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Public service pay cut?

[Deleted User]

Will, there be public service pay cuts and cuts to services themselves after COVID 19? interesting discussion on RTE 1 radio about this, on the other hand, the likes of David McWilliams take a different view on how we can pay for this.

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kippy

tayto lover wrote: »

The PS have been paying those taxes too as well as the pay cut. Double whammy.

Another poster who thinks the Public service dont pay income tax.
It's catching.

daithi7

tayto lover wrote: »

The PS have been paying those taxes too as well as the pay cut. Double whammy.

Nope. The government have a clear choice each budget to either reduce (penal) income taxes for all (which will also increase ps take home pay btw), OR to increase public sector pay. They have been opting to solely do the latter, robbing them of the opportunity to do anything about the former. Therefore already over taxed paye workers are effectively funding PS pay rises, by not receiving their due share of tax reductions
I.e. their 'tax restoration' due.

That is effectively what is happening, to try to dress it up as anything else, is just PS myopia imho.

kippy

daithi7 wrote: »

Nope. The government have a clear choice each budget to either reduce (penal) taxes for all (which will also increase s take home pay) OR to just increase public sector pay. They have been opting to do solely do the latter robbing them the opportunity to do anything about the former. Therefore over taxed workers are effectively funding PS pay rises by not receiving their due tax reductions
I.e. their 'tax restoration' due.

That is effectively what is happening, to try to dress it up as anything else is just PS myopia imho.

They've not "soley being doing the later".

coolshannagh28

daithi7 wrote: »

Nope. The government have a clear choice each budget to either reduce (penal) taxes for all (which will also increase s take home pay) OR to just increase public sector pay. They have been opting to do solely do the latter robbing them the opportunity to do anything about the former. Therefore over taxed workers are effectively funding PS pay rises by not receiving their due tax reductions
I.e. their 'tax restoration' due.

That is effectively what is happening, to try to dress it up as anything else is just PS myopia imho.

Is there an argument to be made that politicians should be benchmarked in some way against the Private sector even if it meant paying them more as a means of evening up the imbalance in remuneration between the different sectors of the economy ?

daithi7

never_mind wrote: »

I love the general discourse that PS workers are lazy, inefficient paper-pushers in this thread.

Public service workers include doctors, judges, firemen, teachers, lecturers, guards etc. Not all PS workers are admin workers and those that are are doing a service to the state (revenue, social protection, county councils etc.). I thought covid would have given people the opportunity to reflect on its importance and try to support not demonise it.

Absenteeism among ps workers is higher than the private sector. Hours worked per week are significantly lower. Sick leave is far higher and annual leave is also.

It's fine to moan about perceptions of PS workers, and of course there are huge cohorts of the PS that are undoubtedly very hard working , but nonetheless overall by most productivity measures they trail the private sector by some margin.

Treppen

daithi7 wrote: »

You mean "Pay restoration" back up to the unsustainable Celtic Tiger levels is it? The ones that could only be funded by one off, unsustainable, property taxes.... tell me, how did that work out again?!?

P.s. isn't it curious that we're being strong armed into 'restoring' PS pay (i.e. increasing it to previously unsustainable levels), while income taxes have not nearly been restored back down to Celtic Tiger levels (e.g. we're stuck with USC, & higher levels of income tax, etc).

So one group of workers are quite clearly receiving preferential treatment, to the cost of others, that's unfair .......

If that's the only dichotomy you see then you're very bitter.
BTW public sector workers also help keep private sector in employment.
If you cut public sector workers wages to just low discretionary spending level who do you think will be hit hardest?
By all the money being saved by cuts, you actually think the government are going to start giving tlservice industry workers, builders, car sales employees etc. free money?
If there's none there to buy their services then they loose even more.

Treppen

daithi7 wrote: »

Absenteeism among ps workers is higher than the private sector. Hours worked per week are significantly lower. Sick leave is far higher and annual leave is also.

It's fine to moan about perceptions of PS workers, and of course there are huge cohorts of the PS that are undoubtedly very hard working , but nonetheless overall by most productivity measures they trail the private sector by some margin.

Have you a source for all that rant

Hotblack Desiato

mickuhaha wrote: »

@daithi7

I don't think you get it. The average wage surpassed the highest average wage during the Celtic tiger in 2014 and has been above that since.

Cost of living, too - especially for those paying rent.

But that's the fault of the private sector.

ninebeanrows

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

the_syco

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Well if they clamped down on expenses I would not see a need for pay cuts.

Lets cut the dole for anyone on it for more than ten years.

TheDavester

the_syco wrote: »

Lets cut the dole for anyone on it for more than 2years.

fyp

Grueller

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

Do you honestly believe that or are you trolling?

TheDavester

Grueller wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that or are you trolling?

its the mirror but googled this from a few days ago

"That's the way it would work out and that's important in terms of the cohesion, durability and solidity of the government to get decisions.

"These decisions we take now and in the next year, will have to sustain over the next four to five years."

He also stressed that he had improved his relationship with incumbent Taoiseach Leo Varadkar over the recent weeks of negotiations.

Martin denied the property tax will increase and revealed the existing public service pay agreement would be honoured.

"We do need a solid, strong, effective public service in any democracy. The current agreement will be fulfilled.

