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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

bilbot79

I'd be tempted to buy a little apartment in the Canaries and spend my winters there, in fact I'd probably

1/ Sell my Dublin gaff

2/ By a cheaper Irish gaff in the countryside

3/ Buy a place in the Canaries

4/ Buy another place somewhere in Europe, Hvar or somewhere like that

And just spend weeks and months in each place.

How would the rest of you exploit work from home if you had it permanently?

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[Deleted User]

lickalot wrote: »

Or Ireland.

Or the UK. Or anywhere actually

[Deleted User]

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know people who moved down the country to work from home when thier company agreed to it.
Now they are stuck with the same company. Dont get decent pay rises or bonuses. When they bring it up they are told to leave if they want.
But now that they have moved to the country there are no jobs around them, at least paying anywhere near the same.
So once they quit they will be taking a pay cut if they can get a job where they live now.
Company knows this and plays along by slowly eroding their salary and bonus.

But it works another way too.

I live and work in rural Ireland in IT.

The company I work for are a huge employer locally.

Now as an IT professional I'm getting paid a lot less than I would be if I was working for a company based in the big cities.

The company I work for know that I am tied to the area because I have chosen to settle in this area, and know that they can pay me below what I would be getting elsewhere because I can't just up and leave.

But then COVID19 happened, and remote working starts to become more prevalent.
So now as an IT professional I can reach further when it comes to employers.

Just this week I talked to an agency about a job that would require 1 day a month in Dublin, the rest remote.

So my present company have to think about how to retain good experienced IT people who now have a greater jobs market on their doorstep.

limnam

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Could be interesting if you unexpectedly don't show for work one day and aren't answering your phone, so they ask the guards to do a welfare check.

Does this happen a lot?

[Deleted User]

limnam wrote: »

Does this happen a lot?

adocholiday

I'm not sure that remote work is going to be embraced by that many companies after things go back to normal. I was in the job market very recently and I specified to each recruiter I've spoken to (applied for about 20 positions across companies of various sizes) that WFH at least 2 days per week was an absolute must and the vast majority said that the employer intended to go back to 100% office time.

Now I work in the business side of the IT sector so I expect for technical roles that will be different but I think the majority of the workforce will end up back where we were pre-Covid.

PhilOssophy

I don't know if things are going to be that radically different. Most workplaces are working on "Return to office" at the moment. It won't be 5 days for a while but I think that is where a lot of companies want to get to.
It depends on how innovative/modern the employer is and their attitude. Some employers just won't trust anybody who is not sitting at their desk. Others don't care once the work is done. The middle is probably an alright place to be.
Funny, I heard somebody who is from a very rural part, suggesting that he could move back there, buy a trophy house and an apartment or 2-bed house in his local town just to work and have as an office - they are so cheap and the broadband is good! Will be watching how he gets on!

[Deleted User]

PhilOssophy wrote: »

...................
Funny, I heard somebody who is from a very rural part, suggesting that he could move back there, buy a trophy house and an apartment or 2-bed house in his local town just to work and have as an office - they are so cheap and the broadband is good! Will be watching how he gets on!

Why would he bother?
Two houses, two sets of bills so he can rock into his apartment/office while working from home?
Seems looney really.

There's plenty very cheap properties in rural Ireland of course.

[Deleted User]

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I don't know if things are going to be that radically different. Most workplaces are working on "Return to office" at the moment. It won't be 5 days for a while but I think that is where a lot of companies want to get to.
It depends on how innovative/modern the employer is and their attitude. Some employers just won't trust anybody who is not sitting at their desk. Others don't care once the work is done. The middle is probably an alright place to be.
Funny, I heard somebody who is from a very rural part, suggesting that he could move back there, buy a trophy house and an apartment or 2-bed house in his local town just to work and have as an office - they are so cheap and the broadband is good! Will be watching how he gets on!

I'd say that will eventually be the case, depending on the type of profession.

But it may be that less people move to the cities in the first place rather than large scale movement out of the cities.

PhilOssophy

Augeo wrote: »

Why would he bother?
Two houses, two sets of bills so he can rock into his apartment/office while working from home?
Seems looney really.

