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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

lawrencesummers

Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
Failed field sobriety test.
Tussled with cops.
Shot and killed.
Looks on the outset like another use of excessive Force by police, but there is so much more wrong with it.

One cop has been fired and the other is Put on leave.

Firing somebody that immediately and without due process is probably in a bid to quell the protests - (but it hasn’t) But it can’t be right, surely these matters need investigation, statements and the a just decision, which may well be dismissal / charges filed etc.

There is a big risk of the authorities in the USA actually losing their own police force if they don’t maintain the law and order and due process that everyone deserves. Has the cop in this instance actually violated the procedures That are given to him for arresting people? If a cop needs to be fired then fine, fire hundreds of them but only after due process.

RIP the victim, On his daughters birthday apparently.

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yourdeadwright

JJayoo wrote: »

Guy was serving a jail sentence and was let out die to Corona virus risk in prison.

One of the charges was beating his kid.

Lovely guy, a true saint

Actually it was torturing his kids

JJayoo

Guy was serving a jail sentence and was let out die to Corona virus risk in prison.

One of the charges was beating his kid.

Lovely guy, a true saint

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

I agree with that argument, the trouble is they weren’t hit by the taser.

Stupid argument, you could say that if he shot at them and missed ,

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

How many police officers have been killed in the line of duty by a stun gun?

Did you mean Nally v Grace Community Church?

Well over 1000 people have died from Police Taser's in the last 20 years ,
You shoot one at the police or anyone you trying to hurt them ,

Rodin

Overheal wrote: »

Not all his making, he didn’t pull the trigger. Let’s not make sweeping statements that muddy the conversation.

What I’m asking, is say this all happened and cops successfully detained him anyway. Do you think the guy would be served the death penalty?

Afaik the death penalty is exceptionally rare and has narrowly focused criteria, which are not satisfied if nobody dies in the altercation or offenses. There is a lower standard if the perpetrator is acting in the furtherance of a Continuing Criminal Enterprise (no application on the night in question).

Can anyone point to a capital punishment case that set the death penalty for resisting arrest with a weapon?

He did pull the trigger.
You can see the gas release in the video.

Overheal

juice1304 wrote: »

He dosent need to be killed by the taser, it would have incapacitated him and he had a firearm in his hands. That is justification enough. He only shot him after the attempt to shoot the officer with the taser. His life would have been in jeopardy had he been hit by the taser.

I agree with that argument, the trouble is they weren’t hit by the taser.

juice1304

Overheal wrote: »

How many police officers have been killed in the line of duty by a stun gun?

Did you mean Nally v Grace Community Church?

He dosent need to be killed by the taser, it would have incapacitated him and he had a firearm in his hands. That is justification enough. He only shot him after the attempt to shoot the officer with the taser. His life would have been in jeopardy had he been hit by the taser.

ronivek

Overheal wrote: »

How many police officers have been killed in the line of duty by a stun gun?

Did you mean Nally v Grace Community Church?

He’s talking about an Irish case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward

Not really sure of the relevance though.

Overheal

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Thank God this drunk criminals aim was so good he was guaranteed to only hit the cops vest eh?

I mean, he could have shot him in the face, eyeball or anywhere really. Even the crown jewels but he was clearly aiming for and guaranteed to connect with the cops vest. From 20 feet away.

How many police officers have been killed in the line of duty by a stun gun?

Did you mean Nally v Grace Community Church?

[Deleted User]

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Another fact that people are not considering here is the range of a Taser is 25 feet.

Considering he was a few car lengths away when the shot was fired he was at the limit of the range If not outside it for the non lethal weapon. Against a cop wearing a bullet proof vest that wouldn’t have transmitted the electric anyway.

That’s not to even mention it was being fired by a drunk person, running in the opposite direction

The taser wasn’t a danger to the Cop if he took stock of the situation.

Thank God this drunk criminals aim was so good he was guaranteed to only hit the cops vest eh?

I mean, he could have shot him in the face, eyeball or anywhere really. Even the crown jewels but he was clearly aiming for and guaranteed to connect with the cops vest. From 20 feet away.

[Deleted User]

Overheal wrote: »

So the death penalty for assaulting a police officer?

The police response, as had been pointed out, does not need to be lesser than the threat they face. Police can use force that is greater than what's being used against them. In Ireland you can be shot by armed Gardai without yourself firing at the police. We don't have the death penalty in the first place even.

In the US, which I think people forget is where this happened, you can carry a firearm purely for settle defence.

You can use that firearm to defend yourself against attack. The attacker does not need to be armed and activeky shooting you before you can shoot them.

You can use that firearm to defend others that are under attack.

You can in some states, shoot someone for trying to steal your car!

What happens in Ireland and what we do in Ireland is irrelevant. It didn't happen here but even here lethal force is allowed in circumstances where no Criminal firearm was present and the crime didn't carry the death penalty.

Out of curiosity, did you disagree with the Nally decision?

[Deleted User]

Rodin wrote: »

He turned and fired...

Save your fingers, that's been pointed out numerous times. He, like many on this thread aren't interested in what actually happened.

[Deleted User]

Overheal wrote: »

If one drunk perp can stungun 2 officers and kill 1 with it before they can subdue them, then they certainly appear to be inadequately trained for the real world.

Do tell, if you are being stunned how do you not fall down? Plenty of spinach?

The real world? In the real world if you threaten a us cop with their own weapon that you have just physically removed, you get shot.

It's pretty laughable though, they shot him and they were over the top.

Don't shoot him and instead get hurt, they are incapable.

It seems no matter what, it would be the cops fault that a Criminal committed a crime.

