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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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Carfacemandog

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/23/police-to-investigate-burnley-white-lives-matter-aircraft-banner

Black Lives Matter: Police get on their knees.
White Lives Matter: Police investigate hate crime.

And in a plot this that will have surprised nobody ever, the person responsible for this has a history of posting racist rants on social media. He has now been sacked from his job, as has his girlfriend for the same reason.
https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8451435/amp/Burnley-fan-White-Lives-Matter-plane-posted-racist-P-messages-online.html

Reminds me of the "all lives matter" gobsh*tes who were counter protesting a BLM march a few weeks ago in the US, while reenacting George Floyds death. They also got fired, probably in no small part to also chanting "black lives matter... to no one" later in the same video they uploaded. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDfhGMLA88M

The black/blue/all lives matter brands are toxic for reasons and people like this. Many claim it was initiated by racists but even if it wasn't (I have no idea personally) it has been strongly co-opted by them, and the refusal to accept this or address the issues therein is just making that same problem worse for its proponents.

It is to 2020 what 'alt right' was to 2017 after the neo Nazi Charlottesville rally. An attractive moniker/slogan to some of a certain persuasion that became utterly toxic because of its association with and co-opting by outright racists, and the refusal to face up to those associations by others championing it - be they racist or not.

Give it a bit and many of same people championing it now will act bemused and offended to even be associated with it, just as happened to the alt right movement.

1800_Ladladlad

Big Mouth creators vowed to find a Black actor to voice Missy, a young biracial girl, after Jenny Slate, who is a white actor, announced her decision to leave the Netflix cartoon series. "Ending my portrayal of Missy is one step in a life-long process of uncovering the racism in my actions," Slate said. The show creators issued an apology and say they "regret" their "original decision to cast a white actor to voice a biracial character.”

That 's practically racial segregation. Plenty white animated characters are voiced by black VA or other ethnicity. Should they now quite their roles as well. This sh1te is getting ridiculous now.

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Mr. Karate

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There are truly f*cking dumb people in the US. The comments are gas and shows how tick people are

https://twitter.com/mixedchic7141/status/1272008344786497537

I'm glad people are giving her actual blowback for her stupidity instead of the usual head patting. Hopefully its a sign that people are fed up of the perpetually offended and professional victims.

Mr. Karate

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I love the one where the woman says that she and her husband have been living there for over 20 years and love the place but now want to move away from "all this hate"

It's a ****in tow rope you clown !

Bye. should be the only valid response to these idiots. They're clearly looking to outraged.

Mr. Karate

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Plenty of flights on offer. Those who feel oppressed by the white man should pack bags and leave.
The opposite situation is the reality though. They are risking life and limb to come live amongst those from the Western World.

Very peculiar

That should be the only thing these perpetual victims get. You feel like you're life in danger living here then we'll help you escape.

Foxtrol

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There are truly f*cking dumb people in the US. The comments are gas and shows how tick people are

You're talking about a country where a cop went to the media and demanded (and got) an investigation of McDonald because he claimed an employee took a bite out of his sandwich. After a lot of wasted time and effort it turned out it was the cop himself that took a bite out of it and 'forgot'.

[Deleted User]

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There are truly f*cking dumb people in the US. The comments are gas and shows how tick people are

https://twitter.com/mixedchic7141/status/1272008344786497537

I love the one where the woman says that she and her husband have been living there for over 20 years and love the place but now want to move away from "all this hate"

It's a ****in tow rope you clown !

1800_Ladladlad

There are truly f*cking dumb people in the US. The comments are gas and shows how tick people are

https://twitter.com/mixedchic7141/status/1272008344786497537

Foxtrol

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Correct. I’m in the latter group.

Let’s assume you’re right for a second. That police officers don’t record the races of suspects which I find rather incredulous. That local police departments don’t gather data properly and therefore the black crime rate is lower than it appears. The percentage of murders committed by blacks would be closer to 15% than 57% since that’s the percentage blacks make up in the population. Assuming that’s true, do you really think the data is so biased and so flawed as to be off to the tune of 42%???

Throughout the world crime is linked to disadvantaged areas. Look at Ireland, inner city Dublin and certain estates in Limerick.

In a large part this poverty is due to the slavery, segregation etc that was put upon their families which means they are much more likely to come from disadvantaged areas.

