BloodyBill wrote: » Dublin was founded on slavery. It was the biggest slaving town in Europe after Marseille. Absolving the native Irish if any involvement is silly. It's like the current denying of any involvement of ordinary Irish in colonialism or Empire building.
When the Vikings established early Scandinavian Dublin in 841, they began a slave market that would come to sell thralls captured both in Ireland and other countries as distant as Spain,[5] as well as sending Irish slaves as far away as Iceland,[6] where Gaels formed 40% of the founding population,[7] and Anatolia.[8] In 875, Irish slaves in Iceland launched Europe's largest slave rebellion since the end of the Roman Empire, when Hjörleifr Hróðmarsson's slaves killed him and fled to Vestmannaeyjar.I][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I Almost all recorded slave raids in this period took place in Leinster and southeast Ulster; while there was almost certainly similar activity in the south and west, only one raid from the Hebrides on the Aran Islands is recorded.[9]
Hamsterchops wrote: » Wow, that's a pretty hardline, uncompromising approach to an all island harmonious "Unity".
Not sure how they'd react to that up North
BloodyBill wrote: » I think a whole new flag with none of the present colours or symbols would be the best way forward. The IRFU flag is not suitable as a country's Flag. 4 different symbols is a non runner. Simplicity is the best way forward. The artists should just be given parameters that the colours and shape should have no link to the past whatsoever.
jm08 wrote: » This is what you asked: Well actually, it was the Vikings who were the slave traders. And then of course the English and Welsh used sell their own kids. The biggest market for slaves was England and that trade fell apart when William the Conqueror banned slavery in the Kingdom of England. Prior to that under Brehon Law, there was a kind of Caste system, but you could move up the ranks if you were not a criminal.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Speaking for myself I would never give up our flag, anthem or anything else to appease unionists.
FrancieBrady wrote: » A green rectangle should keep everyone happy. Then you can project/imagine/dream any symbol or meaning on to it that you wish. An Anthem without lyrics as well.
jm08 wrote: » Shamrock is how St. Patrick explained the Holy Trinity, so maybe not such a good idea in a secular state. Personally, I'd go for the Harp as a nod to our own history and as part of the United Kingdom of GB & Ireland on a green background (basically, the Presidential Standard, except in green, not blue). Still think the tricolour is most appropriate in its symbolism. From an article in the Guardian written by a young unionist who got an Irish passport 4 years ago!https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/16/ireland-unite-reclaim-common-past-build-shared-future
Yeah_Right wrote: » I agree. One "coat of arms" on a flag is fine but 4 wouldn't work. The obvious answer is to replicate Canada's except green instead of red and a shamrock instead of a maple leaf.
jm08 wrote: » OK - 3 colours. The IRFU flag with the 4 provinces has about 10 colours and of course the symbols on it disintegrate into a blob when reduced in size.
downcow wrote: » Francie. I know it’s late but that is a pathetic edit of my post. I’ll not repeat it as posters can see the original a few posts up.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Because they thought they would get away with pathetically taunting others. Nobody is buying it, not even the shirt sponsors.
downcow wrote: » is going to enlighten me as to why Linfield chose purple and orange?
Deleted User wrote: » I struggle to believe your new found interest in soccer and flags etc has nothing to do with today being the 26th anniversary of loughlinisland massacre Which curiously is in co down....il say no more on risk of being banned
eire4 wrote: » I was very clear. I was and am in favour of the 4 provinces flag replacing the current tricolour after reunification. Nothing remotely opaque about that. Nice try at twisting that very clear and unambiguous statement into something different. Just the kind of disingenuous behaviour by yourself which precludes me from having anything other then enormous skepticism in regards to what you posit in your posts generally and also why I am disinclined to engage with you.
jm08 wrote: » So whats the symbolism of the provincial flags that you hold dear? What does it represent? Is there a national flag that has more than 2 colours (+ white). There is a reason why you don't see too many combined provincial flags around! edit: as well as that, the 4 provincial flags don't work in a small size for example for crests on jerseys etc. It would just be a blob.
downcow wrote: » Are you guys thinking junkyard means a sporting anthem and flag for the irfu team rather than NI anthem/flag? If that’s the case all my previous points apply. I would be very keen and very happy to cooperate on such. I actually think the vast major of Unionists would be very keen. Of course I guess that realisation will put junkyard off the idea as he usually works on the precept that if unionists want it he must oppose it
jm08 wrote: » Not a hope, too many colours, too fussy and expensive to reproduce. It would only be a compromise. You need something better than that. A child should easily be able to draw a recognisable flag and any symbols on it should be simple.
downcow wrote: » Anyone wish to clarify, is this new flag and anthem for Northern Ireland or for IRFU?
RobMc59 wrote: » NI paddled their own canoe and has done a pretty good job,certainly better than the rest of us(and that includes Ireland)despite the incessant moaning of Michelle O`Neill on the British side of the border telling everyone how it should be done and Mary Lou on the Irish side doing exactly the same. Regarding the kit,like Downcow I have no interest in Linfield and if the kit has sold out that`s probably thanks to the publicity received.
FrancieBrady wrote: » So the 'moderate' runs away from a request where he could easily show how moderate he is...again. There is an expectation among us that the flag will need changing come a UI, that is what we are discussing. The only people who want to change the IRFU flag are yourself and nameless friends of yours...you are free to chat to them about it.
downcow wrote: » That took a while. So yes is the answer. It took so long that I forget why I was asking you
Originally Posted by downcow Was Ireland involved in the slave trade? Did Ireland take slaves for their benefit? Were there even slaves in Ireland? you painting this picture about being squeaky clean. More denial
FrancieBrady wrote: » You are portraying the kit at the centre of a sectarian controversy selling out to be 'good thing'? I would think that the Covid crisis has shown everybody (everyone sensible that is) on this island that two autonomous regions on the one island can present a health threat if one diverges from the other, as nearly happened.
downcow wrote: » Didn't know that that was a criteria for discussion. I also didn't know that there was a request/demand to change the ROI flag, but I do think you guys should keep tossing about and come up with something as the tricolour is both boring and has very nasty associations. But hey, you guys do with your flag what you wish. You wouldn't want my advice lol
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