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Child Item

Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

lawrencesummers

Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
Failed field sobriety test.
Tussled with cops.
Shot and killed.
Looks on the outset like another use of excessive Force by police, but there is so much more wrong with it.

One cop has been fired and the other is Put on leave.

Firing somebody that immediately and without due process is probably in a bid to quell the protests - (but it hasn’t) But it can’t be right, surely these matters need investigation, statements and the a just decision, which may well be dismissal / charges filed etc.

There is a big risk of the authorities in the USA actually losing their own police force if they don’t maintain the law and order and due process that everyone deserves. Has the cop in this instance actually violated the procedures That are given to him for arresting people? If a cop needs to be fired then fine, fire hundreds of them but only after due process.

RIP the victim, On his daughters birthday apparently.

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Stablelad123

Overheal wrote: »

They suspend officers for pending investigations. This lad was fired, straight out.

Incorrect. He was "removed from duty". Do some reading ffs.

y0ssar1an22

Overheal wrote: »

They did do wrong. They used excessive force for the situation and were fired.

the firing was 100% wrong as stated in the OP, without any form of due process.

if what they did is morally right/wrong is unfortunately irrelevant. were they within the police code of conduct is all that matters?

now, that is a different debate - whether that code needs to be changed or not.

walshb

punisher5112 wrote: »

Wrong, all that's about is the BLM rubbish going on

It absolutely is. It’s a disgrace that cops can be fired so quickly here based off mass hysteria and mob violence. It shows nothing but cowardice and lack of character for those who can so quickly turn on their own..

I am not saying they should not investigate, and then issue appropriate sanctions if necessary, but this knee jerk reaction to appease the mob is a sickening insult to those serving the state, the people and the uniform..

Overheal

Stablelad123 wrote: »

Incorrect. He was fired pending the outcome of an investigation. Given the timing it was the right thing to do. imo

They suspend officers for pending investigations. This lad was fired, straight out.

Overheal

punisher5112 wrote: »

Wrong, all that's about is the BLM rubbish going on

Negative.

Stablelad123

Overheal wrote: »

They did do wrong. They used excessive force for the situation and were fired.

Incorrect. He was fired pending the outcome of an investigation. Given the timing it was the right thing to do. imo

punisher5112

Overheal wrote: »

They did do wrong. They used excessive force for the situation and were fired.

Wrong, all that's about is the BLM rubbish going on

Overheal

punisher5112 wrote: »

They done nothing wrong, he could have easily got one of their guns.
What if he got a good punch and one hit their head off the ground... All bets were off as soon as he attacked.

They did do wrong. They used excessive force for the situation and were fired.

punisher5112

Overheal wrote: »

If the cops had brain cells he’d be alive and in custody.

They done nothing wrong, he could have easily got one of their guns.
What if he got a good punch and one hit their head off the ground... All bets were off as soon as he attacked.

punisher5112

vetinari wrote: »

Seriously? What kind of action movie are you living in?
Real life isn't GTA, nothing about the situation suggests he was going to carjack a car and go on some rampage.

Btw, here is a police officer in Seattle saying that a taser is not considered a deadly weapon
https://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2011/01/06/is-a-taser-attack-considered-an-attack-with-a-deadly-weapon/

The police officer was fired because his life was not in danger.
And again, this is real life. If Brooks somehow managed to get away, they have his details and his car. He's 99% likely to be apprehended the next day.

Well nothing suggested he would attack and rob their weapon....

But sure hell he did..... Anything could happen.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

He may have escaped. He was running at some pace, though given how drunk he was, he was as likely to run into a wall.

Any thing was possible up to the moment he pointed the weapon and forced them to shoot.

They weren’t forced but nice try at cleverness.

Overheal

Rows Grower wrote: »

If Rayshard had half a brain cell he'd still be alive.

If the cops had brain cells he’d be alive and in custody.

vetinari

Danzy wrote: »

When he pointed a weapon they had a right to defend their lives and an obligation to the public to stop him.

If he was left go, he may have robbed a car with that taser to pick up his daughter he may have killed someone drunk driving he may have beaten his daughter to death this time.

Seriously? What kind of action movie are you living in?
Real life isn't GTA, nothing about the situation suggests he was going to carjack a car and go on some rampage.

