downcow wrote: » I was simply reacting to a post that suggested that Irish people flock to support their own. The example given was flocking to see Roy Keane. I am just pointing out that it is the people in Northern Ireland who are flocking to Sunderland to support Michael O'Neill. Which supports my theory that he is Northern Irish
FrancieBrady wrote: » There is a huge range of professional input to preserving and promoting a language across a wide area. It isn't a hobby or a part time pursuit is the point. There is no similarity in what a 'language' needs to what a band culture needs. So therefore to whinge that bands don't get enough because they are loyalist is wrong and victimhood. For your information, amateur drama is not supported by the Arts Council here but professional theatre is. The umbrella group for AM Dram may get some funding but it is small in comparison.
munsterlegend wrote: » They are obviously not great on English geography. Michael O’Neill is at Stoke.
uet69248 wrote: » Not too long, hopefully.
downcow wrote: » Where was I whinging. I think Irish is being artificially propped up instead of letting ordinary Irish people decide what is worth preserving
downcow wrote: » Indeed. A typo
munsterlegend wrote: » A typo you made twice. Maybe they are all travelling to support James McClean given he is from the north east too. I don’t know why you bring up sport as it’s an area whereby except soccer the island competes as one.
downcow wrote: » I didn’t bring sport up.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » England will not let go of Scotland easily, wait for the dirty tricks if it looks like it will go indy.
BonnieSituation wrote: » "The English" Amazing how freely people can say such things and not realise the anachronistic nonsense that it is the "English" rather than the "British" or even the "Scots" themselves that get to decide the destiny of Scotland.
Hamsterchops wrote: » The English this, the English that, the English ..... The English are ordinary people who just get on with their lives, so I don't subscribe to the English doing anything to hold onto Scotland or Northern Ireland, indeed most English people would probably wish they'd just go away and give them some peace Westminster is another story, and it's Westminster that holds the United Kingdom together as one. So by all means blame the politicians in Westminster, but I don't think you can just blame "The English" for keeping Scotland & Northern Ireland captive.
BonnieSituation wrote: » Not at all shocking that you missed the point. Nor made a new one.
BonnieSituation wrote: » You're deliberately being obtuse here. Joey's a Kiwi and ROG is a yank sure. Gdg's narrow view of Irishness rules out the likes of Richardt Strauss and even yourself I'd wager. Remove your anti Francie blinkers for a moment.
Yeah_Right wrote: » Francie claims that everyone born on the island of Ireland is Irish. Fact. End of story. No debate. I used Heaslip as an example of how that is a stupid position to take. He was born to Irish parents (one of whom was serving in the Irish army) and raised in Ireland but because he was born in Israel, going by Francie;s logic, he is Israeli. Its ridiculous. Another example is Stephen Moore who was born in Saudi Arabia to Irish parents and raised in Australia. According to Francie, he is Saudi. Do you agree? Going by Francie's logic, yes Ronan O'Gara is American because he spent the first 6 months of his life there. I disagree. Joey is a bit different. Born in NZ to an Irish mum and an Irish-Kiwi dad. Raised in NZ for a bit. I'd call him Irish-Kiwi. My point is that nationality is not based solely on your place of birth. You have to factor in where your parents are from and where you are raised. Francie refuses to do this and just has a blinkered view that everyone born here is Irish so everyone should be happy with a united Ireland. He refuses to accept that people can be born on this island and not be Irish. I don't know if he accepts that people can move to Ireland and become Irish.
