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Messy farm inheritance issue

roosky

Hi all,

I have a friend involved in a messy issue and I would appreciate your opinions on it as she came to me for advice and i want to have a balanced point to make.

Okay so her father and mother have a 80 acre sucker farm, she is actively involved in the farm and also does all book work and herd health and breeding decisions. Working away from home but home every weekend working on farm and takes holidays for calving etc...

She plans to return home in next two years to farm with father (will also have off farm job) and to live on farm or locally. She has two brothers living in Dublin with good jobs and no interest in farming and have no involvement in the farm or never had.

The parents have decided to split the farm equally between the three kids and said one can buy out the other if they want to farm.....obviously buying your home farm even at 2/3 of market value is not an attractive option and planning life and career around a 25 odd acre farm is silly.

Do you feel she has reason to feel upset and let down by her parents as she feels if she was an only son working in agri industry, actively involved in the family farm, planning on moving home and farming and had two sisters with no interest in the farm that the farm would not be split three ways and left unviable looking forward.

Are her parents doing the fairest thing or are they being silly to have a child interested in carrying on the family farm and letting that opportunity slip in the interest of “fairness” regardless of the gender thing ??

TIA

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wrangler

doc22 wrote: »

I can only imagine what the parents think with one that says If you don't give me the farm I'll have to go and make a career for myself like my bothers:rolleyes:.

...
You don't have to go in threatening but you do have to find what the offer is and the look at your options ............ and you should do that in your twenties

learner161

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

Why should the sons be disinherited? Of course dividing the estate is the best and fairest thing to do. If the daughter wants it she can buy them out. Nothing to do with gender; that suggestion sounds like manipulative nonsense.

Agree I see it the same way as you. My parents are doing the same dividing the farm between me and my brothers. They feel it's the fairest way, it will prevents us fighting over the land or feeling hard done by if it's all giving to one of us. We wouldn't fight over land it but dad has seen it happen to families teary them apart or cast up saying oh you got the farm while they got nothing.
This way we have a some land, now to be fair one of my brothers has told my parents to give me his share as he sees that he has a great job and that I be the one caring for our parents as he is away.
I don't see it as gender etc.

roosky

Lots of people have said to stop helping or get paid by the hour etc.....it’s important to remember everyone in the family is on very good terms and she gets on very well with her father and they both enjoy farming together so she isn’t going to throw a tantrum to put pressure on her parents.

The situation is that she wants to remain farming and at this stage of her life she wants to make an informed decision about the home farm because there is no point basing her life around the farm and then be faced with selling it or paying crazy money to keep it. She feels she should have a fair opportunity to stay farming in a way that her brothers get some inheritance and she is not buried in debt for the rest of her days. And of course the aim is to do this without falling out with brothers but I assume they will be slow to accept a smaller inheritance to keep her farming.

doc22

wrangler wrote: »

...
You don't have to go in threatening but you do have to find what the offer is and the look at your options ............ and you should do that in your twenties

In fairness she was told what was on offer and didn't like it, perhaps the parents are of the view that if she is such a great worker she should have no problem finding a farmer to marry with plenty of land rather then waiting for them to die.

TheW1zard

learner161 wrote: »

Agree I see it the same way as you. My parents are doing the same dividing the farm between me and my brothers. They feel it's the fairest way, it will prevents us fighting over the land or feeling hard done by if it's all giving to one of us. We wouldn't fight over land it but dad has seen it happen to families teary them apart or cast up saying oh you got the farm while they got nothing.
This way we have a some land, now to be fair one of my brothers has told my parents to give me his share as he sees that he has a great job and that I be the one caring for our parents as he is away.
I don't see it as gender etc.

How did your other brother feel about that?
Genuine question

memorystick

TheW1zard wrote: »

How did your other brother feel about that?
Genuine question

More importantly, is this your first big loan and how will you repay it? You’re effectively buying land.

einn32

Donald Trump wrote: »

Not sure why all the advice to stop helping out. If she is only willing to give her parents a hand if they put up a specific amount of money then if I was them I'd be telling her where to stick her "help".

