Why is Ireland lagging behind the world in cannabis legalisation / decriminalisation?

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 9:26am

Decriminalisation only

Jet Black wrote:

It's not addictive* It doesn't cause lung cancer (doesn't have to be smoked) Mental health benefits?

If you have preexisting mental health issues, don't go near the stuff, it ll more than likely makes things much worse

Jet Black · 22-06-2020 9:50am

timsey tiger wrote: »

It also smells.

So does bull****, if only we could ban that.

chrissb8 · 22-06-2020 9:54am

Decriminalisation only

Gradius wrote: »

Well the other bloke disappeared.

My point is that the opinion of a person who's number one priority is getting stoned should not be trusted when they start bleating about all these supposed benefits for others.

All these things like getting rid of criminality associated with drugs...its not exactly stopping them now, is it? It's not their priority now, is it? They don't care.

It would be nice for them to have a guilt-free drug, but when it comes to the shove, it doesn't matter to them anyway.

Talking out of their hole, in other words.

Well, here I am now. When I get weed I get it from a local guy who gets his stuff off local growers. My number one priority is my life. Getting stoned isn't the be-all and end all of most stoners days. If there's something to be done it gets done and then I will smoke.

The done thing is people buy it in bulk off the dark web, from a grower and then break it all up into sellable amounts e.g. 3-4grams or a quarter.

People seem to have an impression that it's coming from really dodgy sources which yes maybe that's true in some cases (again why it should be legalised). But for most part, that is not what I've experienced but really once you have found a reliable dealer you tend to stay loyal by virtue of the fact you know what you're getting.

It would be nice to have guilt-free clothing too, but you're not about to look at the label of every piece of clothing you buy and check the charter for workers rights are you?

I'm finding it amazing all the fear-mongering and conjecture going on when there is empirical evidence for the strong benefits of the drug and also the fact that it works in places with much bigger populations than Ireland. Or maybe people are forming an opinion on their own prejudices as opposed to factual evidence?

Think it's more the latter.

maccored · 22-06-2020 10:11am

TuringBot47 wrote: »

And how many doped out potheads are a positive influence on society?
Does it help them to work and contribute to society, or does it just mean they can be lazy nobodies drugged out on their sofa?

Of course it's a gateway drug.
They get their weed from drug dealers, you don't think they try upselling?

I'd a brother-in-law... never harmed a soul, but loved his weed.
Out of employment more than he was in it.

Got a call he was found dead on his sofa.
I still remember the roars of his mother as his body was brought into their sitting room before the funeral.

These days, alcohol would be considered a drug and banned. But too ingrained in society.

Decriminalising drugs only helps the useless losers that use them, certainly does absolutely no good for the decent people who contribute to society.

what a load of lazy bollocks. I know many people - myself included - who hold down good jobs, work as hard as anyone, isnt a 'useless loser' and smoke pot.

Better than alcohol and not as harmful.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 10:12am

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote:

Better than alcohol and not as harmful.

Tis is me bollocks

Gooey Looey · 22-06-2020 10:20am

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Tis is me bollocks

Care to back that up with some dangers!

3 people a day die from alcohol in this country

timsey tiger · 22-06-2020 10:28am

ladystardust wrote: »

Only if its smoked. And even then, cigarette smoke smells horrific also. Society hasnt told big tobacco to eff off just yet. Marijuana is Just another choice of mood altering substance. Like tobacco, alcohol, coffee, caffeine. And to be fair THC is fairly benign compared to tobacco and alcohol

Yes it is very hard fight off the vested interests involved, tobacco, alcohol, big pharma, ... Anybody would be a naive fool to believe cannabis will be any different. Lots of people in us, thought cannabis would be a nice cottage industry, it didn't take long for the big industry take over.

Fracture · 22-06-2020 10:59am

Decriminalisation only

This country is a long way off making it legal.

This article was published just before the election on each parties stance on the topic.
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-political-parties-drug-policy-4993553-Feb2020/

I'd imagine the political parties in this country don't want to touch the subject as it might damage potential votes. A lot of people in the country still have a view on cannabis that reflects the bad propaganda put out decades ago, which is evident in this thread.

CrabRevolution · 22-06-2020 11:01am

snotboogie wrote: »

Tax Revenue, freeing up Garda and customs time to work on actual crimes, an alternative less dangerous legal drug than alcohol, freeing up jails and courts by not prosecuting non violent criminals, giving young men who would otherwise have a criminal record a proper chance in life by not prosecuting them for a harmless crime.

While I'm indifferent to legalisation, nobody is in jail for smoking cannabis so this is nonsense.

Gooey Looey · 22-06-2020 11:04am

Decriminalisation only

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While I'm indifferent to legalisation, nobody is in jail for smoking cannabis so this is nonsense.

