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PlayStation 5 - Now with FAQ in OP.

shuffles03

Mark Cerny has been showing off the dev kit:

https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console

PS5 FAQ:
https://blog.playstation.com/2020/11/09/ps5-the-ultimate-faq/#sf239758641

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martyos121

challengemaster wrote: »

Unsure why people think the digital version will be the cheaper & stripped down version of the two. I'd actually expect the opposite.

I'd say the digital version will get the larger 1.65Tb SSD , the disc version gets the 865Gb SSD - That's what gives Sony the best monetary outcome here, people who want more games and the bigger hard drive get pushed towards digital only purchases and diminishes the resale market. It also just makes sense - give the larger hard drive to the people who will download all their games.

Well even as someone who doesn’t buy discs anymore, I think it’d be crazy for them to charge the same amount if not more for a console that locks away the entire pre-owned market from you, as well as 4K Blu Ray movies. They need to incentivise the digital model and a bigger hard-drive alone won’t do that IMO. The price must be enticing for it to succeed.

As for feature stripping, yeah it’s unlikely now that I think more about it, but unless the digital model comes with an extra controller or accessory of some kind as a sweetener, it’s still the lesser SKU of the two. It either needs to be cheaper or offer equal value in some way to split the sales evenly across both units, unless production itself isn’t split evenly between the two.

shaveAbullock

Do UHD Blu Rays sell well?
It's mostly streaming services now and I know you need at least 25Mbit internet to stream UHD but people with slower internet seem happy enoung with 1080p.

Wing126

challengemaster wrote: »

You must be having a laugh, latest leak showing $699 price point

There's an Amazon.fr "leak" showing €499.99 too.

Dayjur

How will you play your backwards compatible discs without a drive? the digital version is pointless

Wing126

Dayjur wrote: »

How will you play your backwards compatible discs without a drive? the digital version is pointless

It's really not pointless at all, it gives people choice. The type of people who are going to by the Digital version are the type of people who don't buy discs in the first place.

shaveAbullock

Exactly, some people have not purchased discs for years now, they can log in and play their whole ps4 catalogue on the ps5.

challengemaster

I don't think I could name a single person that I know who's bought a Blu Ray since they came out, I really can't see it being as big a deciding factor as you're making out on here. Especially with 4k streaming on multiple platforms now. DVD sales dropped nearly 90% in the last 15 years. Blu Ray only makes up about $1bn of the $25bn market share of media consumption, and 4k bluray is only 5% of all physical media sales. There's nowhere near sizable enough to even be a consideration.

Revoker88

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Do UHD Blu Rays sell well?
It's mostly streaming services now and I know you need at least 25Mbit internet to stream UHD but people with slower internet seem happy enoung with 1080p.

I wouldn't be buying a ton of them but for certain movies I'd be happy to pay for a really top quality copy.

challengemaster wrote: »

I don't think I could name a single person that I know who's bought a Blu Ray since they came out, I really can't see it being as big a deciding factor as you're making out on here. Especially with 4k streaming on multiple platforms now. DVD sales dropped nearly 90% in the last 15 years. Blu Ray only makes up about $1bn of the $25bn market share of media consumption, and 4k bluray is only 5% of all physical media sales. There's nowhere near sizable enough to even be a consideration.

Don't think anyone is saying its a deciding factor for anyone other than themselves. For people who would like the blu Ray option and have PS4 disc based library it is an important factor.

So yeah ymmv in how much these features will mean to you personally.

JeffKenna

Varik wrote: »

Not used prime lately but Amazon have gotten abysmally slow for normal delivery to Ireland, takes them a week to even ship it the order let alone the time it take to get here.

If you were going Amazon you'd probably be better ordering using prime to Parcel motel or Address pal. If I'd to guess I'd say Parcel motel as they're in the North so it'll be in the north launch day and maybe at a locker that evening.

Just a word of warning, I got my PS4 through parcel motel but the packaging was so big it ended up being oversized!

xtal191

challengemaster wrote: »

Unsure why people think the digital version will be the cheaper & stripped down version of the two. I'd actually expect the opposite.

I'd say the digital version will get the larger 1.65Tb SSD , the disc version gets the 865Gb SSD - That's what gives Sony the best monetary outcome here, people who want more games and the bigger hard drive get pushed towards digital only purchases and diminishes the resale market. It also just makes sense - give the larger hard drive to the people who will download all their games.

I def agree and think the digital version will have the larger SSD too but I've a feeling they'll both be the exact same price in the hope that people will be swayed by the larger SSD and buy the Digital one.

