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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election
I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

JohnnyFlash

There's a growing possibility that the Green Party members won't vote for the deal.

Then it's back to the drawing board. Mary Lou can put together a coalition of change with Labour, Social Democrats, Greens, Loony Left, and Independents. That's certainly change.

Or FF could throw MM and a few others under the bus, and start playing footsie with SF. Rotating Taoiseach etc.

FG go and sit in opposition.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters
it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters

it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

You can't argue with the numbers, Francie, they are there in black and white.

87 TDs available to Mary-Lou. She barely convinced her own to back her.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? To me it’s just stating the obvious. One party, if they really wanted, could have formed a government with the rest of the elected TDs without either FF or FG.

They could have had everyone else agreed. They didn't. Therefore the numbers were not there.

That may have been PBP the SD's The Greens or indeed SF not playing ball, but the upshot is the numbers were not there.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

Really? To me it’s just stating the obvious. One party, if they really wanted, could have formed a government with the rest of the elected TDs without either FF or FG.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

What does this mean? I’m my own person and speak as I see.

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

What does this mean? I’m my own person and speak as I see.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

FG + FF = 73
All the others totalled 87

Simples.

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do them for us.

Let us see where the support was.

You claimed it, you back it up.

FG + FF = 73
All the others totalled 87

Simples.

[Deleted User]

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Putting the country first by completely ignoring a party who got about 25% of the votes?

Thats what you do for your country alright.

Well when the 25% party made little effort to form a government, yes. The others are putting the country first.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that they didn’t respond to PBP. How do I know that the numbers are there? I did the sums.

Do them for us.

Let us see where the support was.

You claimed it, you back it up.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know this?

I know that they didn’t respond to PBP. How do I know that the numbers are there? I did the sums.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course the numbers were there. Even without FF and FG. SF just didn’t try.

How do you know this?

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the point that people are ignoring or missing. They are putting the country first. The fallout from the Covid pandemic will be monumental and tough decisions will have to be made. The fickle electorate will punish whoever makes those decisions. Kudos to Leo, Michael and Eamon for stepping up.

Putting the country first by completely ignoring a party who got about 25% of the votes?

Thats what you do for your country alright.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not wading through the sludge of the old Politics Cafe to find the relevant posts, but Francie defended the endorsement of Slab Murphy as a good republican. He knows it, everyone knows it, why pretend otherwise?

So you cant show when he defended him. Thats a surprise :eek:

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not wading through the sludge of the old Politics Cafe to find the relevant posts, but Francie defended the endorsement of Slab Murphy as a good republican. He knows it, everyone knows it, why pretend otherwise?

Gerry Adams is entitled to his view of Slab Murphy.

You said

As you regularly point out when defending those thugs,

and have once again failed to back that up.

Defending everybody's right to a fair trial is NOT defending thuggery.

If you got your way the likes of Sil Fox would be well into a prison sentence now merely because somebody alleged he sexually assaulted them.

[Deleted User]

blanch152 wrote: »

The numbers are there. They are there for every party, that is just a silly excuse.

Just compromise and negotiate a common Programme for Government. It is the art of the possible.

Let us be fair to FF/FG/Greens. They have showed that they have the ability to get together and negotiate something. Yes, they may have problems getting it over the line, but their leaders have put a shoulder to the wheel.

That is the point that people are ignoring or missing. They are putting the country first. The fallout from the Covid pandemic will be monumental and tough decisions will have to be made. The fickle electorate will punish whoever makes those decisions. Kudos to Leo, Michael and Eamon for stepping up.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where did I 'defend' Slab Murphy?

Mortelaro wrote: »

I have an unerring faith in human nature
To capture the disaffected, you have to have disaffected
Dedisaffect them, love bomb them mooney style effectively is the open goal SF has handed this new government
An opportunity knocked and an opportunity has been lost

I am not wading through the sludge of the old Politics Cafe to find the relevant posts, but Francie defended the endorsement of Slab Murphy as a good republican. He knows it, everyone knows it, why pretend otherwise?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The numbers weren't there...looks more and more likely they aren't there for FF, FG and the Greens too.

128 days wasted because they are all running scared of being blamed for another election?

The numbers are there. They are there for every party, that is just a silly excuse.

Just compromise and negotiate a common Programme for Government. It is the art of the possible.

Let us be fair to FF/FG/Greens. They have showed that they have the ability to get together and negotiate something. Yes, they may have problems getting it over the line, but their leaders have put a shoulder to the wheel.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The numbers weren't there...looks more and more likely they aren't there for FF, FG and the Greens too.

128 days wasted because they are all running scared of being blamed for another election?

Of course the numbers were there. Even without FF and FG. SF just didn’t try.