You can get a criminal record for possession this can lead to issues with employment and travel

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 11:32am

Decriminalisation only

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Care to back that up with some dangers!

3 people a day die from alcohol in this country

yup, ive seen it used as a gateway drug, i know people that have a weed addiction, including family members, and their mental state is not good, long term unemployment, paranoid ideation and other complex behavioral problems, more than likely induced from a lifetime use of weed and other drugs, but particularly weed. it really does a lot of harm, maybe as harmful as alcohol

22-06-2020 11:42am

We have enough people off their heads already on alcohol and heaven knows what else. As a nation we have more than our share of mental illness, addiction issues, we have too many vulnerabilities. I know for a start cannabis does not suit me personally, had very bad reaction to the stuff and never took the stuff again. And I’d be more than worried about people who are so anxious and eager to gain access to cannabis or anything mind altering-they are probably the ones who need to avoid them. I don’t want to encounter any more people off their heads particularly whilst driving a vehicle.

Gooey Looey · 22-06-2020 11:42am

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yup, ive seen it used as a gateway drug, i know people that have a weed addiction, including family members, and their mental state is not good, long term unemployment, paranoid ideation and other complex behavioral problems, more than likely induced from a lifetime use of weed and other drugs, but particularly weed. it really does a lot of harm, maybe as harmful as alcohol

If their mental state is poor they shouldn't be self medicating with cannabis, alcohol or any other drug. I know plenty of precessionals who partake from time to time who live normal healthy professional working lives.

Gooey Looey · 22-06-2020 11:52am

Decriminalisation only

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have enough people off their heads already on alcohol and heaven knows what else. As a nation we have more than our share of mental illness, addiction issues, we have too many vulnerabilities. I know for a start cannabis does not suit me personally, had very bad reaction to the stuff and never took the stuff again. And I’d be more than worried about people who are so anxious and eager to gain access to cannabis or anything mind altering-they are probably the ones who need to avoid them. I don’t want to encounter any more people off their heads particularly whilst driving a vehicle.

Agreed, stoned people should not be driving while stoned. It's already the law.

Cannabis is readily available, anyone that wants it can easily get it without any bother. Keeping it illegal does in no way reduce availablity!

CrankyHaus · 22-06-2020 11:59am

Excellent point. Prohibition may have made sense decades ago, when the drug was not available everywhere. But that time is long passed.

IME alcohol is far more of a gateway drug. People are far more likely to make stupid choices and try another drug after a rake of pints than they are after smoking a joint.

Cannabis is far from harmless, and the OTT advocates of it as a miracle solution for everything are eejits, but the most sensible way to manage its harm is legalisation.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 12:28pm

Decriminalisation only

Gooey Looey wrote: »

If their mental state is poor they shouldn't be self medicating with cannabis, alcohol or any other drug. I know plenty of precessionals who partake from time to time who live normal healthy professional working lives.

unfortunately self medicating more or less goes hand in hand with complex disorders including mental health issues, its common to experience this, it shows a dramatic failure in our mental health services and our health system as a whole in order to deal with these complex issues. ive self medicated myself in the past with alcohol, thankfully i stopped there and never moved onto illegal drugs, id be a train wreck now if i did, thankfully i realized alcohol was doing great damage to my mental well being, and stopped drinking a few years ago, and started using the mental services, with great effect.

ive worked with lads that horsed everything into themselves, particularly at the weekends, but also during working hours, this included higher level employees, management etc, i personally think the dysfunction that is created from such activities shows up somewhere in their lives, if not professionally, but in their personal lives

nice bit of green · 22-06-2020 12:29pm

Decriminalisation only

I’d argue that giving it some sort of decriminalised/legalised classification would reduce the amount of people taking it while operating machinery/driving cars etc.
The cat is out of the bag. The vast majority of people with any sort of relationship with it, know it to be relatively harmless. Sincere apologies to any of you where this is not the case.
Start treating it and the general population with the respect we deserve and people’s’ attitudes will change as regards to what they will and won’t do while stoned.

kowloonkev · 22-06-2020 12:36pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Excellent point. Prohibition may have made sense decades ago, when the drug was not available everywhere. But that time is long passed.

IME alcohol is far more of a gateway drug. People are far more likely to make stupid choices and try another drug after a rake of pints than they are after smoking a joint.

Cannabis is far from harmless, and the OTT advocates of it as a miracle solution for everything are eejits, but the most sensible way to manage its harm is legalisation.

Never understand the people saying that alcohol is as bad so cannabis should be legal. Surely the logical thinking would be the banning of alcohol. But ultimately the potheads want their alcohol too. They're fooling nobody except themselves.

