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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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[Deleted User]

Treppen wrote: »

Cos if you pay $hit you get $hit

Oddly enough, not the case with the PS.

The well paid can sometimes be terrible, like the corrupt Gardai, teachers that shouldn't be in a classroom,etc.

While the poorly paid SW clerk generally provides a good service to the public. And even with the poor pay, thousands and thousands wait on panels hoping to join.

[Deleted User]

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yeah I'm on a pre-2000 contract so will get the PS pension within a few months of retirement.

Im not fully au fait with this pension lark but will be before I go. Although, you may know more about it than me at this stage.

theres pre 95, 2004 new entrants, post 2014 single scheme

im not aware of any scheme where you leave at the age youre projecting and get the pension youre looking for there

early retirement kicks off at 55 for some schemes (not sure if you qualify, doubt it) with massive discounts to the payments

the COAP does not kick in until the usual age if you are post 95

basically, get some advice on your plans. i have major doubts.

tayto lover

kippy wrote: »

Another poster who thinks the Public service dont pay income tax.
It's catching.

Exactly the opposite of what I said. Read it again.

tayto lover

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

Dream on. The last time they cut the PS they were hammered in the next election. One thing FF does is learn from mistakes. No PS cuts going to happen.

kippy

tayto lover wrote: »

Exactly the opposite of what I said. Read it again.

I was refering to another post/poster - not you.

Tork

I wonder how many public servants are now at retirement age or within touching distance of it? If there's a risk of their lump sum or pension being affected, there'll be a lot of retirements.

[Deleted User]

Tork wrote: »

I wonder how many public servants are now at retirement age or within touching distance of it? If there's a risk of their lump sum or pension being affected, there'll be a lot of retirements.

there was last time.

they sort of rely upon it, therell be another set of ISERs if a recession hits

pls god ill be the right age some day for similar

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

theres pre 95, 2004 new entrants, post 2014 single scheme

im not aware of any scheme where you leave at the age youre projecting and get the pension youre looking for there

early retirement kicks off at 55 for some schemes (not sure if you qualify, doubt it) with massive discounts to the payments

the COAP does not kick in until the usual age if you are post 95

basically, get some advice on your plans. i have major doubts.

I'm 100% certain I am correct. The minimum service to qualify for a pension in the Defence Forces (on the pre-2004 contract) is 21 years.

It is payable immediately following discharge and regardless of age. Obviously subject to income tax, USC and a reduction if I hit OAP age.

[Deleted User]

ah defence forces

my bad! good luck and enjoy

Signore Fancy Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

ah defence forces

my bad! good luck and enjoy

You had me worried :pac: Thought I was going to have to work longer.

You bastard! Have a good one sheep.

barneystinson

salonfire wrote: »

the poorly paid SW clerk generally provides a good service to the public. And even with the poor pay, thousands and thousands wait on panels hoping to join.

I thought it was an established fact that, to the extent there's a pay premium it's at the lower end of the spectrum. So in absolute terms you may say a CO in SW (AKA DEASP BTW) is poorly paid, they are paid more than a private sector equivalent, apparently.

Care to square that circle for me? Or ignore if it if it's inconvenient...

mickuhaha

barneystinson wrote: »

I thought it was an established fact that, to the extent there's a pay premium it's at the lower end of the spectrum. So in absolute terms you may say a CO in SW (AKA DEASP BTW) is poorly paid, they are paid more than a private sector equivalent, apparently.

Care to square that circle for me? Or ignore if it if it's inconvenient...

