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ESB eCars

liamog

Details from the dail on the eCars €10,000,000 expansion programme.

The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-01-24/10/?fbclid=IwAR1eGLQjNFuywCoaB__FJADns7gNOD09DaR9XLueHAKZ8vljfd-kL-_LpDs

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Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

It's 2021 they confirmed in a FB post a while back, originally meant to be this year but postponed due to covid

Didn't see that. Last I seen ievoa said because of covid it was postponed by some months, and a months notice will be given when prices are to be introduced. Never heard anything about 2021.

ELM327

I'm pretty sure "Anna" said it but I can't find the post either.

DrPhilG

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure "Anna" said it but I can't find the post either.

Which Anna though? I can only assume that everyone who works for eCars is called Anna.

And eCars NI which according to eCars is an entirely separate entity, is also staffed exclusively by Annas.

McGiver

JohnC. wrote:

You'll probably spend more time deciding which biscuits to buy in the shop that you will spend "faffing" plugging in the cable.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

If you want 2*22kW then install 2*22kW DC IMO

That would be a good compromise. Do they exist?

McGiver

unkel wrote:

In a country like the Netherlands, there are fast chargers everywhere. Nobody needs home or work charging to own an EV. Just like nobody fills up with petrol or diesel at home or at work

Except for the fact that NL have 850k EVs on an area of Leinster+Munster. Very good high density market.

RoI has 25k EVs on almost double the area. Generally low population density and no large population centres bar Dublin and perhaps Cork as well, it's hard to maintain any sort of infrastructure in Ireland.

Catch 22 situation. Privately owned charging network is profitable when there is enough EVs, enough EVs need a sufficient network.
We'll get there, I hope. The gov need to focus on supporting the uptake - carrot and stick required for that.

innrain

Yes. They do. Rolec has one produced by delta the same company behind the ecars ultrafast. Look up DC25kW wallbox. About 10k vs 1k for 22kW AC

McGiver

innrain wrote:

Yes. They do. Rolec has one produced by delta the same company behind the ecars ultrafast. Look up DC25kW wallbox. About 10k vs 1k for 22kW AC

Yeah, I know 2x22 kW AC can be had relatively much cheaper than 50 kW DC.

So I'm pretty sure 22 kW DC won't be cheap...

Maybe that's the real reason why all Tescos etc do AC?

And maybe reliability? Doesn't have the DC extra inverter or something?

AndyBoBandy

Tried using an eCars DC 'fast' CCS charger yesterday for the first time. Not through necessity, but rather curiosity and learning.

Arrived at 36% SOC, and charged up to 60% in about 17 minutes, getting speeds of 41-42kWh (only car on the stall). Not exactly earth shattering speeds, but not snails pace either.

I wouldn't fancy having to go from 20% up to 80% on a motorway journey, so these new 150kWh units on certain routes will be more than welcome to complement the Ionity/SuC network. They should definitely be installed in addition though to what's already there (if grid connection allows for it) as opposed to replacing, as if you had to wait 10-15 minutes for the 150kWh to become free, you could be plugging away on a slower DC, or even on AC thus reducing the overall time needed on the 150kWh.

In an ideal eCars world, you could have (in a motorway services) 1 or 2* of the 150kWh 'super fasts', 2 or 4* of the slower DC 44/50kWh, and then perhaps 2-4* AC22kWh for the folk who'll stop for longer than an hour, or for Zoe's/Model S that can take the full 22kWh if the DC's are unavailable.

*1 or 2 & 2 or 4 depending on how busy the particular route is.

And if they put in fewer units initially, still do the groundwork/wiring for more/bigger units down the road so when it comes to it, it's simply plug & play more units into the set up.

slave1

I get constant 43kWh on a Leaf almost from the word go, thought the M3 would suck at the max 50?

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

I get constant 43kWh on a Leaf almost from the word go, thought the M3 would suck at the max 50?

The voltage is a bit lower afair

The 250kW peak is due to super high (666a) amperage, the voltage is 350V

AndyBoBandy

Plugshare says its a 50kWh unit (as I believe some are only 44kWh?).
Maxol, Turvey Services (M1)

It pretty much levelled out at 42kWh, and I didn't see higher..
Could it have been because I was at 36%? and perhaps an initial lower SOC might have given a faster rate?

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Plugshare says its a 50kWh unit (as I believe some are only 44kWh?).
Maxol, Turvey Services (M1)

It pretty much levelled out at 42kWh, and I didn't see higher..
Could it have been because I was at 36%? and perhaps an initial lower SOC might have given a faster rate?

No, you generally get the highest rate at a 50kW/44kW charger between 60 and 75-80% in a tesla due to the different taper.

It's the lower voltage from the car and the less amps available (max 125a) from the charger. For comparison, if you plugged in to Ionity, you could draw 190kW at 500a (LR/P) or approx 425a (SR+)

AndyBoBandy

I stopped at 60% (SR+), so perhaps if I'd waited a bit I might have seen the full 50?

ELM327

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I stopped at 60% (SR+), so perhaps if I'd waited a bit I might have seen the full 50?