CrankyHaus · 22-06-2020 12:44pm

kowloonkev wrote: »

Never understand the people saying that alcohol is as bad so cannabis should be legal. Surely the logical thinking would be the banning of alcohol. But ultimately the potheads want their alcohol too. They're fooling nobody except themselves.

Banning alcohol has been tried before. It was a disaster.
The logical thing would be making public policy based on realism rather than childish absolutism.

kowloonkev · 22-06-2020 1:00pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Banning alcohol has been tried before. It was a disaster.
The logical thing would be making public policy based on realism rather than childish absolutism.

But it's still the logical thinking, rather than legalizing new harmful substances just because other harmful substances are already legal.

Childish whataboutism is no better.

nice bit of green · 22-06-2020 1:10pm

Decriminalisation only

So, am not a regular contributor to this forum but what’s the ballpark amount of pages a thread needs before we get things legalised?

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:10pm

Decriminalisation only

nice bit of green wrote: »

So, am not a regular contributor to this forum but what’s the ballpark amount of pages a thread needs before we get things legalised?

best of luck

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:12pm

Decriminalisation only

I have to buy cannabis online illegally for my mothers rheumatoid arthritis

The cannabinoids I purchase with a ratio of equal parts CBD to THC (1:1), she says its the only thing that gives her great relief from her symptoms without taking powerful painkillers, but yet its still illegal for me to purchase due to people's ignorance, which is displayed quite brilliantly on this thread

Perhaps some of the "drugs are bad" brigade should do some research instead of spouting the same outdated propaganda and misinformation since the 1930s

There is a lot more to Cannabis, than the same old stereotypes trotted out everytime legalisation is mentioned

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:15pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

I have to buy cannabis online illegally for my mothers rheumatoid arthritis

The cannabinoids I purchase with a ratio of equal parts CBD to THC (1:1), she says its the only thing that gives her great relief from her symptoms without taking powerful painkillers, but yet its still illegal for me to purchase due to people's ignorance, which is displayed quite brilliantly on this thread

Perhaps some of the "drugs are bad" brigade should do some research instead of spouting the same outdated propaganda and misinformation since the 1930s

There is a lot more to Cannabis, than the same old stereotypes trotted out everytime legalisation is mentioned

drugs generally are bad for peoples well being

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:18pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

drugs generally are bad for peoples well being

sugar is bad for your well being, so what's your point?

ladystardust · 22-06-2020 1:21pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

drugs generally are bad for peoples well being

Well that statement is just demonstrably incorrect. Medicines are drugs. All of which come with risk. Paracetamol is incredibly easy to overdose on and can have irreversible side effects of same. However, I know what you mean. This is also not necessarily true. There is an inherent social bias that comes from a long line of propaganda which was mostly to do with politics. See 'reefer madness'. Interestinhly LSD has been shown to be extremely effective and efficacious in the treatment of severe depression. I dont know why this is any worse than zapping electricity into someone's brain. But its illegal, therefore, not an option.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:21pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

sugar is bad for your well being, so what's your point?

so are a lot of food ingredients, excessive work, nicotine, lack of regular exercise, excessive eating etc etc, weed isnt a wonder drug, it can be very harmful

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:24pm

Decriminalisation only

ladystardust wrote: »

Well that statement is just demonstrably incorrect. Medicines are drugs. All of which come with risk. Paracetamol is incredibly easy to overdose on and can have irreversible side effects of same. However, I know what you mean. This is also not necessarily true. There is an inherent social bias that comes from a long line of propaganda which was mostly to do with politics. See 'reefer madness'. Interestinhly LSD has been shown to be extremely effective and efficacious in the treatment of severe depression. I dont know why this is any worse than zapping electricity into someone's brain. But its illegal, therefore, not an option.

i suffer with depression and anxiety, and not a hope in hell would i consider consuming illegal drugs or would i advise it to treat such issues, yes pharmaceutical drugs can be harmful, but there is a process in place to limit its harm

Fracture · 22-06-2020 1:25pm

Decriminalisation only

kowloonkev wrote: »

But it's still the logical thinking, rather than legalizing new harmful substances just because other harmful substances are already legal.

Childish whataboutism is no better.

Human beings have always enjoyed taking substances like alcohol, mushrooms, cannabis etc for thousands of years, some arseholes who don't agree with it shouldn't be able to dictate to others if they are allowed to use it or not, especially when said arseholes enjoy substances such as alcohol.

The "childish whataboutism" in this case is merely pointing out the hypocrisy.

Alcohol is a strong substance, most people can handle it perfectly fine and enjoy it while a minority can't, that doesn't mean it should be banned and your point is stupid nonsense. If you don't want to use cannabis or drink alcohol then don't bother with it and mind your own business.

