Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

SeanW wrote: »

BOOM! 6 minutes that must a personal record for near-immediate deflection :rolleyes:

It's a fair question though, about the 'bad name' thing often thrown at cyclists.

It's a fairly nonsensical idea, that there is some kind of collective responsibility for groups of road users, depending on their mode of travel. So the rhetorical question is simply designed to point out the ridiculous nature of the original suggestion.

SeanW wrote: »

Pedestrians in our major cities learn early that they'll have to negotiate with two-wheeled lawbreakers. That's why you don't have more death and injury. We are usually able to avoid you. That doesn't make cyclists paragons of virtue. Just two-wheeled hypocrisy.

How come pedestrians don't learn to avoid the motorist that kill nearly one pedestrian each week here in Ireland? Surely that would be the more important skill, from an evolutionary point of view?

SeanW wrote: »

At among the lowest rates of any country in the world. Ireland is comfortably in the bottom 20 for road fatalities by every relative measure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

If Irish drivers were uniquely horrible and deserving of all the opprobrium, our road fatality statistics would bear that out. They don't.

Neither do, by far, the vast, vast, majority of motorists. But hey, keep up the hypocrisy.

Ah, the Single Transferable Strawman argument. No-one has suggested that Irish drivers are uniquely horrible.

It's just that other people seem to be more ambitious than you. Other people see the relatively poor efforts we take to address the issues that lead to 2 or 3 people being killed on the roads every week.

We can do better.

SeanW wrote: »

Where is this Trump school of statistics?

Do they teach students how Irish road fatality figures are among the lowest in the world, provably so, by every relative measure?

The Trumpian approach is the introduction of the international comparison, when it's not really relevant. All it shows it that no other country has bothered to really get to grips with this issue.

The fact remains that Irish motorists are killing 2 or 3 people each week in mostly avoidable deaths.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

And pedestrians. And other cyclists. But whatevs, you've already said you pretty much don't care about the law being broken as long as nobody is killed, so that's grand, eh.

Don't forget those seriously injured by motorists as well as those killed.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

They are ****ing dangerous! Sure, there's only been two fatalities for pedestrians in the last few years caused by cyclists, but there have been plenty of near misses as well as actual impacts and collisions. People have mentioned them on this thread. Do they get reported, even by the person hit? No!

The bottom line is it's inconsiderate, dangerous, and illegal.

Nobody here is really complaining about kids on the path or someone on a commute using a footpath by a stretch of dangerous road.

Most of us who are complaining are doing so about the habitual footpath-cyclists who are doing so cos it's more convenient than finding an alternate to the one-way street, they're lazy, or in a hurry to make their next pickup/delivery, or "sure the pedestrians will get out of my way."

If someone has any kind of serious injury, then yes, it is recorded by the doctor treating the injury. If they're not treated by a doctor, then it's not a very serious injury. There have been various research papers over the years looking at such records, and none of them showed that injuries caused by cyclists were of enough significance to merit even a category of their own.

TaurenDruid wrote: »

There are decent cyclists and I'm all for decent, segregated cycling infrastructure, but your consistent defence and excusing of footpath cycling in all circumstances really paints you, and by extension the cycling lobby, in a really bad light. Cop on.

Does Sean's consistent excusing of drivers breaking speed limits in all circumstances paint him, and by extension the motoring lobby, in a really bad light? Does Sean need to cop on?

Spook_ie wrote: »

We all know exactly what you said, it's there for the record. So are you saying you meant something different to what you typed?

I said nothing about it being like winning a prize

ewc78

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Got to laugh at the posters on here that get so triggered by cyclists and can't imagine life outside the tin can. Try it yourself. Get a bike. Get a bike for the other half. Bring the kids along. Enjoy.

I cycled everywhere as a kid.Bought a bike in Halfords a few years ago, a Carrera something or other thinking I might take it up again. It's an ok activity but I wouldn't get even near the same buzz from it that I get from running. There is no comparison for me.
Only time I use the bike now is on a turbo for a bit of cross training.
Each to their own I say. Find what you like and do that.

Spook_ie wrote: »

Being killed being equivalent to winning the jackpot, being injured equivalent to a lesser win, nice to know how you rate injuries caused by cyclists, what prize level is a broken bone, bruising or lacerations, perhaps a near miss will count as a free ticket to the next draw.

Are you actually suggesting that cyclists are causing broken bones, bruising and lacerations on a routine basis in Ireland?

Because if you are, you'd really need to produce some evidence. You know broken bones get treated in hospitals, who record every case, in a fair degree of detail? So please do show the evidence.

SeanW wrote: »

This may come as a shock but most of us do actually spend time outside our "tin can" cars. Most of us are also routine pedestrians. As pedestrians on the streets/footpaths, we have get the F@#% out of your way, or else. Online, we have to read to heaps of bile and opprobrium for having the temerity to drive a car. While simultaneously dodging responsibility for menacing pedestrians at junctions and on footpaths.

