Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Th is has really descended into cuckoo land. No one is going to break any contracts.

The actual comment from RPI is far more concerning

Indeed. Some fairytale stuff being suggested.

The comment from RPI is definitely a concerning sign and all is not well in Lansdowne Road it appears. I'd be relatively hopeful that the last couple of days is a bluff by both sides to manage their PR side of negotiations and the remainder will be done behind closed doors and all signed off on satisfactorily.

stephen_n

Apart from the obvious Ruan effect, I’m struggling to understand why Awec hates the IRFU and the players so much.

The RPA and the Premiership are at serious loggerheads as well. I'm told we could see a spate of retirements there.

I don't believe for a second that the players couldn't deep fry the IRFU in the court of public opinion in a hypothetical situation where the union tried to deny them due monies. Many of those players are quasi-celebs with extensive networks built up.

The other strange part about thinking the players would lose support if they took the IRFU to court would be that the outcome of that case would set a legal precedent, so everyone in the country that has had pay deferred or has money pending for any work done already would side with them because setting the precedent that employers could go back on fulfilling a contract after the fact would set a very dangerous precedent for the whole country.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Agreed. The point awec made was for the IRFU to just break the contracts and the players wouldn't take the risk of challenging them publicly if it happened.

All I've said is that deferred pay shouldn't be paid back until the union is on a sound financial footing, and that top earners should take the brunt of cuts to insulate the lower earners from it.

But whatever, this is apparently lunacy. Meanwhile, in the papers today Leinster have an 8 million budget black hole, and the IRFU look set to lose 15 million in a best case outcome, while all provinces are literally asking for charity.

awec wrote: »

All I've said is that deferred pay shouldn't be paid back until the union is on a sound financial footing, and that top earners should take the brunt of cuts to insulate the lower earners from it.

But whatever, this is apparently lunacy. Meanwhile, in the papers today Leinster have an 8 million budget black hole, and the IRFU look set to lose 15 million in a best case outcome, while all provinces are literally asking for charity.

To be kind I'm going to assume you're being deliberately obtuse.

The original plan was to defer pay until July with the hope things would be back to normal by then and it could be paid back.

So for April, May, June the staff would get (normal pay) - x%
Then July, August, September they'd get (normal pay) + x%

That was all subject to how the finances were and would be revisited at the end of June. Which is what's happening now.

It is beyond blindingly obvious that the IRFU are not planning to be paying back that deferred pay while simultaneously making pay cuts.

They're not going to be paying people (normal pay) - 20%+x% for the next three months.

To even suggest as such, which you are, just shows that you're whole reasoning for getting so worked up about all this has absolutely no basis on what's actually happening and is actually based on something, god knows what, completely unrelated and you're just using the situation to have a go.
Now do us all a favour and grow up.

awec

D14Rugby wrote: »

To be kind I'm going to assume you're being deliberately obtuse.

The original plan was to defer pay until July with the hope things would be back to normal by then and it could be paid back.

So for April, May, June the staff would get (normal pay) - x%
Then July, August, September they'd get (normal pay) + x%

That was all subject to how the finances were and would be revisited at the end of June. Which is what's happening now.

It is beyond blindingly obvious that the IRFU are not planning to be paying back that deferred pay while simultaneously making pay cuts.

They're not going to be paying people (normal pay) - 20%+x% for the next three months.

To even suggest as such, which you are, just shows that you're whole reasoning for getting so worked up about all this has absolutely no basis on what's actually happening and is actually based on something, god knows what, completely unrelated and you're just using the situation to have a go.
Now do us all a favour and grow up.

This is literally what the article says they are doing.

But whatever, I’ll say no more. You can relax.

awec wrote: »

This is literally what the article says they are doing.

But whatever, I’ll say no more. You can relax.

Ah yeah I forgot Gerry Thornley is the IRFU oracle and does know exactly what's going on. He's never been wrong before...

awec

D14Rugby wrote: »

Ah yeah I forgot Gerry Thornley is the IRFU oracle and does know exactly what's going on. He's never been wrong before...

Hes certainly no D14Rugby, that’s for sure.

awec wrote: »

Hes certainly no D14Rugby, that’s for sure.

You realise he's put that in there so people with issues with the IRFU will bite and generate outrage about nothing to generate him clicks.

And you fell for it hook line and sinker because you're so blinded by your pre existing biases towards the IRFU.

Former Former

D14Rugby wrote: »

Ah yeah I forgot Gerry Thornley is the IRFU oracle and does know exactly what's going on. He's never been wrong before...

Gerry Thornley is very well connected with IRFU sources. I have absolutely no doubt that what he wrote is accurate.

And an IRFU spokesman more or less confirmed it.

Former Former wrote: »

Gerry Thornley is very well connected with IRFU sources. I have absolutely no doubt that what he wrote is accurate.

And an IRFU spokesman more or less confirmed it.

An irfu spokesperson confirmed that negotiations were on about a 20% cut. They confirmed nothing about the pay deferral repayment.

Former Former

D14Rugby wrote: »

An irfu spokesperson confirmed that negotiations were on about a 20% cut. They confirmed nothing about the pay deferral repayment.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Do you think they won't pay over the deferred salaries?

Burkie1203

D14Rugby wrote: »

An irfu spokesperson confirmed that negotiations were on about a 20% cut. They confirmed nothing about the pay deferral repayment.