If I'm ever getting smacked around with my own baton I shall certainly think to myself "what would overheal do?" After I have critiqued myself for not subduing the person using the Vulcan death grip thus forcing the criminal to beat me senseless in the first place of course.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

He wouldn't get the death penalty but the cop would still be dead. You may view him as an expendable pleb but he has the right to defend himself.

You’re muddying what I am saying with a rhetorical that relates to none of what I said. I was after all discussing the scenario of when there are no fatalities, as would have been the case here with better trained police officers. This is in response to the current scenario, where the perpetrator is dead and the cop is alive, and the charges are parole violation, DUI, resisting, fleeing, and assault with a weapon - and people arguing these charges rise to capital punishment. I disagree, of course.

In the event of an officer death, yes iirc the death penalty applies (though we still see a lot of cop killers make it to trial. Hmm)

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Not all his making, he didn’t pull the trigger. Let’s not make sweeping statements that muddy the conversation.

What I’m asking, is say this all happened and cops successfully detained him anyway. Do you think the guy would be served the death penalty?

Afaik the death penalty is exceptionally rare and has narrowly focused criteria, which are not satisfied if nobody dies in the altercation or offenses. There is a lower standard if the perpetrator is acting in the furtherance of a Continuing Criminal Enterprise (no application on the night in question).

Can anyone point to a capital punishment case that set the death penalty for resisting arrest with a weapon?

He wouldn't get the death penalty but the cop would still be dead. You may view him as an expendable pleb but he has the right to defend himself.

Overheal

Rodin wrote: »

With a tazer he stole from him while resisting arrest for being drunk at the wheel.

How do we know in the instant that he turned and fired that the shooting cop could be certain he hadn't taken his colleague's gun in the struggle.
I personally wouldn't be waiting to find out. A decision had to be made by the police officer and I believe he made the correct one.
The criminal brought it all on himself. All of his own making.

Not all his making, he didn’t pull the trigger. Let’s not make sweeping statements that muddy the conversation.

What I’m asking, is say this all happened and cops successfully detained him anyway. Do you think the guy would be served the death penalty?

Afaik the death penalty is exceptionally rare and has narrowly focused criteria, which are not satisfied if nobody dies in the altercation or offenses. There is a lower standard if the perpetrator is acting in the furtherance of a Continuing Criminal Enterprise (no application on the night in question).

Can anyone point to a capital punishment case that set the death penalty for resisting arrest with a weapon?

Rodin

lawrencesummers wrote: »

They should update it to see if those people shoot a person running away...

He turned and fired...

Rodin

Overheal wrote: »

So the death penalty for assaulting a police officer?

With a tazer he stole from him while resisting arrest for being drunk at the wheel.

How do we know in the instant that he turned and fired that the shooting cop could be certain he hadn't taken his colleague's gun in the struggle.
I personally wouldn't be waiting to find out. A decision had to be made by the police officer and I believe he made the correct one.
The criminal brought it all on himself. All of his own making.

lawrencesummers

JJayoo wrote: »

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

Very good video If someone can embed.

They should update it to see if those people shoot a person running away...

lawrencesummers

vetinari wrote: »

Yeah, it's pretty stunning compared to say 10 years ago.
I left Ireland in 2006, been in Boston since. No one cared anywhere near this level of detail about internal US politics or incidents in 2006.
I do wonder if some of the posters on this site are actually Russian bots though. Also, having such strong pro police opinions about shootings when the Gardai are for the most part unarmed.

They're so similar to far right posters you'd see on reddit. They seem very out of place for Ireland considering the makeup of the Irish political parties.

A lot of that is media driven unfortunately, Trump Provides Easy headlines and plenty of clicks for media putlets over here, the reporting is never detailed or in depth, just a headline from whatever stupid thing he said at a press conference, never the actual full story.

Overheal

JJayoo wrote: »

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

Very good video If someone can embed.

Not really.

It's a parlor trick way of dazzling viewers eating dinner watching the evening news but that's about it. They sent in a rank amateur who didn't do any proper continuum of force, such as for the guy they roleplayed with the gun from behind the SUV, whereas a well trained officer would already be directing them not to face away etc. They also dress him like a woolly mammoth to imply to viewers that everyone cops run into is going to be immune to tasering. Not just cherrypicked but literally staged scenarios to put police in the best possible light.

Overheal

nullzero wrote: »

Maybe they need more funding to remedy this problem?

The funding is there, the appropriate allocation is not.

Overheal

ronivek wrote: »

And not just the death penalty (for which there are ways to subsequently avoid it); but summary execution decided by a single man.

No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

[N]or shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

ShatterAlan

Black man found hanging from a tree.

Don't quite know the full circunmstances yet but it took 12 days for an autopsy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA9AHZhOl18

JJayoo

https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

Very good video If someone can embed.

nullzero

Overheal wrote: »

If one drunk perp can stungun 2 officers and kill 1 with it before they can subdue them, then they certainly appear to be inadequately trained for the real world.

Maybe they need more funding to remedy this problem?

nullzero

Rodin wrote: »

He actually discharged the tazer at the cop.
Got what he deserved.

I'm not sure dying was what he deserved. However if you take a police officers weapon and discharge it at them, in America of all places then you can expect to be shot.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

He was defending himself?

Yes, he was in retreat even.

ronivek

Overheal wrote: »

So the death penalty for assaulting a police officer?

And not just the death penalty (for which there are ways to subsequently avoid it); but summary execution decided by a single man.

Overheal

Rodin wrote: »

He actually discharged the tazer at the cop.
Got what he deserved.

So the death penalty for assaulting a police officer?