"However, we will seek to negotiate a new agreement but that will be of course, in the context of very very challenging economic figures", he told host Ivan Yates.

"The number one priority facing the country from now on has to be the restoration of jobs and helping people in the private sector to get back to work."

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/micheal-martin-tonightshow-virgin-media-22210361

gmisk

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

Complete and utter BS, where are you getting that from?

Not a chance he would do that....especially with his own party on 14 percent lol.

Tork

I can see a pay cut happening in some form or another but not 20%. A cut that drastic will take a lot of spending out of the economy.

TheDavester

gmisk wrote: »

Complete and utter BS, where are you getting that from?

Not a chance he would do that....especially with his own party on 14 percent lol.

it would irk me to take a cut as someone who still had to go in everyday earning only 60 quid more than those who got the covid payment ....should they go after the companies who availed of it (particularly the larger companies - ikea are proposing to give back the state aid) and take the money Apple owe

TheDavester

Tork wrote: »

I can see a pay cut happening in some form or another but not 20%. A cut that drastic will take a lot of spending out of the economy.

i wouldn't object to sticking with the current deal and deferring going to the negotiation table ....id guess a freeze on hiring as well will occur..

Hotblack Desiato

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

All will be out on strike if that's even proposed never mind happens.

And a 20% paycut means I can't pay my state-owned bank's mortgage any more. Talk about an own goal.

Ninthlife

If there is a 20% cut to PS they can increase the lower rate band to 30% and 50% on the higher rate for all non PS workers

Get rid of tax credit for self employed

We're all in this together............right

[Deleted User]

any private company that took the covid payment should see extra tax imposed on its employees until its paid back in full including interest.

im not paying taxes towards that

Sierra Oscar

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

All will be out on strike if that's even proposed never mind happens.

And a 20% paycut means I can't pay my state-owned bank's mortgage any more. Talk about an own goal.

Micheal Martin has committed to increasing pay in line with the current pay agreement. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Signore Fancy Pants

Im a Public Sector scumbag :pac:

In the last 12 years, with promotions and pay restoration I am €45 better off a week versus my pay in 2008.

I plan on retiring at 25 years service when I am 43/44. That should give me a pension of about €17,000ish a year with a lump sum payment of just over €30,000.

I intend to secure private sector employment before leaving, the pension wont fully cover the bills but it sure is better than nothing.

Although depending on future PS pay cuts, I will probably exit earlier and get on the private sector gravy train.

[Deleted User]

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

All will be out on strike if that's even proposed never mind happens.

And a 20% paycut means I can't pay my state-owned bank's mortgage any more. Talk about an own goal.

They strike anyway, even when not treated unfairly. See the nurses, guards, teachers in recent years.

While a 20pct cut would be unfair, threatening strike is nothing out of the ordinary.

About time their strikes were broken anyway. We don't allow monopolies in food, transport, technology, etc so why should we tolerate this group disruption and withholding of services to society.

kippy

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Im a Public Sector scumbag :pac:

In the last 12 years, with promotions and pay restoration I am €45 better off a week versus my pay in 2008.

I plan on retiring at 25 years service when I am 43/44. That should give me a pension of about €17,000ish a year with a lump sum payment of just over €30,000.

I intend to secure private sector employment before leaving, the pension wont fully cover the bills but it sure is better than nothing.

Although depending on future PS pay cuts, I will probably exit earlier and get on the private sector gravy train.

You are aware that you cannot claim the pension till into your 65 ish (generally) - and that the majority of that 17K is made up of the COAP (roughly 13K at todays rates)

chrisd2019

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Micheal Martin first big announcement as Taoiseach will be a 20% PS paycut

I hope you have not visited Paddy Power's and put your pension pot on that prediction!

For one thing Micheal Martin's full political career has been based on avoiding big announcements. The indoor smoking ban was not his idea either if you recalling that as a big announcement. He plagiarized it from elsewhere.

Also a lot of skittles still on the edge of the cliff and wobbling in the wind, he could still be the FF leader that never was Taoiseach.

Tork

Everyone went out on strike last time (2009, I think) and it made no difference. The pay cuts went ahead anyway.

chrisd2019

Tork wrote: »

Everyone went out on strike last time (2009, I think) and it made no difference. The pay cuts went ahead anyway.

For 2-3 days, organised by the fat cat beards in suits to keep the ground troops occupied while they themselves ate the rich food at the board of directors table associated with their appointments to state boards.:)

Signore Fancy Pants

kippy wrote: »

You are aware that you cannot claim the pension till into your 65 ish (generally) - and that the majority of that 17K is made up of the COAP (roughly 13K at todays rates)

Yeah I'm on a pre-2000 contract so will get the PS pension within a few months of retirement.

Im not fully au fait with this pension lark but will be before I go. Although, you may know more about it than me at this stage.

kippy

Tork wrote: »

Everyone went out on strike last time (2009, I think) and it made no difference. The pay cuts went ahead anyway.

It made a difference alright.

Treppen

salonfire wrote: »

They strike anyway, even when not treated unfairly. See the nurses, guards, teachers in recent years.

While a 20pct cut would be unfair, threatening strike is nothing out of the ordinary.

About time their strikes were broken anyway. We don't allow monopolies in food, transport, technology, etc so why should we tolerate this group disruption and withholding of services to society.

Cos if you pay $hit you get $hit