Brendan Bendar wrote: » Heh heh...Francie....if you think I give a flying fuhherke about what you think, you are delusioned. Gimps locked into cemented cavedweller ideals along the ‘bawder’ have no influence on me . Hope that doesn’t offend you, dude. And your’e not a “big lad” in my books, pal, just another tool battering out SF rhetoric which hasn’t a chance in hell of keeping this country viable. Hope that helps:cool:
downcow wrote: » I would be totally up for a sporting anthem for NI and I see no reason why not a flag as well. It would scare the bejesus out of you Francie if there was an agreed anything in NI
FrancieBrady wrote: » So just invective...nothing positive to add to the discussion. Ok.
Brendan Bendar wrote: » Just the truth, buddy. Have you a difficulty with that Francie?
BonnieSituation wrote: » Copying Libya now? ..
Yeah_Right wrote: » Surely you can understand why a Shinner would like to copy Ghadaffi's Libya. Apart from the obvious terrorism links, all elections were won with a 99.9% majority. That's the sort of democracy Shinners believe in.
downcow wrote: » That’s very hurtful for those that supported 40 years of sectarian murder and ended up having to watch their leaders take up post in uk administration at Stormont between visiting their holiday homes and (I’ll not say it)
jm08 wrote: » And the people of this island could have been spared all of that if unionists would only have agreed to the Sunningdale Agreement which would have brought moderate nationalists into the Stormont Government in 1973. Do you ever wish that unionists had supported the Sunningdale Agreement and civil rights for catholics DC? (and if not that, the Anglo Irish Agreement)?
FrancieBrady wrote: » There's loads of agreed stuff in NI. The GFA was agreed by the majority. Normality about the flying flags was 'agreed' by the majority. Equality was agreed by the majority but opposed by those who have the ability to abuse a mechanism called the Petition of Concern. Nothing scary about it downcow. Any thoughts on a flag for a UI, even though we know you think it is hypothetical ...all the more reason for you to let your imagination run. Any thoughts for a flag for the current NI...which isn't hypothetical.
downcow wrote: » I love the white Ulster flag. But I’m not wed to it and would be very accommodating of something that the nationalist community drove. I’d want them to be most comfortable with it. What about the st Patrick’s cross on a green background with a red hand?
downcow wrote: » Well, before you get too high and mighty, I think you should read back through the posts and you will find that this discussion WAS about the issues with the IRFU flag and anthem. I have no problem with you discussing creating a flag and anthem for a hypothetical country that you think may exist some day. But I prefer you did not duck the original issue by trying to portray me as twisting
downcow wrote: » You are sectarianising civil rights. Don’t think the organisers would agree with you. You and paisley would have agreed though
RobMc59 wrote: » Have you got a link to this poll Tom?
jm08 wrote: » Can you explain why we don't see any of the rugby flags being used by people at games if its so ideal? Why do people bring the tricolour? The Irish soccer team doesn't have a shamrock and they are probably the only team that is not an all Ireland team here. Three colours maybe - but it gets more expensive the more colours you have. For instance, the cost of the rugby flag is 4 times that for what a tricolour is of the same size. There also doesn't seem to be any rugby flags available in small sizes! As for the crest on flags - Germany has a crest (black) which is on their jerseys, but not on their everyday flag which is just the black, red and yellow. France & Italy do something similar, with their flags being simply colour strips.
jm08 wrote: » And about the only flag anyone would recognise in that lot is South Africa - certainly none of them would be instantly recognisable. This does not get away from the fact that the most distinctive flags are simple and rely on strong colours to be readily identifiable.
jm08 wrote: » Well, the civil rights demands were for catholics from protestants, the ruling class, so they were sectarian. Now, just answer whether you would have supported the Sunningdale Agreement or not?
jm08 wrote: » I don't buy flags! On the same site, I compared the price of the rugby flag and the tricolour. €5 for Tricolour, €21 for rugby flag. FAI has a stylised football, not a shamrock (they changed logo in 90s). The IFA have 4 tiny yellow shamrocks in their crest!