Btw, here is a police officer in Seattle saying that a taser is not considered a deadly weapon
https://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2011/01/06/is-a-taser-attack-considered-an-attack-with-a-deadly-weapon/

The police officer was fired because his life was not in danger.
And again, this is real life. If Brooks somehow managed to get away, they have his details and his car. He's 99% likely to be apprehended the next day.

Rows Grower

Overheal wrote: »

You have some imagination. How was he going to steal a car and drive it anywhere with the cops right behind him? Any bystander in the drive thru with half a brain cell had their doors locked.

If Rayshard had half a brain cell he'd still be alive.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

You have some imagination. How was he going to steal a car and drive it anywhere with the cops right behind him? Any bystander in the drive thru with half a brain cell had their doors locked.

He may have escaped. He was running at some pace, though given how drunk he was, he was as likely to run into a wall.

Any thing was possible up to the moment he pointed the weapon and forced them to shoot.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

When he pointed a weapon they had a right to defend their lives and an obligation to the public to stop him.

If he was left go, he may have robbed a car with that taser to pick up his daughter he may have killed someone drunk driving he may have beaten his daughter to death this time.

Thankfully it worked out with only the violent psycho dead.
His family and community are now safer.

You have some imagination. How was he going to steal a car and drive it anywhere with the cops right behind him? Any bystander in the drive thru with half a brain cell had their doors locked.

Stablelad123

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

was that not refuted given the fact he wasn't in control of the car? ie: it wasnt turned on?

but if what he did was enough to breach his bail conditions, you can see why resisted arrest and legged it.

They were in the process of chuffing him for DUI before he tried to leg it

Overheal

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

was that not refuted given the fact he wasn't in control of the car? ie: it wasnt turned on?

but if what he did was enough to breach his bail conditions, you can see why resisted arrest and legged it.

Asleep behind the wheel in the drive thru lane when trouble started so I’d say yeah

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Society holds people responsible for their own actions through, you guessed it, policing.

If police aren’t held accountable first and foremost how can they hope to hold anyone else accountable?

I’m a tax paying voter and I have every reason to hold my police force accountable.

When he pointed a weapon they had a right to defend their lives and an obligation to the public to stop him.

If he was left go, he may have robbed a car with that taser to pick up his daughter he may have killed someone drunk driving he may have beaten his daughter to death this time.

Thankfully it worked out with only the violent psycho dead.
His family and community are now safer. Which is a sad state of affairs to be in.

ronivek

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I asked because someone mentioned his family talking about how much of family man and great da he was , that doesn't really add up ,

Nothing to do with the shooting but a bit strange ,

I mean there are a lot of ways you could tell the story of those convictions.

If I wanted to paint him in a negative light I could go the whole child torture route; which is possible but I suspect would have led to more serious charges. Also would seem far fetched that a torturer would be allowed attend the birthday of his daughter and have his family speaking out after his death the way they did.

If I wanted to go way over the other end of the spectrum looking at those charges:
1) Guy could have made a stupid drunken decision to pull the badge off a police car.
2) Police take personal affront at his actions and assault him claiming he resisted arrest while conveniently forgetting to turn on their bodycams.
3) DA and Police conspire to throw the book at him.
4) Guy can't afford anything other than a public defender and ends up pleading guilty.
5) Guy is now an offender.
6) Has his kids at home cooking them dinner.
7) Is late bringing them home and wife comes over accusing him and slapping him.
8) He restrains her and leaves some bruises on her.
9) She calls police, they arrive and see the bruises, children, and his record; and they crucify him.

Now I'm not saying either of those is the real truth here; but equally I don't think you can say that either option is impossible based on what we've seen from the USA even very recently.

We simply don't know; but certain people are assuming the extremely negative end of the scale without any of the facts.

y0ssar1an22

Overheal wrote: »

DUI/DWI yeah.

was that not refuted given the fact he wasn't in control of the car? ie: it wasnt turned on?

but if what he did was enough to breach his bail conditions, you can see why resisted arrest and legged it.

y0ssar1an22

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I asked because someone mentioned his family talking about how much of family man and great da he was , that doesn't really add up ,

Nothing to do with the shooting but a bit strange ,

they were. the usual platitudes that dead people receive.

think it was his brother also reached out to celebrities, to contact him directly with any financial aid (that was from the press conference).

