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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Rogerrabit

Hi cycling in footpaths is very dangerous for pedestrians especially now with this virus pandemic. Every day I witness these events cyclists on the footpaths spewing out germs as they cycle past pedestrians less than two feet from them. If any of these cyclists have the virus the pedestrians have no chance they will pick up the disease. Why do the police allow this carry on. They should be protecting the elderly instead of turning a blind eye to this outrageous carryon. What do yo think out there in Ireland the country whose population do not know how to wear a facemask.

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Pinch Flat

meeeeh wrote: »

it wasn't derailed at all. It just continues to create constant stream of superiority. I think we established that some of you think you are better than everyone else. This thread is about nothing else for a long time.

Some of choose a means of transport that is indeed far superior to a single occupant car for many commuting scenarios. It uses less road space, causes zero congestion, zero pollution and is a cheap way of getting from A to B. We also enjoy superior health resulting from this.

micar

ewc78 wrote: »

Personally I think Runners are superior to everyone.

As a runner and a cyclist, does that make be doubly superior?

Beta Ray Bill

Duckjob wrote: »

Why, everytime there's a positive story trying to promote cycling infrastructure (which would open up cycling for everyone), the comments fill up with the same tiredold comments about breaking red lights, riding 5 abreast, lycra, tour-de-france wannabes, tights, helmet, hi-viz etc etc etc etc.

I think because people experience this a lot, it's irritating being stuck behind a cyclist(s) without anywhere safe to overtake.
If it only happened once or twice a month it wouldn't be an issue, no one would talk about it ever. But it happens motorists regularly, and then they get the rage, and hence they complain about it.

What's worse is 20 cars queued up trying to get past on a country road, they could be waiting 5/10 mins to get past.
The cyclist can't keep stopping every time a car comes up behind them, they'd never get where they want to go.

Cyclist break red lights often cause it's a pain in the hole to go from a stop to moving at optimal speed again.
If it's super safe to do so I've not issue with them doing it. If anything goes wrong, it's they that's going under the wheels. They are responsible for their own safety in such scenarios

Duckjob wrote: »

And lets not forget a healthy splodge of how "cyclists" need to start paying road tax before they get "given" anything.

I don't think they should pay tax, but rules of the road/licence wouldn't go a miss.
Also I think all bikes should have a VIN and visible registration plate.

Duckjob wrote: »

None of those things have anything to do with the topic of opening up cycling for everybody.

It's been proved in other countries that cycle infrastructure, done properly, benefits everybody, including drivers. However, there's a certain mindset here that prevents certain people from seeing that bigger picture.

Maybe...
Irish people have a very different mindset than our EU neighbors.

Case in question:
€2,500,00 spent on an off road cycle way between Baldoyle and Portmarnock, and there are still cyclists using the Road because There are to many people on the cycle lane and the lads that are out for 60k cycle complain that they're being held up... Ironic

I do absolutely think that there should be more cycle lanes such as the one between Baldoyle and Portmarnock and the one on the Coast road up to Fairview. There are a few little design mistakes on both cycle lanes but mostly it's grand.
However in such a circumstance, where cycle lane like this exists, the cyclist should be obligated to use it and stay off Road.

Will it ever happen though..... Eh No!

The Infra in our cities is in need to desperate upgrades having being neglected for years.
Electricity
Water
Roads
Comms
etc
It's all creaking....

Hurrache

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I think because people experience this a lot, it's irritating being stuck behind a cyclist(s) without anywhere safe to overtake.
If it only happened once or twice a month it wouldn't be an issue, no one would talk about it ever. But it happens motorists regularly, and then they get the rage, and hence they complain about it.

What's worse is 20 cars queued up trying to get past on a country road, they could be waiting 5/10 mins to get past.
The cyclist can't keep stopping every time a car comes up behind them, they'd never get where they want to go.

Cyclist break red lights often cause ......

but rules of the road/licence wouldn't go a miss.
Also I think all bikes should have a VIN and visible registration plate.

Maybe...
Irish people have a very different mindset than our EU neighbors.

Case in question:
€2,500,00 spent on an off road cycle way between Baldoyle and Portmarnock, and there are still cyclists using the Road because There are to many people on the cycle lane and the lads that are out for 60k cycle complain that they're being held up... Ironic

I do absolutely think that there should be more cycle lanes such as the one between Baldoyle and Portmarnock and the one on the Coast road up to Fairview. There are a few little design mistakes on both cycle lanes but mostly it's grand.
However in such a circumstance, where cycle lane like this exists, the cyclist should be obligated to use it and stay off Road.

Will it ever happen though..... Eh No!