She is not just helping she is making decisions on the future of the business by the sounds. She is doing finance and breeding. She works during holidays. I would have thought getting some cut off the business at this stage would be on the table. I'm all for helping out as a teenager or person in the early 20's. But when you have ambitions to take the place on surely you would be looking for a cut. Parents can take advantage too. It's my opinion. I'm sure many people have worked on the home farm for nothing for years and are happy to do so.

Unless she owes them for borrowed money or something then that's a different situation. I'm sure she could pay them back by working on the farm.

Farming is still a lifestyle in Ireland in many cases and it's done for the love of it. This is a case in point. I hope it works out for her and her family.

Donald Trump

einn32 wrote: »

She is not just helping she is making decisions on the future of the business by the sounds. She is doing finance and breeding. She works during holidays. I would have thought getting some cut off the business at this stage would be on the table. I'm all for helping out as a teenager or person in the early 20's. But when you have ambitions to take the place on surely you would be looking for a cut. Parents can take advantage too. It's my opinion. I'm sure many people have worked on the home farm for nothing for years and are happy to do so.

Unless she owes them for borrowed money or something then that's a different situation. I'm sure she could pay them back by working on the farm.

Farming is still a lifestyle in Ireland in many cases and it's done for the love of it. This is a case in point. I hope it works out for her and her family.

It's doesn't look like she has forsaken a career to keep the place going. It seems that she gives her parents a dig out in her free time and does the books etc. The parents might be asset rich and cashflow poor. If she can save her parents a chunk on accountants fees every year then a decent person would do that regardless.

I am sure that in the big scheme of things, she "owes" them far more money than her helping out has paid back!

She shouldn't give up her own job though without it being sorted if she has a decent job outside herself.

TheBoyConor

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

That sucks that she is only going to inherit just under 300k instead of getting her rightful 860k (especially when she would kindly give away 300k of that). Your assertion that most twenty-something year olds who do weekend jobs since their teens have accumulated well over 860k sounds like the coolheaded voice of reason. Those brothers with their "jobs" would just leave the money in their bank accounts. I can't imagine how her mother could think she wouldn't feel hard done by in this scenario!

There is always one brother who will piss it up the wall, or lose it all to some ex wife in a divorce. Then piss the remainder up the wall. There is one in every family.

TheBoyConor

littlemisshobo wrote: »

Planting could make it a more sustainable business and that's a better focus than farming animals. Great her brothers are taking a more sensible approach.

Clearly a non farmer.

Planting land is generally seen as the second worst option only to selling up. No loyalty to the land.

The useless brothers seem to have no interest. Yes, they got their education and good off farm careers, but at the end of the day what good is any of it if they can't take care of the land?

The girl should be commended and encouraged to take on the farm as a whole to keep it going. The will and land should be looked at not in terms of absolute value and money, but to make sure that each child is adequately provided for. The two useless brothers, they have their educations and careers. They are OK. The daughter can make the farm a large part of her her livelihood and should get that. The brothers then can be given money instead or perhaps a minor share in the land that the daughter can easily buy out, like a 10% share.
they can then take it and piss it up the wall, or let an ex wife take it or whatever.

doc22

TheBoyConor wrote: »

There is always one brother who will piss it up the wall, or lose it all to some ex wife in a divorce. Then piss the remainder up the wall. There is one in every family.

Ah common the daughter could do likewise, and the farm would lose the family name if she married.

TheBoyConor

Seems like she is a hard worker, interested in the farm and works hard on it. She takes her holidays from work to work on the farm, not gallivanting off around the world. From what she says, she will look after the land, she is capable of it.

She could also keep her name if she wanted and make sure that the family name passed on to the next generation. Or not marry at all, and keep the land and give it to any niece or nephew who demonstrates and ability and willingness to take care of the land. That is what I would be doing if I inherit the farm anyway, rather that risking losing everything on a divorce to some ex wife.

doc22

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Seems like she is a hard worker, interested in the farm and works hard on it. She takes her holidays from work to work on the farm, not gallivanting off around the world. From what she says, she will look after the land, she is capable of it.