There were maybe 10-15 family members, 2 solicitors as well.

as an aside, the solicitor presented a picture of another car with a bullet hole that the cops hit by accident, while also stating that they didnt wish to go into specifics on the case.

yourdeadwright

ronivek wrote: »

Why does it matter when considering the shooting incident?

For what it's worth here is his list of convictions:

There are a number of ways you could interpret those convictions.

One interpretation might be that he was refusing to let his child/children return to their mother for some reason and he got into a physical confrontation with her which led to police involvement; and since he had previous convictions the book was thrown at him.

I haven't seen any of the details of the cases (and I don't believe anyone else has either) so it's all just speculation.

Again though; why does it matter when discussing the shooting?

I asked because someone mentioned his family talking about how much of family man and great da he was , that doesn't really add up ,

Nothing to do with the shooting but a bit strange ,

Overheal

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

for what he did up to the point of resisting arrest, would that have been enough to breach his bail conditions? i have no clue.

DUI/DWI yeah.

y0ssar1an22

Stablelad123 wrote: »

Do you think the fact that he was out on probation had something to do with it?

for what he did up to the point of resisting arrest, would that have been enough to breach his bail conditions? i have no clue.

walshb

ronivek wrote: »

Why does it matter when considering the shooting incident?

For what it's worth here is his list of convictions:

There are a number of ways you could interpret those convictions.

One interpretation might be that he was refusing to let his child/children return to their mother for some reason and he got into a physical confrontation with her which led to police involvement.

I haven't seen any of the details of the cases (and I don't believe anyone else has either) so it's all just speculation.

Again though; why does it matter when discussing the shooting?

It does matter to paint a picture of what type character the cops were dealing with....

And his character shone through on Friday night....

ronivek

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Are the rumours he was on parole for beating his kids ?

Why does it matter when considering the shooting incident?

For what it's worth here is his list of convictions:

OFFENSE: simple battery
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/31/2014
SENTENCE LENGTH: 0 YEARS, 12 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: cruelty to children
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/31/2014
SENTENCE LENGTH: 0 YEARS, 12 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: FALSE IMPRISONMENT
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/31/2014
SENTENCE LENGTH: 7 YEARS, 0 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: family violence battery
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/31/2014
SENTENCE LENGTH: 0 YEARS, 12 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: THEFT BY REC STOLEN PROP
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/02/2013
SENTENCE LENGTH: 7 YEARS, 0 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: CRMNL INTERFERE GOVT PROP
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/02/2013
SENTENCE LENGTH: 5 YEARS, 0 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

OFFENSE: obstr of law enf officer
CRIME COMMIT DATE: 03/02/2013
SENTENCE LENGTH: 0 YEARS, 12 MONTHS, 0 DAYS

There are a number of ways you could interpret those convictions.

One interpretation might be that he was refusing to let his child/children return to their mother for some reason and he got into a physical confrontation with her which led to police involvement; and since he had previous convictions the book was thrown at him.

I haven't seen any of the details of the cases (and I don't believe anyone else has either) so it's all just speculation.

Again though; why does it matter when discussing the shooting?

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Society holds people responsible for their own actions through, you guessed it, policing.

If police aren’t held accountable first and foremost how can they hope to hold anyone else accountable?

I’m a tax paying voter and I have every reason to hold my police force accountable.

They tried to arrest him and hold him responsible but he made it violent, He made those choices,

What was he on parole for do you know ?

Overheal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do you hold anyone responsible for there own actions or just Police ?

Society holds people responsible for their own actions through, you guessed it, policing.

If police aren’t held accountable first and foremost how can they hope to hold anyone else accountable?

I’m a tax paying voter and I have every reason to hold my police force accountable.

yourdeadwright

ronivek wrote: »

Then the second cop shoots him as he now has acquired a lethal weapon and has already fired a taser so it's pretty reasonable to assume he might fire the gun.

But he didn't have a gun. He was nowhere near having a gun; he was several meters away from the officer and running in the opposite direction when he was shot.

"Holding people responsible" in this case means arrest and prosecution. That's how the justice system in the USA and pretty much every other country on the planet operates; it doesn't operate some sort of Judge Dredd on-the-spot execution system.

He had a Taser which is a weapon, which he pointed at the police, he acquired it from wrestling and punching the police men ,

It was non violent arrest until he made it violent, because he knew the arrest as a parole violation ,