The Infra in our cities is in need to desperate upgrades having being neglected for years.
Electricity
Water
Roads
Comms
etc
It's all creaking....

In you come barging with a huge brush hitting everywhere in hope you get some coverage.

Everything you said has been said, and easily discredited, repeatedly.

Zebra3

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Case in question:
€2,500,00 spent on an off road cycle way between Baldoyle and Portmarnock, and there are still cyclists using the Road because There are to many people on the cycle lane and the lads that are out for 60k cycle complain that they're being held up... Ironic

Billions spent on motorways across the state, and there are still motorists using the back roads because there are too many people on the motorway and the lads that are out for 60k drive complain that they're being held up... Ironic

[Deleted User]

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I think because people experience this a lot, it's irritating being stuck behind a cyclist(s) without anywhere safe to overtake.
If it only happened once or twice a month it wouldn't be an issue, no one would talk about it ever. But it happens motorists regularly, and then they get the rage, and hence they complain about it.

Why specifically is it frustrating to be stuck behind a cyclist that you will almost certainly eventually get to overtake, but not frustrating to spend hours stuck in traffic jams, doing average speeds less than the average cyclist?

Have you worked out yet that the more people cycle, the less people that are in the line of cars in front of you?

[Deleted User]

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I don't think they should pay tax, but rules of the road/licence wouldn't go a miss.
Also I think all bikes should have a VIN and visible registration plate.

They already have Rules of the Road and VINs.

What value do you think that licence will have, in the context of the 2 or 3 people killed by motorists each week?

What value do you think that visible registration plates will have in the context of the 98% of drivers breaking urban speed limits, all with visible registration plates?

meeeeh

Zebra3 wrote: »

Billions spent on motorways across the state, and there are still motorists using the back roads because there are too many people on the motorway and the lads that are out for 60k drive complain that they're being held up... Ironic

I know at least one country with better cycling infrastructure where you would be fined for not using cycling lane where it is provided. Or for walking or cycling through the red light.

A lot of people here compare the infrastructure to other countries, none compare law enforcement and laws in those countries with superior infrastructure. I saw someone stated a thread the other day if it's ok to cycle drunk. I didn't check the thread so I don't know what the answer was but it's bad enough they needed to ask.

Zebra3

meeeeh wrote: »

I know at least one country with better cycling infrastructure where you would be fined for not using cycling lane where it is provided. Or for walking or cycling through the red light.

A lot of people here compare the infrastructure to other countries, none compare law enforcement and laws in those countries with superior infrastructure. I saw someone stated a thread the other day if it's ok to cycle drunk. I didn't check the thread so I don't know what the answer was but it's bad enough they needed to ask.

And I might know of a country that takes motorists killing cyclists seriously.

Hurrache

meeeeh wrote: »

I know at least one country with better cycling infrastructure where you would be fined for not using cycling lane where it is provided. Or for walking or cycling through the red light.

A lot of people here compare the infrastructure to other countries, none compare law enforcement and laws in those countries with superior infrastructure. I saw someone stated a thread the other day if it's ok to cycle drunk. I didn't check the thread so I don't know what the answer was but it's bad enough they needed to ask.

I'll let you into a secret, it used to be a legal obligation to use a cycle lane if one was provided here too. But sense prevailed.

07Lapierre

meeeeh wrote: »

I said as a group. In the end it's about what you project not who you actually are.

When you think of “cyclists” what do you see? What are they “projecting? Do you see all motorists in the same way?

ewc78

07Lapierre wrote: »

When you think of “cyclists” what do you see?

fat-man-riding-a-small-bicycle-picture-id529435829?k=6&m=529435829&s=612x612&w=0&h=qZR-k6UsJksLyxivpHF2pvsfBPe6BXDkh6vf0_VMvxQ=

07Lapierre

Guess i asked for that. When's your school reopening?

Beta Ray Bill

DISCLAIMER: I'm a motorcyclist and I WFH so none of the above or below applies to me. Cyclists don't hold me up
And they can have the city centre if they want it, I've no need to go there ever again!

Zebra3 wrote: »

Billions spent on motorways across the state, and there are still motorists using the back roads because there are too many people on the motorway and the lads that are out for 60k drive complain that they're being held up... Ironic

I think it's more they don't want to pay the toll more so than anything else.
I'll always use the motorway if I need to get somewhere fast.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why specifically is it frustrating to be stuck behind a cyclist that you will almost certainly eventually get to overtake, but not frustrating to spend hours stuck in traffic jams, doing average speeds less than the average cyclist?

Have you worked out yet that the more people cycle, the less people that are in the line of cars in front of you?