Junkyard Tom wrote: » I read it on Twitter this morning but am having trouble finding the actual post but I think it was referring to this survey:https://twitter.com/PhilipMcGarry4/status/1273278921765785600?s=20 Before you come back and say 'BUT, HAHA, LOL, Nationalists only 23%' it's the non-aligned people who will decide whether a Pro UI vote carries or not. Britain's troubled union is straining at the seams as it is. Scotland is very valuable to England/London and provides all-island integrity. The north of Ireland is nothing but a burden and continues to be.
downcow wrote: » Well we were told they were not supposed to be sectarian. But anyhow you may well be correct. I feel there is no way a unionist could ever accept sunningdale which would have establishEd a Council of Ireland with executive powers, the beginnings of unifying Ireland. A slippery slope. The gfa is the opposite. A clear acceptance from everyone that ni is an integral part of the uk and can only change with the agreement of the people of NI. This is why I believe the gfa is tantamount to a surrender by the Ira. Sunningdale would have clearly been a defeat/surrender by unionists
FrancieBrady wrote: » Sunningdale was never going to succeed and had no involvement from SF and indeed the IRA. Even though it was a 'nationalist' settlement it had weak nationalists negotiating it - the SDLP. Other than showing the world who the real belligerents were, Sunningdale is not much of pivot point. Accepting equality and self determination and the tacit withdrawal by Britain was enough to get the agreement of nationalists in the GFA. Thinking they had secured the Union was enough for Unionists. Genius really from Hume Adams, Trimble etc. Belligerent Unionists hated that about the GFA and still do.
jm08 wrote: » I don't buy flags! On the same site, I compared the price of the rugby flag and the tricolour. €5 for Tricolour, €21 for rugby flag.
FAI has a stylised football, not a shamrock (they changed logo in 90s).
The IFA have 4 tiny yellow shamrocks in their crest!
downcow wrote: » The genius of it is that people like you accept it and publicly pretend you think it’s wonderful.
FrancieBrady wrote: » People like 'me' haven't had to protest a single advance since it was signed downcow. Belligerent Unionists have been kicking and screaming and 'Never Never Never ah well shure go on'ing' since. Parades, flegs, rights, border in the Irish Sea etc etc etc. Victory? Not rubbing it in, but come on...you lost the goose not just the egg.
downcow wrote: » That’s the genius of it. Ira/sf Sit in a uk devolved administration Ira/sf Accept that NI is fully in UK until we decide we want to leave (that’s all unionists ever asked for or wanted) Union flag remains official flag of country Granted the prisoners got out and Gerry etc got rich, and agent Martin etc didn’t get his cover blown and died a hero Ruc change their name and tweak a few things around the edges Unionists in areas like mine are finally getting left alone to live their lives with only sporadic sectarian stuff Ira/sf have to continue to pretend gfa is working for them Unionists have nothing to make a noise over except things like the union flag is not flying quite enough days on city hall. Haha Pure genius If calsberg done peace agreements.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Funny attempt to wind up and taunt. I couldn't care less if you think the IRA actually waved a white flag and genuflect every day in front of a picture of the queen. The IRA are gone...done and dusted. I'm more interested in the reality though. For instance was Jim Molyneaux right when he said that the Peace Process and the GFA was 'the worst thing that ever happened to us' (Unionism)? I think when you look at where the process has taken Unionism, from parades, to flegs, to having to accept equality for every one and respect for everyone it has to be 'the worst thing that ever happened them'. On the constitutional issue, they have been, diverged away from the union slowly but surely and integrated more and more into the workings of the south. Pilloried by the people of Britain when they took the bait from the Tories again they have now lost the latest pitched battle and have had to accept the biggest increment in divergence yet - a border in the Irish sea. Nationalists on the other hand are watching the two parties that came out of Independence in the south, formulate plans to look at Unifying the country at a time when Irish Unity represents a huge attraction to the GB and the EU from an economic and security point of view.
downcow wrote: » That’s the genius. Republicans are now happy with what you list above. A far cry from brits out, etc. .....and you say “ I think when you look at where the process has taken Unionism, from parades, to flegs, to having to accept equality for every one and respect for everyone it has to be 'the worst thing that ever happened them'.” Surely even taking that at face value it would be a plus plus for moderate unionism. Win all the way
RobMc59 wrote: » As you've pointed out yourself,sometimes what is perceived as a disadvantage or calamity turns out to be a blessing in disguise.The GFA has been exactly that for the Union. Vague possibilities of a UI and a neutralized IRA have hamstrung republican aspirations.Adding to that,the coronavirus epidemic has highlighted to the people of NI just how much say they actually have in their own day to day lives thanks to the devolved government-its unlikely they would want to give that up to be down the pecking order with Dublin. The idyllic rose tinted republican vision of a UI is getting further away.