Varik

A larger SSD isn't as easy as people are making it out to be.

The PS5 uses a custom controller that has 12 channels which is on the large side for consumer, and there's no chance they're changing that for 2 skus with separate controllers and if they somehow decided to it won't be 24 and maybe 18/20 so not 2x the size if they kept the rest in toe. So either they double up per channel with 2 dies or they increase the die size, and they may already be using 2 die per channel. In one situation doubling the size more than doubles the price and in the other it's slower.

[Deleted User]

challengemaster wrote: »

You must be having a laugh, latest leak showing $699 price point

Placeholders are usually priced too high rather than too low.

Revoker88

No Xbox Series X price yet either,I feel like both companies are playing chicken with pricing.

Nobody wants to go first for fear of the other under cutting in some way.

Looking at the hardware I feel the Xbox should be more expensive but the SSD may cost Sony a bit more than MS given how the PS5 has features tied to the SSD and the Xbox would seem to be more off the shelf storage so possibly cheaper.

Wing126

EoinHef wrote: »

No Xbox Series X price yet either,I feel like both companies are playing chicken with pricing.

Nobody wants to go first for fear of the other under cutting in some way.

Looking at the hardware I feel the Xbox should be more expensive but the SSD may cost Sony a bit more than MS given how the PS5 has features tied to the SSD and the Xbox would seem to be more off the shelf storage so possibly cheaper.

The Series X has a proprietary SSD actually - https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/16/21181854/microsoft-xbox-series-x-expansion-cards-removable-storage-support-features

So it could be as expensive, but will likely be easier to get extra memory that works as well as the included memory.

Whereas Sony's extra SSD customisation might make it a little harder to find memory that will work as well as the included one - https://www.vg247.com/2020/03/18/ps5-expandable-storage-usb-m2-ssd/

MrStuffins

Is it just me who reckons €499 is wishful thinking?

They're operating in a market where people will replace their €1,000 smartphone every twelve months. For a piece of hardware that should last a few years, people will pay €600 - €700 in the current climate in my opinion.

€499 seems a little on the cheap side.

Royal Irish

MrStuffins wrote: »

Is it just me who reckons €499 is wishful thinking?

They're operating in a market where people will replace their €1,000 smartphone every twelve months. For a piece of hardware that should last a few years, people will pay €600 - €700 in the current climate in my opinion.

€499 seems a little on the cheap side.

The current climate of mass unemployment? :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

Royal Irish wrote: »

The current climate of mass unemployment? :rolleyes:

Most of the unemployment is temporary. A lot of people will be back to buying iPhones by the end of the year.

The economy was in a bad state when PS4 launched. Demand was huge.

Cienciano

martyos121 wrote: »

Haven’t bought a PS4 disc in about three years I’d say so I’ll be very tempted by a digital only model if the price difference is big enough. You’d hope the only thing missing from that one is the disc drive, and that they don’t strip other features too to lower the cost.

Same here. I end up paying more in some cases for a digital version. I can't be bothered with discs anymore

shaveAbullock

Cienciano wrote: »

Same here. I end up paying more in some cases for a digital version. I can't be bothered with discs anymore

The price is the only reason I still buy discs. Should still workout cheaper in the long run even if the ps5 with a disc drive is more expensive.
The main problem is the disc version of big releases being in short supply and selling out.

SureYWouldntYa

MrStuffins wrote: »

Is it just me who reckons €499 is wishful thinking?

They're operating in a market where people will replace their €1,000 smartphone every twelve months. For a piece of hardware that should last a few years, people will pay €600 - €700 in the current climate in my opinion.

€499 seems a little on the cheap side.

You use your phone constantly though, all day long for so many different things

You play games on a PS5, or to paraphrase Microsoft last gen it's also an entertainment device

If it is €499 you cant do much for that price, you have to buy a PS Plus sub every year and how many games a year as well, €499 is only the start of what you pay relating to the PS5

challengemaster

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

If it is €499 you cant do much for that price, you have to buy a PS Plus sub every year and how many games a year as well, €499 is only the start of what you pay relating to the PS5

Sure, but you wouldn't get a PC capable of 8K with ray tracing / 4k@120 and a huge SSD for anywhere near that price, and I say that as someone who's been building and gaming on PC's for over 15 years now. The graphics card alone would be more than that.

I think the point being made wasn't necessarily smart phones, but more dropping €1k on consumer electronics isn't such a foreign idea when you look at dropping €500 on a smart watch, €150+ on headphones. Especially since people are just accepting the price creep on things like phones, the fact that the top spec phone you can get is around €1600. I think €499 is really optimistic for the ps5, especially when it's going to last another 5-7 years.