Do you realise what you’re saying? Your literally implying that police departments around the country are in systematic and/or incompetent fashion, falsely/mistakenly recording murders committed by blacks at higher rates than they are in reality. Sorry but it’s an insane implication. Especially in the larger city police departments where blacks are pretty highly represented in the force. In Atlanta were Rayshard Brooks was killed blacks make up HALF the police force. Are those black officers in on the conspiracy?

I'm talking about officer use of force numbers. In most local areas, it is not a requirement for cops to state the race of the victim or even local stations to report the information. You've built your whole argument for police shooting on garbage data.

As for police misrepresenting facts, here are some samples we've seen the last few weeks and were only caught due to camera evidence.

https://twitter.com/ABC7Chicago/status/1275636284036431879?s=20

https://twitter.com/Drew_Peg86/status/1268761022158065665?s=20

https://twitter.com/mukhtaryare/status/1265182994660233225?s=20

In the last 15 years police in the US police have been PULLING BACK from minority areas because they don’t want the hassle of being accused of racism every time they make an arrest or pull somebody over. Things like “Broken Windows Policing” which helped turn New York City from a hell hole into something remotely liveable during the 90s have been abandoned. If anything these areas are under policed and still blacks are over represented in crime statistics.

Using capital letters doesn't make a point true.

Taking your NYC example, since 1995 the NYPD budget has gone up by nearly $4 billion dollars, yes BILLION, and the NYPD employees have gone up nearly 10,000. None of that points to 'PULLING BACK'.

Are you serious? The media bent itself into a pretzel trying to emphasise that these protests were mostly peaceful which I agree they were but often at the expense of properly covering the riots which were, you know, the reason every major city in America had a curfew imposed.

When I said “outsized impact” I didn’t mean media impact. What I meant was that a small minority of people caused entire cities to be shut down.

Reporters were saying it was prominently peaceful while running down to find any semblance of violence. If the coverage was balanced like you claim you'd be able to point to the national or international coverage of the protests continuing at the same level when the initial peak of looting/rioting ended.

Reminds me of this from Trumps inauguration. As usual many have fallen for it.

https://twitter.com/GenePark/status/1087060948622499846?s=20

Again, even if we assume you’re right there’s absolutely no way those crime statistics can be as wrong as you say they are.

When 15% percent of the population commits half of the murders, that is not a statistical screw up. Back in the early 60s and before, the black crime rate rates were no where near as high (crime among all races was low) but this was the era of Jim Crow and the KKK. Police actually were systemically racist back then. They could have fabricated crime stats with impunity if they wished but they didn’t. Black crime rates spiked from the 70s onwards due to the single motherhood crisis.

Again, the core issue with your point of view is it is based on worthless officer involved shooting data.

Regarding the increased crime numbers, I'd put it a lot more down to the fabricated war on drugs and the outrageous penalties for the black community drug of choice when compared to that of the white community (crack cocaine vs cocaine).

It really is the easiest game in the world when someone cites a study, you go “Bbbbut, that data is flawed. It was collected by people who can’t collect data properly.” and then you avoid ever having to engage with an argument. Sad.

Not very sad when the source you quote is saying that exact same thing:

https://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ndcopuof.pdf

Systematically collecting information on use of force from the Nation's more than 17,000 law enforcement agencies is difficult given the lack of standard definitions, the variety of incident recording practices, and the sensitivity of the issue.

Since then the Guardian compiled a tracker based on news sources and it count for 2015 was over twice the numbers that were reported to the FBI from local police forces.

Harvard did a study of data to death certs and they found that misclassifcation topped 60%.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/documenting-police-killings/

Misclassification rates for police-related deaths topped 60% among several groups: people under age 18, blacks, people killed by something other than a firearm (particularly Tasers, which accounted for 46 deaths), and people killed in low-income counties.

The single biggest problem in the black community is single motherhood. It is the no. 1 predictor of criminality, school failure and poverty. Segregation ended in 1965. At that time the black single motherhood rate was 25%, In 1991 it was 68% and in 2015 it was 78%. Are we gonna blame segregation for all of the black community’s problems today? Did America get more racist between 1965 and 2015 and if so how did that happen?

You're making a big jump there between cause and effect. Single motherhood rates are nearly universally higher in areas of poverty (again, look at Ireland). In the US the difference of net worth of a typical white family is 10 times that of a black family and that can be directly linked to slavery and segregation.

On wider policing issues, I am in favour of mandatory body cameras, more training and dismantling police unions and a return to the proactive policing that helped turn America around in the 90s.