That would involved the average motorist having to look at themselves in the mirror... and that's not going to happen.
I will say though that when I do use the car it's only to collect my kid as he lives 30k round trip away.
Apart from that my car sits in the driveway Monday to Friday

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They already have Rules of the Road and VINs.

What value do you think that licence will have, in the context of the 2 or 3 people killed by motorists each week?

I don't know where you're getting the 2 or 3 a week being killed
I had google there and it says 83 cyclists were killed between 2010 and 2018 that works out at 0.2 a week.

In any case, even if they thought the use of a lifesaver, large amounts of cyclists do not do this. I notice because I'm on a motorcycle.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What value do you think that visible registration plates will have in the context of the 98% of drivers breaking urban speed limits, all with visible registration plates?

Theft, there's heaps of bikes nicked in Dublin every year.
Also, Regulation is a good thing.
I've a helmet cam and record everything, I report dopes driving cars like dopes all the time.

Duckjob

meeeeh wrote: »

I saw someone stated a thread the other day if it's ok to cycle drunk. I didn't check the thread so I don't know what the answer was but it's bad enough they needed to ask.

If you like I can use my telepathic link to the collective to retrieve "the answer" from the high council for you.

Seriously, some random person posts something on a forum that is available to anybody. Are you actually drawing some conclusion from that? (bearing in mind, by your own admission you didn't bother reading any of the replies)

meeeeh wrote:

I know at least one country with better cycling infrastructure where you would be fined for not using cycling lane where it is provided.

If you're referring to Netherlands please see recent post of mine where I addressed this:

07Lapierre

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting the 2 or 3 a week being killed.

Hes referring to the total number of road deaths per year, not just cyclists.
148 deaths in 2019.

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Fatal%20Collision%20Stats/Provisional_Reviews_of_Fatal_Collisions/RRD_Res_20191231_RSAProvisionalReviewFatalities31December2019_03Jan2020.pdf

Fred_

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Theft, there's heaps of bikes nicked in Dublin every year.
Also, Regulation is a good thing.

So registration plates stop cars from being robbed?

Is a regulatory measure a good thing if it decreases the number of cyclists during a climate and health emergency?

FinnC

micar wrote: »

As a runner and a cyclist, does that make be doubly superior?

Just need to add swimming now to achieve peak superiority!

FinnC

Fred_ wrote: »

So registration plates stop cars from being robbed?

They probably help in a lot of them recovered and returned to the rightful owner afterwards.

Beta Ray Bill

Fred_ wrote: »

So registration plates stop cars from being robbed?

Is a regulatory measure a good thing if it decreases the number of cyclists during a climate and health emergency?

Self regulation or no regulation = Bad

We've seen this time, after time, after time.

Banks
Builders
Taxis
etc

Regulation benefits all.

Fred_

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Self regulation or no regulation = Bad

We've seen this time, after time, after time.

Banks
Builders
Taxis
etc

Regulation benefits all.

No it does not. Poor regulation doesn't benefit all. Regulation against the use of cycling for transport would benefit no one. More traffic. More pollution. More consumer debt.

[Deleted User]

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Self regulation or no regulation = Bad

We've seen this time, after time, after time.

Banks
Builders
Taxis
etc

Regulation benefits all.

So you'd be in favour of increased regulation of motorists and motorcyclists to address the worrying death toll on the roads, presumably?

Mandatory tachographs for all, mandatory annual training, mandatory retesting every 3-5 years?

Regulation benefits all, right?

micar

FinnC wrote: »

Just need to add swimming now to achieve peak superiority!

I used to be a triathlete........but not anyone more......sooooooo close to peak superiority

magicbastarder

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

That would involved the average motorist having to look at themselves in the mirror... and that's not going to happen.

it's shouldn't be themselves they're looking out for when they check their mirrors. i'm here all week.

meeeeh

Hurrache wrote: »

I'll let you into a secret, it used to be a legal obligation to use a cycle lane if one was provided here too. But sense prevailed.

Oh right the country I mentioned has no sense. That's why for example is Ljubljana among the most cycle friendly cities in the world (despite dropping a bit) and Dublin is not.

magicbastarder

not sure if serious. it's kinda trivial that a country with **** cycling infrastructure would (sensibly) not have a law enforcing the use of that infrastructure.
Ljubljana probably has that law precisely because they've made proper provision for cyclists.

SeanW

07Lapierre wrote: »

Hes referring to the total number of road deaths per year, not just cyclists.
148 deaths in 2019.