There's plenty very cheap properties in rural Ireland of course.

That's why!! He probably pay little or nothing in property tax / bills in house in local town. Especially when compared to anywhere on the commuter belt.

jrosen

I believe it will vary from company to company and even within sectors of each company. Ultimately it will come down to each individual what they can negotiate.

mairtmairt

I work in finance sector was always office orientated in Dublin got sorted to with laptop to work from home. Any idea how long it will last? Im hoping the longer the better as moved out of my rented accom in Dublin. I do believe any return will be phased ie 20% etc.

jrosen

mairtmairt wrote: »

I work in finance sector was always office orientated in Dublin got sorted to with laptop to work from home. Any idea how long it will last? Im hoping the longer the better as moved out of my rented accom in Dublin. I do believe any return will be phased ie 20% etc.

Know a few in finance who are working towards a July return. What seems common from the people ive spoken too is the initial reopening will be on an invite basis. Surveys are being done to see how many want a full return, 50/50 etc.
It will be phased.
I know someone gone back full time this week to the office.

mairtmairt

Yes it will be up to each comapany we recently did that survey. Hoping to avoid having to go back to hunting for a room in Dublin as long as possible. Im also hoping there will be an increase in places available which may bring down the cost of renting however does not seem to have happened as of yet

snowgal

jrosen wrote: »

Know a few in finance who are working towards a July return. What seems common from the people ive spoken too is the initial reopening will be on an invite basis. Surveys are being done to see how many want a full return, 50/50 etc.
It will be phased.
I know someone gone back full time this week to the office.

Yea I dont know really. I think a few weeks/month back people really thought wfh would take off, me included. But I think as soon as you start phasing back in to the office, the more your there the more it just becomes the norm again. Happened where I work. We went back 3 weeks ago, everybody was on wfh, in office, day in day out scenario. Next week we're all in there for 90% of the time.....Boss is saying there are no cases in a long time now in our county and we all live within the county so no real reason to be at home.......

jrosen

snowgal wrote: »

Yea I dont know really. I think a few weeks/month back people really thought wfh would take off, me included. But I think as soon as you start phasing back in to the office, the more your there the more it just becomes the norm again. Happened where I work. We went back 3 weeks ago, everybody was on wfh, in office, day in day out scenario. Next week we're all in there for 90% of the time.....Boss is saying there are no cases in a long time now in our county and we all live within the county so no real reason to be at home.......

I think employers are being short signed. If there is a chance to even accommodate a 60/40 split from home it can have huge advantages. Smaller work space required, better work life balance for staff which is always a positive. They could attract new staff down the line who are looking for a better work life balance.

But I also think employees naively assumed they could all stay at home full time going forward which was never going to happen.

I hope people can negotiate.

JimmyVik

adocholiday wrote: »

I'm not sure that remote work is going to be embraced by that many companies after things go back to normal. I was in the job market very recently and I specified to each recruiter I've spoken to (applied for about 20 positions across companies of various sizes) that WFH at least 2 days per week was an absolute must and the vast majority said that the employer intended to go back to 100% office time.

Now I work in the business side of the IT sector so I expect for technical roles that will be different but I think the majority of the workforce will end up back where we were pre-Covid.

I work in IT development. We will not be allowed to work from home (we are when we are sick) and the reason they give is that it would be unfair on the people who cant work from home. Most other people I know in my field are the same. There are some who work remotely all the time. But the vast majority are office based most of the week.

JimmyVik

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

I'd say that will eventually be the case, depending on the type of profession.

But it may be that less people move to the cities in the first place rather than large scale movement out of the cities.

Im from a rural area.
In a few years I would like to move back as i get old.
But nobody I knew growing up wanted to be living there after they left school.
As soon as they were old enough they all either got jobs in the city, abroad or went to college. After college none of us would go home either.
There is a certain age range where you want to spread your wings and then another when you would like to go back to your roots.

Blanco100

Absolute madness dragging people into Dublin city centre (for some it can be a 4 hour round trip) just to sit at their phone and computer. Its just bonkers. And it costs everyone, financially (know someone travelling from Ballinasloe to Dublin on daily basis and even with tax saver thats a significant wedge), work life balance obviously and the mental health would have to suffer there as much as with being on "lockdown".