downcow wrote: » This is part of the issue. From where I'm looking it seems to be all about 'preserving and promoting' the Irish language, and i would go further, that for many involved it is about showcasing, pushing, even forcing it on those who have no interest. It may transform it if you take a leaf out of the loyalist marching scene and just focus on enjoying and celebrating it, live it, breathe it and feel good about it. The rest will then follow with little or no funding needed and it will flourish, just like the band scene is currently. If it doesn't flourish, then maybe its not worth 'preserving and promoting'. ....or put another way, take a chill pill and relax and enjoy it for what it is
If the Orange Intuition’s failure was shambolic, Unionism’s failure was hugely damaging. In what should have been an example of positive and progressive Unionism, comfortable with its place in the UK extending a gesture to those who cherish the Irish language. By doing so, they could illustrate to non-Unionists that Northern Ireland as part of the UK can work for everyone. Unfortunately what happened was that Unionism whipped up hysteria based on its latest bogeyman the Irish Language Act (ILA), all sorts of unfounded allegations were levelled against the language from how it would undermine English, make Unionists feel less British and that masses of the population faced discrimination if they did not speak the language. These fears were never expanded on as they were generally groundless but the ILA became such a big bogeyman that Lundy was in real danger of being temporarily replaced. Arlene Foster alluded that any gesture towards the Irish language would be akin to feeding a crocodile in that those Irish speakers would come back for more and more and more. Gregory Campbell during his time as an MLA infamously mocked the language (curry my yogurt) and then at the DUP party conference said they would treat Sinn Fein’s wish list on the Irish language like toilet paper. The key mistake here apart from the insults was to align the language to Sinn Fein rather than treating the language as an independent entity. Steve Aiken surprisingly said that the UUP were further to the right on the Irish language than even the DUP were. Lord Kilclooney on Twitter has been firing out accusation followed by accusation about the evils of the Irish language and even insinuated that Northern Ireland would have to have all of its street signs in Irish. Ironically I found a wonderful short documentary on Youtube about John Taylor and his newspaper group Alpha. In the snippet on Youtube he discusses how his company bought some rundown houses and upgraded them for single people and small families, at the time (1970’s) there was a campaign to introduce Irish into street names and John Taylor said he would get in ahead of this trend and name the first one in Armagh city. So he named the street where the houses were upgraded “Faugh-A-Ballagh-Court” which means “clear the way” and this Irish slogan is the motto of the Royal Irish Rangers whose barracks was close to the street and thus the street was named in Irish. The maturity from the John Taylor of the 1970’s does not chime with Lord Kilclooney of 2020 and his anti-Irish language scaremongering.
Fionn1952 wrote: » Flemish is a Dutch language, not a Belgian one. The Swiss do indeed use a number of languages....the only native one has fewer speakers than Irish. Austria's part in the Austro-Hungarian empire has what to do with their speaking German? And you ignored the Cypriots. I'm fully aware a country's native language doesn't have to be named for the country, but none of those countries speak their native language, whatever way you try to spin it. According to you, they're not countries at all apparently!
FrancieBrady wrote: » If 4 generations of your family were born in Ireland and you were too, then you are as Irish as anyone.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Not according to Pearse and I agree with him on it. Especially due to the proximity to England, Scotland/Wales - there is still a colonial mindset that Irish people cannot shake. Which is why there is absolutely no discussion about Ireland returning to the commonwealth in order to attain a Republic.
Yeah_Right wrote: » I agree. What if 4 generations of your family were born in Spain but you were born in Ireland and raised in Spain, would you be Irish?
FrancieBrady wrote: » Again, you are using exceptions to a general rule here and it doesn't cover the situation we are specifically talking about.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Not according to Pearse and I agree with him on it. Especially due to the proximity to England, Scotland/Wales - there is still a colonial mindset that Irish people cannot shake. Which is why there is absolutely no discussion about Ireland returning to the commonwealth in order to attain a Republic. Irish people have blinkers on when it comes to alternatives. Returning to the commonwealth shows inclusion to those of a different political persuasion and it would result in a far more stable Republic. It would also provide new avenues for trade previously unexplored. I will have a more detailed post on the history of those who wanted a UI within the commonwealth later and why I think it is a good idea.
Yeah_Right wrote: » You're the one that said "everybody" born on the island of Ireland was Irish. You defended that claim by saying Heaslip was Israeli. Your words. Own it If you now accept that you were wrong, thats fine. Good for you.
BonnieSituation wrote: » Explain again, other than "because you think so", what problem joining the commonwealth solves right now?
Fionn1952 wrote: » So you are standing by your assertion that Belgium, Cyprus, Austria and Switzerland aren't countries?!
gormdubhgorm wrote: » They don't have that colony mindset except Cyprus. And have an inclusive approach which stops them fracturing. Unlike Ireland. I don't know why you persist in using Austria as an example as German is thier main lingo - the only difference is in dialect. Many in Switzerland are multi-lingual in using languages as communication. In Ireland Irish is not used as a communication language and only approx 70,000 people speak it as a language of communication. It has only being used as political tool instead of a language of communication this is easily done. By just speaking the language. But for some reason many proud Republicans who call for a UI for a sense of national identity don't speak Irish or have a low level. It does not say much to me for a future of a UI that English is still the main language of Ireland after 100 years.https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/libraryResearch/2016/2016-11-07_l-rs-note-the-irish-language-a-linguistic-crisis_en.pdf If Ireland cannot even get thier own culture in order, how will they manage real inclusiveness in NI? I still believe that a country is not a real country without a widely spoken native language as communication. It is just people using the language of another instead. Definitely lacking.
FrancieBrady wrote: » The absolute explosion in Gael Scoilenna is a 'political tool'? Will you get a grip gormdubh. You are just sledgehammering this stuff together to make a self deprecating point. How desperate are you?