.G.

shaveAbullock wrote: »

The price is the only reason I still buy discs. Should still workout cheaper in the long run even if the ps5 with a disc drive is more expensive.
The main problem is the disc version of big releases being in short supply and selling out.

Me too. I still think its mental that digital versions are dearer than physical copies. On the flip side I have a gaming PC and all games on that are digital only and you have so many key sellers and different digital shops available that you can buy most new release games for very good prices. If that was the case with PS games I'd 100% get a digital only PS5. Maybe there are good sites for PS game keys but any sites I use for PC games don't seem to be great for console game keys.

SureYWouldntYa

challengemaster wrote: »

Sure, but you wouldn't get a PC capable of 8K with ray tracing / 4k@120 and a huge SSD for anywhere near that price, and I say that as someone who's been building and gaming on PC's for over 15 years now. The graphics card alone would be more than that.

I think the point being made wasn't necessarily smart phones, but more dropping €1k on consumer electronics isn't such a foreign idea when you look at dropping €500 on a smart watch, €150+ on headphones. Especially since people are just accepting the price creep on things like phones, the fact that the top spec phone you can get is around €1600. I think €499 is really optimistic for the ps5, especially when it's going to last another 5-7 years.

I'm not saying you weren't off with the price point but a phone is a flat cost that's used more while the min base cost of the PS5 is the cost of the console which on its own is useless, it's not a fair comparison I think

I know less than nothing about graphics cards but I'm assuming what a customer can buy and what Sony can commit for X million of for production is a different price altogether, and Sony aren't just looking to make money every time they sell a PS5 cause if you don't buy one then you don't buy a PS Plus sub and xyz on the store from them

Mr Crispy

Matt MacLaurin is the VP of UX Design at PlayStation. Someone on Resetera spotted that he's been replying to a couple of questions on LinkedIn about the PS5. Basically, the new console will feature a "complete rearchitecting of the user interface”.

[Deleted User]

I believe that if you want to understand console pricing and adoption, look at consoles. Not phones.

It's not like there is a shortage of data.

quokula

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe that if you want to understand console pricing and adoption, look at consoles. Not phones.

It's not like there is a shortage of data.

Yeah but you can’t just take a round number from previous console releases and ignore inflation that has happened since then.

This is where mobile phones are a good marker - the flagship iPhone at the time the PS4 launched was $650 while the flagship iPhone today starts at $1100 - Apple have mitigated that somewhat by expanding their range with lower spec models using the previous year’s hardware but even those cost more than the top of the range did 6 years ago.

Obviously the lower the price the better, but I’m keeping an open mind. €600 would probably be no more significant an expense to me today than €400 was 7 years ago.

shaveAbullock

I know it's not the best comparison as developing for PC is very different than developing for console.
But if you look at the raw performance numbers, last time the PS4 was on par with a mid ranged PC with a $200 GPU.
This time raw performance is much closer to a current fairly high spec $450 GPU.
While AMD has made some great progress and that will help reduce cost.
Regardless of what you may think the retail price will be I think it is clear that the production cost will be significantly more expensive for the coming generation of consoles.

challengemaster

shaveAbullock wrote: »

This time raw performance is much closer to a current fairly high spec $450 GPU.
.

Nope, not even close. It's well surpassed the top of the line $1200 GPUs on the market. There's not a consumer grade GPU available that would manage 4K @120fps. You're actually talking about running dual 2080Ti's to get stable FPS that high - that's about $2500 worth of GPU power alone. You'd nearly need to double that value to run the other components to not bottleneck those GPUs.

shaveAbullock

challengemaster wrote: »

Nope, not even close. It's well surpassed the top of the line $1200 GPUs on the market. There's not a consumer grade GPU available that would manage 4K @120fps. You're actually talking about running dual 2080Ti's to get stable FPS that high - that's about $2500 worth of GPU power alone. You'd need to double that value to run the other components to not bottleneck those GPUs.

We have no idea what frame rate the ps5 can get on visually impressive game at 4k. it wouldn't be anywhere near 120 fps. Sony will be aiming for 60 fps with dynamic 4k resolution.

The 4k 120hz is the specification of the hdmi port.

All we have right now is the raw power in teraflops
PS5 = 10.28 putting it slightly ahead of a rx 5700 xt in raw performance.

Mr Crispy

Watch the Digital Foundry analysis. 4K 120 FPS isn't going to happen for the vast majority of titles. Even 60 FPS will need eye candy to be reduced.