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Fatal%20Collision%20Stats/Provisional_Reviews_of_Fatal_Collisions/RRD_Res_20191231_RSAProvisionalReviewFatalities31December2019_03Jan2020.pdf

Correct. In 2018 Ireland suffered 149 road fatalities. That was among the lowest in the world by every relative measure. If you are in Ireland, you have an approximately 99.99625% of surviving us motorists every year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

It's also near the lowest in Irish history, figures in the 100-200 range have not been seen since the 1940s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year

Irish drivers are not terrible. That's an indisputable fact. That doesn't stop sanctimonious two-wheeled hypocrites from hijacking every discussion with: bUt mOtOrIsTs aRe kIlLiNg eVeRyBoDy

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

After decades of commuting by bike and causing no problems whatsoever for anyone, I'm just sick to teeth of every discussion on cycling in all media becomes a tirade against people just trying to get around. It's ridiculous.

Firstly, there have been at least half a dozen routine pedestrians in this thread who can attest to the fact that Irish cyclists DO cause problems. And yet this entire thread has been a circle jerk of Andy and his fellow two-wheeled hypocrites crapping all over motorists ...

It really shouldn't be difficult to figure out why everyone hates you.

So you'd be in favour of increased regulation of motorists and motorcyclists to address the worrying death toll on the roads, presumably?

Mandatory tachographs for all, mandatory annual training, mandatory retesting every 3-5 years?

Well, you and your friends certainly are. Yet the data does not back it up.

In the United States, where drivers are subject to a once-in-a-lifetime road test, they lose over 39,000 people every year. That's much worse by every relative measure than Ireland, but pales in comparison to medical error, which is the third leading cause of death in the US, despite the fact that it's a lot harder to become (and to maintain status as) a doctor than a driver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_error
In spite of all that extra regulation and testing, 250,000 people die of medial error in the US, which puts that cause in the Top 3 of causes of death in the US.

All of this of course in addition to evidence of countries with much more stringent driver licensing laws like Canada also suffering more fatalities on their roads than Ireland.

So much for all that extra testing and regulation. :rolleyes:

DoraDelite

magicbastarder wrote: »

not sure if serious. it's kinda trivial that a country with **** cycling infrastructure would (sensibly) not have a law enforcing the use of that infrastructure.
Ljubljana probably has that law precisely because they've made proper provision for cyclists.

Agree, thought it was pretty strange to compare a city that was ranked 8th in the world for being most cycle friendly in 2017 to Dublin :rolleyes:

https://www.wired.com/story/world-best-cycling-cities-copenhagenize/

Cycle friendly implying that there is actual infrastructure there, not painted lines and shared bus lanes.

meeeeh

DoraDelite wrote: »

Agree, thought it was pretty strange to compare a city that was ranked 8th in the world for being most cycle friendly in 2017 to Dublin :rolleyes:

https://www.wired.com/story/world-best-cycling-cities-copenhagenize/

Cycle friendly implying that there is actual infrastructure there, not painted lines and shared bus lanes.

They are bit lower now. However if you ever cycle around Ljubljana I can guarantee you will be sitting at the traffic lights waiting for them to turn green as will everyone else. If you make a traffic offence as a cyclist there is a lot more likely you will be fined or warned (you are supposed to carry an ID). There is a good chance you will be breathalyzed if they think you are cycling erratically and so on. My point is that with more people cycling comes better infrastructure but also better road behavior expected by cyclists. Yet here the response to anything is but drivers, but potholes, but it's hard to stop at the lights and so on... It's all about the infrastructure and nothing about the behavior.

DoraDelite

meeeeh wrote: »

They are bit lower now. However if you ever cycle around Ljubljana I can guarantee you will be sitting at the traffic lights waiting for them to turn green as will everyone else. If you make a traffic offence as a cyclist there is a lot more likely you will be fined or warned (you are supposed to carry an ID). There is a good chance you will be breathalyzed if they think you are cycling erratically and so on. My point is that with more people cycling comes better infrastructure but also better road behavior expected by cyclists. Yet here the response to anything is but drivers, but potholes, but it's hard to stop at the lights and so on... It's all about the infrastructure and nothing about the behavior.

That is fine, I could also guarantee that if the cyclist in Ljubljana are more likely to be fined etc then you could be damn sure their motorist would too. I would rather we start from the top down with enforcement rather than picking off the small fry that would make a negligable difference. In fact start with the Matthews bus drivers who seem to have a default speed of 80kmh in 50kmh zones in the city centre and also don't seem to know the width of their vehicles.

As for infrastructure, if we keep refusing to build it, we will ever get the people we want out cycling. The current state of cycling in Dublin is only for the brave and assertive and it will remain so with each irrational objection to building segregated and safe cycling infrastructure.