Pinch Flat wrote: » Referred to as "begging buttons: when velocity took place last year. Our European neighbours couldn't believe how low down the pecking order pedestrians are when it comes to crossing the road.
meeeeh wrote: » Anyway those who claim pedestrians should not be limited where to cross the road I invite you to test that theory on motorways.
magicbastarder wrote: » ah here, at least take the debate seriously.
meeeeh wrote: » So between pedestrian and a bus who wins out? You can be all indignant but if you have morons constantly jumping in front of public transport or cyclists, do you think that will improve things? Anyway those who claim pedestrians should not be limited where to cross the road I invite you to test that theory on motorways.
07Lapierre wrote: » I never suggested peds should be unlimited in wher to cross the road? i linked to an article which points out that the Danes have introduced lights that prioritise public transport and bicycles over cars. Peds would still have to wait to cross the road. So the answer is the bus wins.
meeeeh wrote: » Well your friend above flipped out about it and I think you liked some of his posts.
07Lapierre wrote: » We should do as the Danes do:https://www.sciencealert.com/copenhagen-just-installed-environmentally-friendly-traffic-lights-that-give-priority-to-buses-and-bikes#:~:text=Denmark%20Just%20Installed%20Environmentally%20Friendly%20Traffic%20Lights,Priority%20to%20Bikes%20And%20Buses&text=Bus%20passengers%20should%20see%20a,10%20percent%20quicker%2C%20on%20average.
07Lapierre wrote: » So i'm guilty by association?
Thelonious Monk wrote: » And of course it's a bad thing, that someone has to wait at the side of the road in case someone decides to drive past. Why should there be a hierarchy?
McKillen, the Dublin Cycling Campaign spokesperson.
Yet, do cyclists breaking red lights not pose a threat to pedestrians? “Absolutely,” says McKillen. “I mean, a cyclist poses a threat to a pedestrian just as a driver poses a threat to a cyclist. There’s a hierarchy of threats.”
Spook_ie wrote: » Would it not be better to give the priority to pedestrians, stop Thelonius having kittens?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » How about beg buttons for drivers? Lean out the window and press the button when you want to get through the junction.
meeeeh wrote: » And squeeze out any pedestrians or cyclists at the side of the road. You would actually want cars to endanger you more just so we would use dumb technology instead of sensors. Would the ambulances need to press the button twice just to make it a bit harder for them? Since you're on mission to endanger as many people as possible to help your stats anyway.
magicbastarder wrote: » not necessary for cars anyway. most junctions have the induction loops to detect them.
meeeeh wrote: » I'm being deadly serious. Traffic lights are there for a reason. How they are tuned or what sensors are used is a different question but the fact is zebra crossings are there to make crossing the road safer. Traffic lights are there to make traffic flow in some sort of organized way. Again it can be adjusted they way you want it but once they are there they need to be obeyed.
SeanW wrote: » But let's assume for the sake of argument that your view is, at least in part, correct. What happens if we build lots of cycle lanes and all the bad motorists collectively decide to raise their game, so to speak, but the end result is slightly higher casualties? Would that be a good thing? And what do you think all the motorist bashing windbags would have to say then? I think we both know that the shrieking from certain quarters would go from over the top to pathologically insane. I think we can predict that certain types would very soon change their trademark shriek to "MOTORISTS ARE KILLING 3 OR 4 PEOPLE EVERY WEEK! WE NEED REMOTE CONTROL OF EVERYONE'S CAR!!" It does seem like a no-win situation.
SeanW wrote: » 12 minutes for Andy to deflect. He's slipping. But I mean, after all, it would have been worse if they'd killed some of the pedestrians. Or even if a cyclist in Cork or Limerick had killed someone, then we could blame the Deliveroo cyclist for menacing the women with prams. But like virtually all journeys involving motor vehicles, nobody died. So let's focus on the motorists. Am I doing this right?
SeanW wrote: » Who killed them, individuals, or all motorists collectively? Or is collective guilt only OK when talking about one group?
SeanW wrote: » Or how about the scumbags menacing women with prams off the footpath? If I'm a pedestrian on Sean O'Casey bridge, do I have to worry about speeding motorists?
SeanW wrote: » The evidence that Irish drivers compare well with not only Irish history, but also drivers across both Europe and the world? Or is it OK to ignore evidence when it doesn't suit your argument?
SeanW wrote: » So the cyclist who menaced the two women with prams on the footpath so they could play zoom-zoom ... did it by accident? Did the cyclist not see the footpath? Or that there were women with prams in their way?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » I think traffic lights are there to stop drivers from killing each other. I recall seeing some clips from European cities during lockdown showing large numbers of cyclists getting through junctions with no traffic light controls and no real difficulties at all. Cyclists and pedestrians generally move slowly enough to find their own ways around without killing each other.
meeeeh wrote: » I don't know about you but I usually thank stuff I agree with (when I can be bothered).
liamog wrote: » I've noticed that on the continent, pedestrian crossings go green at the same time as traffic is allowed to turn. Whilst you'd think it would cause driver pedestrian conflict, instead it seems to work well. I think it trains drivers to look out for pedestrians at every junction instead of assuming the road will be clear.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » No it's absolute bullsh*t that cars are given right of way in city centres over pedestrians. How the hell did we ever swallow that as being normal? Standing at Baggot St and Merrion St every day at lunch for what seems like an age, so many people stacked into a corner that they're spilling onto the roads, while we wait for 10 cars or whatever to pass. It just makes no sense. People should be allowed cross or walk where they like, "jaywalking" is something invented by the automotive industry.
Spook_ie wrote: » How about I just ignore silliness and suggestions like yours. and wait for the reply from the person I quoted 1 Not all cars are LHD, therefore you would need two sets of buttons 2 Majority of cars are LHD therefore you would need to put a post with a button in the middle of the road.
TaurenDruid wrote: » Oh? If you're there every day, then you're perfectly placed to see the amount of red-light breaking from cars and cyclists, and you'll also notice that cars do it for a couple of seconds, while cyclists go through at any stage.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Most cars are RHD in my experience in Ireland, but sure the LHD drivers can just stop and get out. What's the problem with that?
How many video examples of motorists breaking very late reds will it take for you to realise that this is not true?
SeanW wrote: » What use would motorist call buttons provide that would justify the enormous expense of installing them and the problems they would cause for every driver? Your examples are all cherry picked. Most of us use the roads daily and see that most red light jumping by motorists is in the first few seconds of the red phase. No-one has denied that late stage RLJing by motorists occurs from time to time. It's just not the rule.
Pinch Flat wrote: » I dunno. Was out and about yesterday in the car. Every junction bar none the car on front of me jumped the red. Two were across green lights for pedestrians. Three cars streamed through on a red at one junction. So late that the traffic coming the other way had to slow to let the last car pass. Red light jumping by motorists is almost normalised now to the extent that if you don't speed up when the light goes red, you run a real chance of being rear ended. Saw a few cyclists breaking reds ad well. At this stage all groups of road users are doing it. I don't know why motorists get so wound up about cyclists breaking reds, because you'll rarely see motorists crib about other motorists breaking reds