Just looked it up there this is the CO pay scale below . Doesn't look like high wages to me. Seven to eight years to get to the 600 a week bracket before tax. That would be a take home pay of about 505 after deductions. The fact that they get a pay increase is a good thing. That's how you retain experienced staff in a business. It takes 18 years to get to your top pay. That's what you call the long game.
24,104 (461.96) – 25,681 (492.18) – 26,083 (499.85) – 26,864 (514.83) – 28,017 (536.93) – 29,167 (558.99) – 30,319 (581.05) – 31,157 (597.11) – 32,105 (615.29) – 33,209 (636.43) – 33,986 (651.32) – 35,078 (672.24) – 36,162 (693.04) – 37,855 (725.48) – LSI 1 39,186 (750.99) – LSI 2 39,796 (762.68)

[Deleted User]

barneystinson wrote: »

I thought it was an established fact that, to the extent there's a pay premium it's at the lower end of the spectrum. So in absolute terms you may say a CO in SW (AKA DEASP BTW) is poorly paid, they are paid more than a private sector equivalent, apparently.

Care to square that circle for me? Or ignore if it if it's inconvenient...

Of course they are paid better than the equivalent in the private sector with increments. Everyone knows that.

You think the filing clerk in the local oil company is getting paid €39,796?

My point was more towards the new entrants at the bottom of the incremental scale.

[Deleted User]

salonfire wrote: »

Of course they are paid better than the equivalent in the private sector with increments. Everyone knows that.

You think the filing clerk in the local oil company is getting paid €39,796?

My point was more towards the new entrants at the bottom of the incremental scale.

After 18 years with the same company more than likely or they aren't going to stay for that length of time.

[Deleted User]

DubInMeath wrote: »

After 18 years with the same company more than likely or they aren't going to stay for that length of time.

Nope.

Increments are not a thing in SMEs, so if the salary is €26,000, that's the way it stays.

There may be the odd cost of living increase across the board every few years or so.

kippy

salonfire wrote: »

Nope.

Increments are not a thing in SMEs, so if the salary is €26,000, that's the way it stays.

There may be the odd cost of living increase across the board every few years or so.

So there's no salary negotiation annually or every few years? Must be hard hold onto people.

[Deleted User]

kippy wrote: »

So there's no salary negotiation annually or every few years? Must be hard hold onto people.

For low skilled work like clerks, that anyone can do, I would say no.

tigger123

Just for info, there are other organisations that do increments, such as banks and building society's. It's not exclusive to the public sector.

Edit; a lot of NGOs do increments also.

barneystinson

mickuhaha wrote: »

Just looked it up there this is the CO pay scale below . Doesn't look like high wages to me. Seven to eight years to get to the 600 a week bracket before tax. That would be a take home pay of about 505 after deductions. The fact that they get a pay increase is a good thing. That's how you retain experienced staff in a business. It takes 18 years to get to your top pay. That's what you call the long game.
24,104 (461.96) – 25,681 (492.18) – 26,083 (499.85) – 26,864 (514.83) – 28,017 (536.93) – 29,167 (558.99) – 30,319 (581.05) – 31,157 (597.11) – 32,105 (615.29) – 33,209 (636.43) – 33,986 (651.32) – 35,078 (672.24) – 36,162 (693.04) – 37,855 (725.48) – LSI 1 39,186 (750.99) – LSI 2 39,796 (762.68)

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not suggesting that the pay is high, in absolute terms. I am simply referring to the fact that numerous reports have identified that the pay premium is highest at the lower paid end of the spectrum, i.e. the pay is high relative to private sector pay for equivalent roles.

[Deleted User]

salonfire wrote: »

Nope.

Increments are not a thing in SMEs, so if the salary is €26,000, that's the way it stays.

There may be the odd cost of living increase across the board every few years or so.

So at 26,000 they are being paid more than a CO for two years, but according to you they won't get any pay increases.

I've never worked in a job where I didn't get an increase every year, and that included the time spent doing security where I could earn off the books if I wanted.

daithi7

kippy wrote: »

I was refering to another post/poster - not you.

You're wrong there also, I explicitly stated PS earners pay income taxes, & would also benefit from overdue income tax cuts (rather than just increasing pay for PS workers).

You're having a shocker , aren't you!?

Geuze

barneystinson wrote: »

I thought it was an established fact that, to the extent there's a pay premium it's at the lower end of the spectrum. So in absolute terms you may say a CO in SW (AKA DEASP BTW) is poorly paid, they are paid more than a private sector equivalent, apparently.