Philip Browne stated a few weeks ago they wouldn't continue with deferrals indefinitely as it's just building up a debt but that it would be repaid in due course

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Do you think they won't pay over the deferred salaries?

I don't think that they are going to pay back the deferred money while having people take paycuts. At least not initially. For tax purposes they may have to pay them back before end of the tax year though which would just be another level of complication that though would likely only affect staff/players on lower pay levels and its just pure speculation on my part but I can easily see carrying pay over to the next year having tax implications

ionadnapóca

Willie John has reached "four score years"
talking last week about tours to SA. Some nice stories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc-zs4Nygrg

Cant recommend this enough to get some insight into his greatness as leader and a man.

Paul Smeenus

You always hear about the "99 call" - interesting to hear it from the point of view of the S. Africans, and about the second half of that third Lions test - how that settled it down into some actual good rugby.

Eod100

Interesting to see IRFU teamed with Liverpool to look at impact of hamstring injuries in rugby vs football.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/06/16/irfu-liverpool-fc-share-best-practice-on-hamstring-injuries/

I see Wood and BOD named their XV of the 21st century. Wood did the forwards, BOD did the backs with the exception of 10 where BOD said he could not pick someone as both ROG and Sexton are his friends and one would hold a grudge if he didn't pick him. Neither Wood nor BOD could be selected:

Healy
Best
Furlong
POC
Ryan
SOB
Wallace
Heaslip
Murray
ROG
Earls
D'Arcy
Ringrose
Bowe
Kearney

Interesting mentions for Flannery (BOD was a big advocate for Flannery) and Reddan who apparently were big leaders behind the scenes in terms of setting standards off the pitch and demanding more of those around them. Surprisingly, they spoke very highly of Leamy also in relation to his skill set.

Payne noted as arguably the most influential loss in the 2015 RWC but simply wasn't around enough to be ahead of Ringrose.

Each had one veto for the others' selections.

BOD would have had Ferris instead of Wallace in the backrow. Wood was going to use his veto if BOD chose Sexton.

Where the **** is Hayes?! :mad:

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Where the **** is Hayes?! :mad:

Milking the cows

Podge_irl

Wood picked ROG then I take it? I despair of any of these selections that don't pick Sexton at 10.

Ryan is a pretty big call ahead of MOK and DOC.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wood picked ROG then I take it? I despair of any of these selections that don't pick Sexton at 10.

Ryan is a pretty big call ahead of MOK and DOC.

Wood picked ROG on the basis that he came through more adversity in his earlier career than Sexton had to. It was fairly transparent that BOD would pick Sexton; he said he wouldn't make the decision as one of the players would take it badly and admitted that person was ROG.

Both of them readily had Ryan and POC in the team without any debate. It was an interesting discussion as much for those who were left out as for those who were included. There was no debate around Healy, Furlong, Ryan, POC, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Bowe or Kearney. D'Arcy was fairly quickly in there too; I thought there might be a little more discussion around Henshaw.

Earls was also very highly spoken of by BOD despite him being friendly with Horgan and Hickie and I don't think he considered anyone else for that spot.

I found their comments around guys like Flannery, Leamy, Reddan etc. to be more interesting than a lot of their actual selections. I was genuinely surprised to hear BOD ask Wood why he wasn't considering Leamy at all and speak about his skill levels which he considered to be higher than those of Wallace.

Buer wrote: »

I was genuinely surprised to hear BOD ask Wood why he wasn't considering Leamy at all and speak about his skill levels which he considered to be higher than those of Wallace.

Leamy is probably underrated given the other players who played in his era but that's quite a statement! I'll have to listen to hear the exact comments.

Paul Smeenus

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wood picked ROG then I take it? I despair of any of these selections that don't pick Sexton at 10.

Ryan is a pretty big call ahead of MOK and DOC.

Oh I don't think so. Surely Ryan is streets ahead of both those guys in any criteria other than nostalgia?

These teams are always a weird mixture of who's mates with who, who contributed to (or was simply present for) winning what trophies, public persona and some genuine, up-close observations that the supporters wouldn't be familiar with.

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Oh I don't think so. Surely Ryan is streets ahead of both those guys in any criteria other than nostalgia?

These teams are always a weird mixture of who's mates with who, who contributed to (or was simply present for) winning what trophies, public persona and some genuine, up-close observations that the supporters wouldn't be familiar with.

Pretty much. A lot was clichéd rabble but there was some genuine insights. Wood was far more of an advocate for Best than Flannery but BOD was leaning towards Flannery (and said he played with Flannery through age grade too).

Wood made the interesting point that Best's leadership made him important. Not in terms of dealing with referees or decisions etc. but in so far as his coolness and personality on the pitch supported others and allowed them to perform to a higher level. It was an interesting take on something which we'd never have knowledge of in the stands.

geotrig

I know the current gen are probably the "best" overall etc with their wins etc , it does seem very unbalanced to recent caps though

Rigor Mortis

thomond2006 wrote: »

Where the **** is Hayes?! :mad:

Most likely crying

aloooof

geotrig wrote: »

I know the current gen are probably the "best" overall etc with their wins etc , it does seem very unbalanced to recent caps though

To be fair to them, the discussion came under the banner of "Greatest Ireland XV of the 21st Century".