You would hope employers would be more accomodating. Of course its different if you live 10 mins from you office

kippy

JimmyVik wrote: »

I work in IT development. We will not be allowed to work from home (we are when we are sick) and the reason they give is that it would be unfair on the people who cant work from home. Most other people I know in my field are the same. There are some who work remotely all the time. But the vast majority are office based most of the week.

"It would be unfair on the people who can't work from home"
That's a sh1t reason.

jrosen

I think for some companies its easier to have a blanket rule of no work from home that have to individuals have different arrangements in place.

Blanco100

kippy wrote: »

"It would be unfair on the people who can't work from home"
That's a sh1t reason.

It will also only take a handful of people in a large organisation to take the piss, for it to affect everyone, who may be very diligent from home too.

Alot of it is middle management who get a buzz out of coming in in the morning and seeing "their team" gathered together. You see it all the time, they also love the sycophants who hang on their every word and use it as means of getting promoted. "Visibility" is a term used in alot of multi nationals now where its dog eat dog. Where not getting the job done is not as bad as not been seen doing your job.

seamus

Blanco100 wrote: »

Eventually wages will reflect where you live, even if working for same organisation. Already happening in US, facebook are paying same workers different wage for same job. If you live in a high cost location you will be paid rate reflective of high cost.

If you live in cheaper area, it will be reflective of that rate.

Not saying its right, but just saying this is a practice that is already in place.

It's a practice in place in the US.
San Francisco is a special beast. Mid-level technology workers in many silicon valley companies earn wages comparable to a CEO in Europe.

A lot of what goes on there is company CEOs **** each other off; companies are in Silicon Valley so that they can say they are. In many ways it's the L.A. of technology. The only reason big tech CEOs operate from San Fran is so they can be treated like celebrities and rub shoulders with other CEOs. And in order for the CEO to be there, the company needs loads of workers there, and because costs are so high, they have to pay big wages.

What's my point?

These companies don't want to pay San Francisco wages, but they know if they don't their San Fran-based workers will leave.

What will happen over time, far from companies paying wages rated based on location, they will just stop hiring people demanding large wages. If you want to live in Soho or Ballsbridge and need €3k a month for your rent on a two-bed apartment, that's your problem. The company is not going to pay you more than your colleague in Carlow. Why would they?

What will initially be touted as a "race to the bottom", will introduce a more egalitarian wage base across the country. City wages will take a plummet, property values will drop, trendy overpriced shops and cafes will go out of business. But outside of the cities, property values will go up, wages will go up, and new businesses will open up to serve the communities who are now there seven days a week instead of just at the weekends.

Within a decade or two, there will still be some regional variations in wages and property values. Cities are still desirable, many jobs cannot be done from home. But the wage gaps won't be as pronounced as we have had.

[Deleted User]

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Well I guess that means you don't have an issue with providing proof of address.

Not sure what you mean here? I always use and have used my home address as proof of address regardless of where I was living.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Could be interesting if you unexpectedly don't show for work one day and aren't answering your phone, so they ask the guards to do a welfare check.

The chances of them contacting the guards would be close to zero, what company would contact the guards because an employee didn't show up on one day? Also I could be in the office, working from home or working in a remote office we have and they don't really keep track so if I wasn't in they would assume I was in one of the other places or taking a day off. Though its sort of irrelevant as I'm mostly living at home for the last while and my home address and the address of my house when built will be exactly the same so my address wont be changing again.

Even if the guards called home they would find my parents who would either know where I was or find out somehow so still now sure why it would be "interesting".

Blanco100

seamus wrote: »

It's a practice in place in the US.
San Francisco is a special beast. Mid-level technology workers in many silicon valley companies earn wages comparable to a CEO in Europe.

A lot of what goes on there is company CEOs **** each other off; companies are in Silicon Valley so that they can say they are. In many ways it's the L.A. of technology. The only reason big tech CEOs operate from San Fran is so they can be treated like celebrities and rub shoulders with other CEOs. And in order for the CEO to be there, the company needs loads of workers there, and because costs are so high, they have to pay big wages.