I think it's fair to say the top of the CO scale is above similar private sector norms.

That is probably a reflection of a host of factors:

unionisation
progression/promotion norms
etc.

Ninthlife

People here stating COs is low paid inskilled work really havent a clue about the work that some COs do.

Become a CO in Revenue and see the amount of information you are required to know. Some COs I know would have better knowledge than grades way above them.

Sultan of Bling

Ninthlife wrote:

Become a CO in Revenue and see the amount of information you are required to know. Some COs I know would have better knowledge than grades way above them.

To be fair you could say that about any job in both sectors.

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

Oddly enough, not the case with the PS.

The well paid can sometimes be terrible, like the corrupt Gardai, teachers that shouldn't be in a classroom,etc.

While the poorly paid SW clerk generally provides a good service to the public. And even with the poor pay, thousands and thousands wait on panels hoping to join.

"While the poorly paid SW clerk generally provides a good service to the public. "

Says who?
Says you?
You must be rubbing your hands with miserly glee thinking of all those poorly paid public service lower grade workers putting in good service :pac:

Why is it the case that during recessions the demand for teaching courses and public sector positions skyrocket?
If they are always well paid them why isn't the demand always there?

"While the poorly paid SW clerk generally provides a good service to the public. "

So yould be against any cuts for them?

Exactly at What Salary point do you think cuts should be made?
30k
40k
50k
60k

Ninthlife

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

To be fair you could say that about any job in both sectors.

I wouldnt dispute that at all but some on here consistently think that a CO is unskilled and as such does not deserve the renumeration given without ever contemplating or even knowing a fraction of what COs can be tasked with

[Deleted User]

the gig varies from co to co job, and in particular from dept to dept

theres co jobs out there that would command fair salaries of 35k starting off in the private sector, and increments wouldnt come into it because three years in youd be leaving for a 50k job based on your experience

but the system has too much demand for "co" roles to handle too much subtlety in this regard.

as a manager, you end up doing what you would anywhere.

your best co, the brightest ones on their way somewhere, throw the hard stuff at them and coach them to ao (they all have degrees these days, thats been the norm since the mid 00's id say) and away they go.

those lot are underpaid at the first several points on the co scale and once they make ao they will be underpaid for the work they do until they get into the halfway points there, is my observations about most of them

a bad co is worth nothing, i wont pretend not to have ever had to manage those either!

cue a few barrages from the usuals, but the point im making is that hiring twenty odd thousand under a simple "clerical grade" designation at twenty grand a pop starting off in no way conveys the range and complexity of the tasks that might be required.

im sure the detail will be wasted, but i enjoyed typing it out anyways

NovemberWren

salonfire wrote: »

Nope.

Increments are not a thing in SMEs, so if the salary is €26,000, that's the way it stays.

There may be the odd cost of living increase across the board every few years or so.

the odd thing is the non-information given to people by local authority clerks, admin. etc. Everything is [maybe] put in a skimpy comment to some different department, i.e., never answered.

Are they really mainly there, just as a certain vote bloc ?
Yet, they grip on to a myriad of rules.

the best web is: www.Forsa.ie membership benefits pay scales.

of Local Govt. they seem well remunerated; considering everything that they simply Do Not Do.

Geuze

2019 Earnings data released today by the CSO.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2019/

Average earnings have now passed 40k, up 3.6%.

For FT workers, it's 49k.

mickuhaha

Geuze wrote: »

2019 Earnings data released today by the CSO.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elca/earningsandlabourcostsannualdata2019/

Average earnings have now passed 40k, up 3.6%.

For FT workers, it's 49k.

Thanks Geuze.

So this would mean that the Clerical grade will never reach the average earnings never mind the average for full time works and Executive Officer grade takes 7/8 years to get to average earnings and I think it's 16 years to get to average full time earnings. Who is earning all the wonderful money in the civil service. Is it specialist grades?