This may come as a shock, but most 'us' do actually spend time inside of our tin can cars, AND on our bikes AND as pedestrians.

As pedestrians on the streets/footpaths, we DON'T have the get the F@#% out of your way, or else, certainly not routinely. We MAY have had this once or twice in our lives, or maybe once or twice a year - but we know that your descriptions of pedestrians being terrorised and menaced by cyclists are hyperbolic nonsense.

SeanW wrote: »

Where should I start?

Maybe it could be that every time a pedestrian has come onto this thread to share their experiences dealing with cyclists, one of you has almost immediately jumped down their throat with: BuT MoToRiStS AnD MuH SpEeD LiMiTs!!!! In a recent case, it took Andy only 6 minutes to jump down a pedestrians' throat with his usual whataboutery. Beyond that, it's 3 things:

So just to be clear, the data behind the "BuT MoToRiStS" is absolutely clear and indisputable. BuT MoToRiStS DO kill 2 or 3 people each week on Irish roads. That's a fact.

That the bile and opprobrium is not just unwarranted, according to the evidence, but that the data pretty conclusively refutes the bullcrap emanating from Andy and his circlejerk.

Eh no, it doesn't. Nothing you've presented refutes the horrific reality that Irish drivers are killing 2 or 3 people each week on Irish roads.

Your international comparison is interesting as an international comparison. But it doesn't change the underlying facts.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]That a pedestrian cannot even share stories of things that MOTORISTS do that threaten pedestrians - if they don't involve speed - because these things contradict the facile, single-minded narrative of "BUT MOTORISTS ARE KILLING EVERYBODY BY PLAYING ZOOM ZOOM!"

[*]The fact that the people talking trash about Irish motorists and accusing people of lawbreaking are singularly, and in the most spectacular fashion imaginable, wholly and completely unqualified to accuse ANYONE of lawbreaking. Seriously, the absolute hypocrisy of an Irish cyclist accusing anyone of lawbreaking is mind-blowingly spectacular.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]That a pedestrian cannot even share stories of things that MOTORISTS do that threaten pedestrians - if they don't involve speed - because these things contradict the facile, single-minded narrative of "BUT MOTORISTS ARE KILLING EVERYBODY BY PLAYING ZOOM ZOOM!"

That's untrue. Pedestrians can share their stories. Pedestrians HAVE shared their stories. Their stories stand.

Some people have added additional views, and their own comments - but no-one has a monopoly of experience here.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]The fact that the people talking trash about Irish motorists and accusing people of lawbreaking are singularly, and in the most spectacular fashion imaginable, wholly and completely unqualified to accuse ANYONE of lawbreaking. Seriously, the absolute hypocrisy of an Irish cyclist accusing anyone of lawbreaking is mind-blowingly spectacular.
[/LIST]

There is no 'accusation of lawbreaking'. Noting of the findings of the RSA Speed Survey is not an accusation. It is a research finding - that Irish drivers routinely break speed limits, and in particular, that 98% of Irish drivers break urban speed limits.

But again, you seem to have played this collective responsibility game - that because some cyclists routinely break traffic laws, that therefore, ALL cyclists are silenced for eternity in saying anything to you that challenges your world view.

Well, sorry - but that's not how the world works. The facts about the dangers of Irish drivers are indisputable.

Can I again ask you to come back on the questions you've been avoiding please?

Can you give any specific examples of those 'unavoidable road deaths' that apparently underpin your position?

Can you please answer the question about whether cyclist on pavements have intent to menace and terrorise pedestrians?

magicbastarder

SeanW wrote: »

Seriously, the absolute hypocrisy of an Irish cyclist accusing anyone of lawbreaking is mind-blowingly spectacular.

you really have it in for cyclists, the above statement is verging on pathological.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I said nothing about it being like winning a prize

What is the lottery about then, If it's not to try win something? Perhaps you meant they were supporting good causes then.

Phil.x

Can mods please close this thread are it's gone total garbage.

Spook_ie wrote: »

What is the lottery about then, If it's not to try win something? Perhaps you meant they were supporting good causes then.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Well good news so you've about as much chance of winning the lotto as being injured by a cyclist

Clearly my post is about the chance

magicbastarder

Phil.x wrote: »

Can mods please close this thread are it's gone total garbage.

gone?
it was garbage from the very first post.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you actually suggesting that cyclists are causing broken bones, bruising and lacerations on a routine basis in Ireland?

Because if you are, you'd really need to produce some evidence. You know broken bones get treated in hospitals, who record every case, in a fair degree of detail? So please do show the evidence.

