael Ring dropped too. A former critic of west on track at government level, he has been seen to cosy up to them in recent years in an attempt to garner votes in his own constituency, where they have a couple of wot councillors.
His support for the greenway-blocking velorail stunt, throwing money at it against the strong advice of his officials when it didn't even have planning permission, was an embarrassment to Varadkar and wouldn't have helped him this time around.
Swings and roundabouts.

[Deleted User]

Pete2k wrote: »

So the services of the self proclaimed 'Greenway Champion' Cannon are no longer required in government and he has essentially been demoted. Good to know his opinions were never considered important which is quite evident given he wasnt even offered a junior role this time. Perhaps now he'll have more time to go work with his constituents of east galway and convince them to allow the athlone to galway greenway to proceed. Oh no wait that wouldn't be good for his image...

Not to worry, there's another self-professed greenway champion promoted, Anne Rabbitte

I guess we'll have to console ourselves with the fact that

there's 2 pro-greenway Galway East TD's in power,
one of which is a junior minister
greens (pro cycling infrastructure) in power
1.8 billion being pumped into cycling / walking infrastructure over the next few years at the behest of the greens
A green minister has his hands on the rail review
Seaney is nowhere to be seen

Not really feeling that down about things to be honest

But I guess we'll all have to wait and see the review, until then I'm off for a cycle weeeeeeeeeeeeee

Pete2k

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not to worry, there's another self-professed greenway champion promoted, Anne Rabbitte

I guess we'll have to console ourselves with the fact that
there's 2 pro-greenway Galway East TD's in power,

one of which is a junior minister

greens (pro cycling infrastructure) in power

1.8 billion being pumped into cycling / walking infrastructure over the next few years at the behest of the greens

A green minister has his hands on the rail review

Seaney is nowhere to be seen

Not really feeling that down about things to be honest

But I guess we'll all have to wait and see the review, until then I'm off for a cycle weeeeeeeeeeeeee

The same Anne Rabitte who was convinced last week that she was going to be a senior minister and now has had to accept a consolation junior role... ya I've no doubt she'll be really influential! Just as much as Cannon was the last 3 yrs I'd say.

ezstreet5

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to worry, there's another self-professed greenway champion promoted, Anne Rabbitte

To gauge Anne's real position, you can watch her (albeit bizarre) video at a random level crossing, tossing corriboard around the countryside. Her quote is:

By opening up this greenway, by opening up this old railway line, we're showing the people what we have. I don't want a greenway on the old railway line; I want it adjacent to it.

So she is a side-by-sider, and she'll be held to that position, especially since rail service is a tremendous benefit to the disabled.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=454228541766135