She could also keep her name if she wanted and make sure that the family name passed on to the next generation. Or not marry at all, and keep the land and give it to any niece or nephew who demonstrates and ability and willingness to take care of the land. That is what I would be doing if I inherit the farm anyway, rather that risking losing everything on a divorce to some ex wife.

HA HA, the majority of bachelor farmers can barely look after themselves never mind land.

You dislike planting but If the EU cheques weren't handily coming through the post you'd see how some farmers love the land.

[Deleted User]

doc22 wrote: »

HA HA, the majority of bachelor farmers can barely look after themselves never mind land.

You dislike planting but If the EU cheques weren't handily coming through the post you'd see how some farmers love the land.

The same cheques that are making your food shopping so cheap every week, I wouldn’t be casting stones unless you would like be paying significantly more for your food.

Bullocks

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common the daughter could do likewise, and the farm would lose the family name if she married.

God forbid!!!!
Reading some of the posts here I'm glad I have the parents I do

whelan2

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common the daughter could do likewise, and the farm would lose the family name if she married.

I think in most cases the family are just happy if anyone shows an interest. Gender or losing family name doesn't come into it anymore. ( well not around here )

doc22

Bentlee Kind Teapot wrote: »

The same cheques that are making your food shopping so cheap every week, I wouldn’t be casting stones unless you would like be paying significantly more for your food.

The cheques bare no relation to actual production and the prices are determined by market forces. If farmers could raise and find a market they would

My point is some that aren't planting not due to some LOVE of the land, but rather they're getting another income stream from it.

Treppen

Inheritance issue is great reading material. This thread had died months ago and one person and for an update, then it's on fire again.

Just started watching Succession , just shows the best business to be in is legal.

doc22

whelan2 wrote: »

I think in most cases the family are just happy if anyone shows an interest. Gender or losing family name doesn't come into it anymore. ( well not around here )

Yeah sounds great but How many daughters vs sons have you seen inherit land?

whelan2

doc22 wrote: »

Yeah sounds great but How many daughters vs sons have you seen inherit land?

Donald Trump

doc22 wrote: »

My point is some that aren't planting not due to some LOVE of the land, but rather they're getting another income stream from it.

If you are referring to BPS payments, then that same income stream is available when you plant. Since 2009. Not exactly a new thing.

doc22

whelan2 wrote: »

Me

Only child

doc22

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you are referring to BPS payments, then that same income stream is available when you plant. Since 2009. Not exactly a new thing.

Yeah, ANC and Glas they will not

Lady Haywire

whelan2 wrote: »

Me

You forgot this.

whelan2

doc22 wrote: »

Only child

No 2 brothers and 2 older sisters

893bet

One swallow......

Electric Sheep

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common the daughter could do likewise, and the farm would lose the family name if she married.

You mean her father's name? It's not the family name.

She can choose any name she likes, it makes no difference to the farm, unless for some reason you think her father's name is more important than the name she chooses.

Buford T. Justice XIX

doc22 wrote: »

Yeah sounds great but How many daughters vs sons have you seen inherit land?

Plenty round here, anyway. Sons working away in the town and daughter working at home and looking after the parents.

As one man said, better a different name on the same family than it being drank away in the same name.

roosky

I think its awful sad that the family name thing still comes into it!

if my mother inherited her home farm and I was farming it to the standard that I do my own farm, I dont think my grandfather (lord rest him) would be that upset to see his farm being well minded, productive and being farmed by his grandson.....even if we do have different surnames.

Its hardly that big of a tragedy to see a farm move to an actively farming grandchild even if that grandchild has a different surname.

Base price

doc22 wrote: »

Yeah sounds great but How many daughters vs sons have you seen inherit land?

My late Uncle left his estate to myself (I'm female and the youngest) and my eldest brother. Our other two siblings (male and female) didn't get mentioned in his Will and they didn't complain as they knew we were the ones who had most interest/did more on the farm than they ever did.
Edit: My eldest brother is not married and is unlikely to marry. AFAIK he does not have any children, I have two adult sons and they will inherit my estate when my time comes.
As a matter of interest how many of ye have a Will made. I think it is the most important duty you should do and you can change it as your personal/financial circumstances change.