You're assuming that HIPE , LA16 and PC16 forms are correctly filled in and collated. For people to state that cyclists do not kill or injure pedestrians is a stretch too far of any but the most blinkered and biased posters on Boards.ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

You're assuming that HIPE , LA16 and PC16 forms are correctly filled in and collated. For people to state that cyclists do not kill or injure pedestrians is a stretch too far of any but the most blinkered and biased posters on Boards.ie

And of course you'll now link to a poster who said this?

Charles Babbage

magicbastarder wrote: »

gone?
it was garbage from the very first post.

No, it was a useful thread about an aspect of anti-social behaviour that was not being addressed. It was successfully derailed by whataboutery which implied that this particular anti-social behaviour should not be addressed because there also exists other anti-social behaviour. Mnay people seem to believe that they are entitled to their particular preference of anti-social behaviour because other people get away with things. But an eye for an eye makes us all blind.

I'd suggest a new thread which is confined to the matter at hand and not diluted by discussion of all the ills in society.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Clearly my post is about the chance

Ah so now we're comparing the chance of being injured by a cyclist to winning the lottery, so which prize level are you comparing it to?

The odds of winning any prize are 29:1 the odds of winning he jackpot are 10,737,573:1, so are you saying that for every 29 cyclist pedestrian collisions there 1 chance of being injured or the 10million plus chance.

You said it so I assume you must have some kind of figure in mind?

Spook_ie wrote: »

Ah so now we're comparing the chance of being injured by a cyclist to winning the lottery, so which prize level are you comparing it to?

The odds of winning any prize are 29:1 the odds of winning he jackpot are 10,737,573:1, so are you saying that for every 29 cyclist pedestrian collisions there 1 chance of being injured or the 10million plus chance.

You said it so I assume you must have some kind of figure in mind?

The 10 million

magicbastarder

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, it was a useful thread about an aspect of anti-social behaviour that was not being addressed.

you *did* see the first post? this thread never stood a chance.

micar

Charles Babbage wrote: »

it as a useful thread about an aspect of anti-social behaviour that was not being addressed.

The next time you see a child cycling on the footpath mention that to them.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do the 98% of drivers that break urban speed limits give the other 2% of good drivers a bad name too?

What are you talking about? Drivers break speed limits (I don't) so I should be ok with cyclists cycling dangerously on foot paths?

Get a life.
.

Stark

ecoli3136 wrote: »

What are you talking about? Drivers break speed limits (I don't) so I should be ok with cyclists cycling dangerously on foot paths?

Get a life.
.

He's referring to the "gives all cyclists a bad name" nonsense that's frequently trotted out.

micar wrote: »

You live in a nice part of Dublin......lucky you......but what relevance is that. Perhaps the people cycling (majority would be kids) should be driven/driving around in their Ranges Rovers or their Audi Q7 or their Volvo XC90.......only peasants should be cycling.

What do you define as a "decent clip" .... have never seen anyone cycle 20km + per hour on a footpath.

You're saying that there are more cyclists on the footpath than on the road........well, that nonsense for a start.

"a symptom of widespread deterioration in manners and decent behaviour" .......ffs

Took the dogs for a walk last night.... live beside a cemetery and today is supposed to be the blessings the graves, that's off due to covid but people are still attending to the graves .........one motorist parked their car on the footpath, on a double yellow line and opposite a continuous white line. All despite a car park with spaces available at the other end of the cemetery

Would you call that a lack of "manners and decent behaviour" ?

It's extraordinary how triggered you are by me complaining about something that happens a lot, but shouldn't happen a lot.

07Lapierre

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Drivers break speed limits (I don't)
.

Ah now! Not even once? C.mon, you can tell us. What about the time you did 31kph in a 30 zone?

You really think that in 10 million cyclist pedestrian collisions only 1 will be injured.

Must tell that to the family of the guy killed in January, or the girl hospitalised with head trauma in Ranelagh in 2018 and that's just the injuries that hit the news recently.

07Lapierre wrote: »

Ah now! Not even once? C.mon, you can tell us. What about the time you did 31kph in a 30 zone?

You don't have to believe me, but I don't break speed limits.

I accept most drivers do.

Again, why do you feel the need to defend cyclists using footpaths in a way they shouldn't? It's bizarre.

Spook_ie wrote: »

You really think that in 10 million cyclist pedestrian collisions only 1 will be injured.

Must tell that to the family of the guy killed in January, or the girl hospitalised with head trauma in Ranelagh in 2018 and that's just the injuries that hit the news recently.

No I said you've more chance of winning the lotto than being injured by a cyclist. I didn't think it was a complex concept. But by god you've certainly managed mangle it.

07Lapierre

ecoli3136 wrote: »

You don't have to believe me, but I don't break sored limits.

I acceptx most drivers do.

Again, why do you feel the need to defend cyclists using footpaths in a way they shouldn't? It's bizarre.

I have never defended cycling on the footpath, it's illegal.