What's my point?

These companies don't want to pay San Francisco wages, but they know if they don't their San Fran-based workers will leave.

What will happen over time, far from companies paying wages rated based on location, they will just stop hiring people demanding large wages. If you want to live in Soho or Ballsbridge and need €3k a month for your rent on a two-bed apartment, that's your problem. The company is not going to pay you more than your colleague in Carlow. Why would they?

What will initially be touted as a "race to the bottom", will introduce a more egalitarian wage base across the country. City wages will take a plummet, property values will drop, trendy overpriced shops and cafes will go out of business. But outside of the cities, property values will go up, wages will go up, and new businesses will open up to serve the communities who are now there seven days a week instead of just at the weekends.

Within a decade or two, there will still be some regional variations in wages and property values. Cities are still desirable, many jobs cannot be done from home. But the wage gaps won't be as pronounced as we have had.

Thats very aspirational I think. Would be very interest to see this develop.

It will pull the rug out from alot of middle management especially, whose entire modus operandi is not serviced by working remotely. I find that when working remotely, I actually have to put in the hours.

I often wonder what some of the management are doing these last 2 months when they cannot wander the office floor trying to get their next half baked project off the floor that serves no purpose but to get said boss their next promotion

mayo londoner

I'm really dreading going back the week after next, going to be extremely hard to re-adjust to the arse lickers, office melters and all the ****e that goes with it. Loving working from home and no decrease in productivity, been busier if anything. My company couldn't have less interest in offering any semblance of WFH once 29th June comes.

Old school management just never learn, really hope there's a mass exodus from the company once office reopens (they offer zero benefits/perks as is) and other companies start to offer WFH.

I've an interview coming up in the next few weeks where they will offer minimum of one day per week WFH, hell of a lot less money per week but would be relocating so saving on future house purchase costs/rent etc. I'd value the flexibility of being able to WFH at a good €50 per day. Can offer all the money in the world but if you aren't remotely happy in your job, know the company doesn't give a ****e about me or any other employee for that matter, then what's the point of having couple hundred extra quid in the bank every week, misery of it all wears you down eventually. The freedom of being able to work from home, extra time in the morning and evening, less noise around me during working hours, not listening to other people's nonsense has been heaven, job can be stressful and as I said up above I've been busier than ever, yet I don't feel half as stressed due to WFH if that makes any sense.

antimatterx

lickalot wrote: »

Or Ireland.

I think it is. We were always told in college to include our address on CV's.

[Deleted User]

mayo londoner wrote: »

........ My company couldn't have less interest in offering any semblance of WFH once 29th June comes. ........

Are they oblivious to ......... https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/covid19_what_you_need_to_do.html#l263a9 ............ If you can work from home you must work from home. However, if you cannot work from home and your workplace has reopened, you can travel to work.

Anyone working from home since MArch can obviously WFH so they shouldn't be back to the office on the 29th June.

Shakey_jake

My place is really pushing WFH i feel sorry for people working for companies who cant see it's the future, id be running out the door tbh

Will most likely be working Mondays and Fridays from home

Yaay!

JimmyVik

kippy wrote: »

"It would be unfair on the people who can't work from home"
That's a sh1t reason.

Im sure the real reason is that the boss liked his minions where he can stand over them.

BrianD3

I've posted a few times about WFH in the public sector and the obstacles I envisaged with "managers" pressuring everyone to get back to the office fulltime. This has now started to happen (in at least some workplaces) in contravention of government guidelines and guidelines from other public service bodies and departments.

It is causing a huge amount of bad feeling and stress among those who have been working successfully from home but have ongoing difficulties with childcare or other caring responsibilities.

The problem I see is that managers are disengaged from what their staff do and therefore don't know that they have been working successfully from home. Performance issues are not tackled whether they are occurring at home or in office. Appraisals are a joke. Very few measurable targets are set. When you dispense with the above, what sort of management style are you left with? Seems to be a case of "Is she at her desk? No. Get her back. Ok she's back, my job is done now"

The unions need to be all over this but from what I've seen they aren't, in fact I think unions are anti working from home as they are fearful about outsourcing?