The type 'Proactive policing' that was found to unfairly target minorities even when you controlled for other factors :rolleyes:

I know why they’re saying they’re house is on fire. But I’ve looked at the data and I can see it isn’t true so I don’t believe them.

You haven't listened to them though, you've cherry picked flawed data to support your assumptions and then made broad unsubstantiated statements.

They say their house is on fire, you're saying you don't believe them because you can't smell it, while ignoring the fact the wind is blowing the smoke the other direction.

Well logically speaking I can’t prove a negative but go on.

This is really the problem here for you and other posters, you can't disprove the claims they are making so you just again and again throw crap at the wall, be it random videos or incredibly flawed data points.

ExMachina1000

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Milo Yianoppolis said it best "White People are evil that they can't find them doing anything so they have to invent things to continue the narrative."

Plenty of flights on offer. Those who feel oppressed by the white man should pack bags and leave.
The opposite situation is the reality though. They are risking life and limb to come live amongst those from the Western World.

Very peculiar

Mr. Karate

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Imagine my shock.

Milo Yianoppolis said it best "White People are evil that they can't find them doing anything so they have to invent things to continue the narrative."

MrMusician18

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats your opinion though. There is quite a lot of scientific research suggesting we are not all inherently selfish.

Indeed, only some people are selfish. Like the settled people that you say do the dumping at halting sites...

Foxtrol

Seeing as the thread has descended into posting videos

Cops breaking the ribs of a guy without even bothering to find out if it was the guy they wanted

https://twitter.com/KingBach/status/1275730943492456450?s=20

paw patrol

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

African Americans accusing Africans of racism is right in line with how 2020 is going.

https://twitter.com/obehieigbe/status/1275457761195720705

"you're not Black, you're from Africa" hahaha wtf

that video made my day! :pac:

1800_Ladladlad

African Americans accusing Africans of racism is right in line with how 2020 is going.

https://twitter.com/obehieigbe/status/1275457761195720705

"you're not Black, you're from Africa" hahaha wtf

1800_Ladladlad

Calls a cop "White boy" and another man out of frame "His Chinese lookin ass"

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1275743740984877057

Baggly

He can't respond so move on.

paw patrol

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Conversation is over. Debate is shut down. .

i'm hearing a lot on the news and media that "we need to have this conversation" etc...
"conversation" is used as the buzzword but they don't want any conversation they want to hear their opinions come out of your mouth.

there is no conversation to be had with BLM and their supporters.they don't want it.

In fact , to give BLM their due (the actual group not the slogan) they are fairly clear on their website - they don't want agreement , they want to enforce their rules on us.

Baggly

1800_Ladladlad wrote:

You'd argue that the 9/11 hijackers were practicing their 1st amendment rite.

He can't respond now so move on.

1800_Ladladlad

Overheal wrote: »

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

You'd argue that the 9/11 hijackers were practicing their 1st amendment rite.

Baggly

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

Mod

Both of you dont post in this thread again.

IvoryTower

Golf is my Game wrote: »

There clearly lots in the world who think the blacks are worth less and their as entitled to their point of view as anyone else

Yes agreed its okay to be racist its just a point of view

lol

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

Any chance of you defining Person of Colour for the class?

Golf is my Game

I wouldn't have a problem with the black lives matter thing. At the least, it's a valid question and opens the debate. There clearly lots in the world who think the blacks are worth less and their as entitled to their point of view as anyone else. So talking about it will maybe have more people come to a concencus and settle it more or less. But agree there is no need for the white lives matter. That's always been pretty much assumed or automatic by both whites and black. it's never been in question. So it does distract from the conversation on whether black live matter or should matter as much as white and whatever which is what the football player started, and deserves to by discussed especially in the states. Don't like the use of people of colour though, so glad they didn't choose that. I don't thing any race should feel entitled to say they are the only ones of colour which would be discrimination itself which is a bit rich. I'm Irish but just as entitled to call myself a person of colour as a black lad

perfectkama

I dont agree with all lives as should be a given police behavior is the states is wrong
but i dont like being told i have told be a part of blm
rasism is in many of our live not just colour
blm group has no right to hijack sport lucky there are no supports in the grounds

Sean.3516

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is more like they're shouting 'my house is on fire' and there are a mix of people saying 'what about all houses' and 'well I don't believe you because of xyz', you seem to fall into the latter group.

Correct. I’m in the latter group.

Foxtrol wrote: »

But you've ignored the multiple studies posted here and continue to cling to ones with incredibly shoddy data.