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:30pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

weed isnt a wonder drug, it can be very harmful

in my Mother's case, yes it very much is

or would you prefer she takes prescribed painkillers that are slowly killing her?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suffer with depression and anxiety, and not a hope in hell would i consider consuming illegal drugs or would i advise it to treat such issues

Did you ever ask yourself why weed is illegal? or even look up the wealth of information on the subject?

Here is some information from the canadian government

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/topics/cannabis-for-medical-purposes.html

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:33pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

in my Mother's case, yes it very much is

or would you prefer she takes prescribed painkillers that are slowly killing her?

if it works for her, go for it, maybe she can try other alternatives such as apple cider vinegar and yoga etc, might help. pharmaceutical drugs have limits also, and long term use can also be dangerous

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:38pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

apple cider vinegar and yoga etc

jasus, do you even know what rheumatoid arthritis is like?

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:42pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

in my Mother's case, yes it very much is

or would you prefer she takes prescribed painkillers that are slowly killing her?

Did you ever ask yourself why weed is illegal? or even look up the wealth of information on the subject?

Here is some information from the canadian government

thanks, but ive little or no interest in reading so, a better approach would be to legalise it like other addictive substances, implementing safety measures for its continuous use, but be aware, legislation will not solve all the issues with it, and would in fact introduce its only problems, some complex and dangerous, leading to deaths and life long issues.

kingtiger wrote: »

jasus, do you even know what rheumatoid arthritis is like?

yes, family members had/have it, ive mild arthritis myself

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:46pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thanks, but ive little or no interest in reading sof

enough said

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 1:47pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

enough said

great, please tell us why its illegal?

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 1:54pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

great, please tell us why its illegal?

Here you go

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:00pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

Here you go

thanks, i ll go about my day, i ll be interested in engaging in a sensible mature conversation if you re willing

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 2:02pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thanks, i ll go about my day, i ll be interested in engaging in a sensible mature conversation if you re willing

I will be waiting, have a read and come back with your thoughts

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:02pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

I will be waiting, have a read and come back with your thoughts

i wont be able to read it, sorry

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 2:04pm

Decriminalisation only

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i wont be able to read it, sorry

but if you are not informed, how can we have this mature conversation?

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:06pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

but if you are not informed, how can we have this mature conversation?

i believe im reasonably well informed, i certainly have my own opinions on the matter

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:24pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Tis is me bollocks

yes, it is less harmful than alcohol. its non addictive for a start. you dont get the shakes if you stop smoking - you'll be pissed off for a few days but thats about it.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:25pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

yes, it is less harmful than alcohol. its non addictive for a start. you dont get the shakes if you stop smoking - you'll be pissed off for a few days but thats about it.

again, tis in me bollocks!

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:26pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, tis in me bollocks!

are you telling me it is? Do you know what addiction means?

Theres a thing called use disorder when people feel they are dependent on it. Restrict access or dont let them at the stuff for a few days and the dependency gone. Alcohol isnt like that if you are addicted to it

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:28pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

are you telling me it is? Do you know what addiction means?

yes its addictive, i know some people that have been addicted to it for many decades, including family members. shur go on, please explain what addiction is?

kingtiger · 22-06-2020 2:29pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

are you telling me it is? Do you know what addiction means?

there is no point debating with someone who wont inform themselves on the subject they are arguing about

Just let them wallow in ignorance

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:30pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes its addictive, i know some people that have been addicted to it for many decades, including family members. shur go on, please explain what addiction is?

and what happens when they stop? get ill, have the shakes, vomit? No - they are in a bad mood. a few days later they'll be in a better one.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:30pm

Decriminalisation only

maccored wrote: »

are you telling me it is? Do you know what addiction means?

Theres a thing called use disorder when people feel they are dependent on it. Restrict access or dont let them at the stuff for a few days and its gone. Alcohol isnt like that if you are addicted to it

or keep them out of jail and offer them health based services that will help them with their addiction problems and any other complicated disorders that they may have, jail is bloody expensive, doesnt really solve many complex social issues, in fact exasperates many

maccored · 22-06-2020 2:31pm

kingtiger wrote: »

there is no point debating with someone who wont inform themselves on the subject they are arguing about

Just let them wallow in ignorance

its because of that ignorance that people are getting locked up for having a few grams of smoke, when more serious criminals could be spending longer in the slammer

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2020 2:31pm

Decriminalisation only

kingtiger wrote: »

there is no point debating with someone who wont inform themselves on the subject they are arguing about

Just let them wallow in ignorance

hahaha, no bother lads

Why is Ireland lagging behind the world in cannabis legalisation / decriminalisation?

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