I dont think you'd see a full 50 in the car as the net amount is displayed. I find in my S that the 50kW charger displays 51kW between ~60% and ~75%, but it shows as 45-46-47kW in the car

innrain

For me the best way to express the charging speed is in km/h. To do that you need to know your average consumption rate. In my case with a Kona after nearly 30k km it stands at 15.5 kwh/100km so 45 - 47 kW is around 300km/h . That is for day to day driving. If I know I'm going to do a full motorway run where the consumption will peak at around 18-19 kWh/100km then I can do my math. This is the reason that I rarely charge at a fast over 75% where charging speed drops at 25kW or 160km/h. That is time wasted.

For M3 probably is not much difference on the consumption rate. The difference is that the charging at 50kw tapers after 85%

ELM327

The problem with that is it's based on too many variables (personal fuel consumption vs rated, different makes, models, weather etc)
kW is standard for a reason.

(charging full whack at a 50kW charger for me is about 220 km/h)

slave1

innrain wrote: »

For me the best way to express the charging speed is in km/h. To do that you need to know your average consumption rate. In my case with a Kona after nearly 30k km it stands at 15.5 kwh/100km so 45 - 47 kW is around 300km/h . That is for day to day driving. If I know I'm going to do a full motorway run where the consumption will peak at around 18-19 kWh/100km then I can do my math. This is the reason that I rarely charge at a fast over 75% where charging speed drops at 25kW or 160km/h. That is time wasted.

For M3 probably is not much difference on the consumption rate. The difference is that the charging at 50kw tapers after 85%

Oh God, don't mention km/h in here, popcorn time (and they have a point...)

innrain

Popcorn, no popcorn is for ones perception. I've seen people sitting in the car charging at <11kW. If I could make them understand they are sitting more time to charge than to drive it's bonus points for me. I'm curious wha'ts their point that they have? I don't say the charger has to display that. Maybe your car if you want to. I understand perfectly the units even though sometimes I write w instead of W

[Deleted User]

slave1 wrote: »

I get constant 43kWh on a Leaf almost from the word go, thought the M3 would suck at the max 50?

Not with a cold battery you won't.

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

Not with a cold battery you won't.

I can drive 3kms to a rapid and it will give 43 from the word go, L30, it has never ramped up, always goes right up to 43

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

I can drive 3kms to a rapid and it will give 43 from the word go, L30, it has never ramped up, always goes right up to 43

That's because it's optimized for 50kW charging. The l30 has the best charging curve for a chademo car.

The m3 has lower voltage at lower SOC so will take less kW for the same amperage 125a at the charger end is the limitation.
I've seen model 3 charge at 671a on V3 SuC so the limitation is not in the car.

Stealthirl

The eCars 22kw at Tesco Maynooth has got a lot busier in the last 12 months. Locals with no home charging use it a fair bit. My last few times there it's had 2 cars plugged in and sometimes a 3rd parked waiting.

Black_Knight

Stealthirl wrote: »

The eCars 22kw at Tesco Maynooth has got a lot busier in the last 12 months. Locals with no home charging use it a fair bit. My last few times there it's had 2 cars plugged in and sometimes a 3rd parked waiting.

Baffling! Who knows how long one might have to wait at a slow charger before it frees up. I've seen start times on ecars app of yesterday some times. When its free, people are asses.

As far as I know there's no overstay fee planned.

JohnC.

An overstay fee would be difficult to implement when they can be in places, like train stations and park and rides, where people will be gone for a significant time. Unless they could separate out those ones and basically have 2 tiers, which would introduce other problems.

McGiver

JohnC. wrote:

An overstay fee would be difficult to implement when they can be in places, like train stations and park and rides, where people will be gone for a significant time. Unless they could separate out those ones and basically have 2 tiers, which would introduce other problems.

In Europe they use two tiered fees for ACs which works sort of like overstay fee. Typically the first tier is 2 to 3 hours.

ELM327

Black_Knight wrote: »

Baffling! Who knows how long one might have to wait at a slow charger before it frees up. I've seen start times on ecars app of yesterday some times. When its free, people are asses.

As far as I know there's no overstay fee planned.

Can't have overstay fees on destination chargers. That would be stupid
Unless they use time based charging when you're connected (as opposed to when you are charging) then there is no way of doing what you suggest.

slave1

Good God, overstay fees on AC chargers, if anyone is even thinking it in eCars they need themselves examined.
Imagine, hooking up to a 2kW charger and getting charged for staying more than 36hrs on a Tesla

Royale with Cheese

I charged my car off a lamppost in Dun Laoghaire yesterday, I didn't realise there were any of these in Ireland.

I got a solid 7kw out of it, thought it was pretty cool. Any plans for ESB or anyone else to build a few more of these?

Black_Knight

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I charged my car off a lamppost in Dun Laoghaire yesterday, I didn't realise there were any of these in Ireland.

I got a solid 7kw out of it, thought it was pretty cool. Any plans for ESB or anyone else to build a few more of these?

Are ESB building/providing these? I'd of assumed it's local councils. There's 1 in the park near me, but only gives 3kW. Not great really, but for a few hours in the park you can get a few km back for little effort. No cards, no fobs, just plug and play.