Foxtrol wrote: »

And local police departments collect the data for those studies. In many (I believe a majority) of places police are not required to capture any/all data points and no audit is carried out.

Pushing for systematic data gathering on use of force is one of the demands of protesters.

Let’s assume you’re right for a second. That police officers don’t record the races of suspects which I find rather incredulous. That local police departments don’t gather data properly and therefore the black crime rate is lower than it appears. The percentage of murders committed by blacks would be closer to 15% than 57% since that’s the percentage blacks make up in the population. Assuming that’s true, do you really think the data is so biased and so flawed as to be off to the tune of 42%???

Do you realise what you’re saying? Your literally implying that police departments around the country are in systematic and/or incompetent fashion, falsely/mistakenly recording murders committed by blacks at higher rates than they are in reality. Sorry but it’s an insane implication. Especially in the larger city police departments where blacks are pretty highly represented in the force. In Atlanta were Rayshard Brooks was killed blacks make up HALF the police force. Are those black officers in on the conspiracy?

In the last 15 years police in the US police have been PULLING BACK from minority areas because they don’t want the hassle of being accused of racism every time they make an arrest or pull somebody over. Things like “Broken Windows Policing” which helped turn New York City from a hell hole into something remotely liveable during the 90s have been abandoned. If anything these areas are under policed and still blacks are over represented in crime statistics.

Foxtrol wrote: »

They had an outsized impact because that is what gets clicks/viewers. Multiple large protests have taken in many cities every day since the murder of George Floyd and they fell completely off the national/international news.

Are you serious? The media bent itself into a pretzel trying to emphasise that these protests were mostly peaceful which I agree they were but often at the expense of properly covering the riots which were, you know, the reason every major city in America had a curfew imposed.

When I said “outsized impact” I didn’t mean media impact. What I meant was that a small minority of people caused entire cities to be shut down.

Foxtrol wrote: »

It highlights how poor the data is regarding police shootings. Given how it has been proven over the last few weeks that police officers have lied about incidents, despite knowing there was video evidence, how do you keep holding the belief that a) the data they have collected is accurate and/or b) that the missing data is not selectively left out (e.g., not filling out the race when POC are the deceased)?

Again, even if we assume you’re right there’s absolutely no way those crime statistics can be as wrong as you say they are.

When 15% percent of the population commits half of the murders, that is not a statistical screw up. Back in the early 60s and before, the black crime rate rates were no where near as high (crime among all races was low) but this was the era of Jim Crow and the KKK. Police actually were systemically racist back then. They could have fabricated crime stats with impunity if they wished but they didn’t. Black crime rates spiked from the 70s onwards due to the single motherhood crisis.

Foxtrol wrote: »

From what I've seen, you haven't once made any broader argument that there isn't systematic racism in the US.

Well logically speaking I can’t prove a negative but go on.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What you've instead done is find one flawed data point and hid behind it to prove they don't have a point.

It really is the easiest game in the world when someone cites a study, you go “Bbbbut, that data is flawed. It was collected by people who can’t collect data properly.” and then you avoid ever having to engage with an argument. Sad.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I've haven't seen you deal with the impact of slavery, segregation, education, wider policing issues, the bail system, etc etc.

The single biggest problem in the black community is single motherhood. It is the no. 1 predictor of criminality, school failure and poverty. Segregation ended in 1965. At that time the black single motherhood rate was 25%, In 1991 it was 68% and in 2015 it was 78%. Are we gonna blame segregation for all of the black community’s problems today? Did America get more racist between 1965 and 2015 and if so how did that happen?

On wider policing issues, I am in favour of mandatory body cameras, more training and dismantling police unions and a return to the proactive policing that helped turn America around in the 90s.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You're claiming that you are being gaslit but I don't see any evidence you've actually done anything to understand why they're saying that their house is on fire.

I know why they’re saying they’re house is on fire. But I’ve looked at the data and I can see it isn’t true so I don’t believe them.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

You’re asking me to argue a hypothetical, ie. someone imaginary coming in here and blaming the white guy in the video.

I will argue with the best of them on boards but hypothetical imaginaries is where I draw the line.

Overheal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

dundalkfc10

Thread shout be renamed Raicst Scumbags this way

Irish to the core these lads (forgetting Irelands history)

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

The same type of people who pretend that Rayshard Brooks got what he deserved and was the only one responsible for what happened to him. All the same logic applies here.

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.