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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

lawrencesummers

Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
Failed field sobriety test.
Tussled with cops.
Shot and killed.
Looks on the outset like another use of excessive Force by police, but there is so much more wrong with it.

One cop has been fired and the other is Put on leave.

Firing somebody that immediately and without due process is probably in a bid to quell the protests - (but it hasn’t) But it can’t be right, surely these matters need investigation, statements and the a just decision, which may well be dismissal / charges filed etc.

There is a big risk of the authorities in the USA actually losing their own police force if they don’t maintain the law and order and due process that everyone deserves. Has the cop in this instance actually violated the procedures That are given to him for arresting people? If a cop needs to be fired then fine, fire hundreds of them but only after due process.

RIP the victim, On his daughters birthday apparently.

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Rodin

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Have you read about Breonna Taylor? She was asleep.

Her killing was completely unjustified.

This killing wasn't and if the guy had simply complied he'd still be alive today.

Each case has to be judge on its merits.
Not all cases with a black victim and white cop are the same. BLM would like you to think they are.

frag420

NotMOL wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the Wendy's staff would've doing the same if it was a white person, you're also ignoring the fact that there is a good chance that the staff in that Wendy's who called the cops are black themselves.

But at the end of the day you have no proof for your claim...all you're doing is making assumptions. But what we do have is video proof of the suspect being drunk in his car, then resisting arrest, stealing the officers weapon and then pointing it at them

:rolleyes:

NotMOL

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Even people who don’t live in the real world can see that there are two cops, ain’t nobody paralysing two cops with one taser while running away drunk.

But why would the cops take these chances and trust the suspect? he had already proven himself to be violent by resisting arrest, stealing their weapon and then pointing the weapon at them.

Cops are killed very regularly in America https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/2019-officers-killed-trnd/index.html

castletownman

frag420 wrote: »

What was he suspected off, being asleep with intent to snore?

He was non violent up until the police decided to cuff him without prior warning as is due course in a non confrontational scenario such as this.

Do you expect the victim to trust them not to kill him despite all that has been going on the last few weeks?

For DUI, which the cop calmly tells him before handcuffing him. You know it was for that so stop trying to say otherwise.

I bet you would be outraged if someone was drink driving on a road near your house and caused an accident.

And because George Floyd got unneccessarily murdered, every other police officer should now allow suspects willy-nilly resist arrest?

NotMOL

frag420 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Yep exactly you have nothing to back up your claims

lawrencesummers

NotMOL wrote: »

But why would the cops take these chances and trust the suspect? he had already proven himself to be violent by resisting arrest, stealing their weapon and then pointing the weapon at them.

Cops are killed very regularly in America https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/2019-officers-killed-trnd/index.html

People on this thread keep bringing up the number of police fatalities.
If you want to bring that up then tell me how many cops are killed in the Us by people running away from them that fire non lethal weapons in their direction?

Is it none?

lawrencesummers

castletownman wrote: »

For DUI, which the cop calmly tells him before handcuffing him. You know it was for that so stop trying to say otherwise.

I bet you would be outraged if someone was drink driving on a road near your house and caused an accident.

And because George Floyd got unneccessarily murdered, every other police officer should now allow suspects willy-nilly resist arrest?

The punishment for resisting arrest isn’t death.

lawrencesummers

Rodin wrote: »

Her killing was completely unjustified.

This killing wasn't and if the guy had simply complied he'd still be alive today.

Each case has to be judge on its merits.
Not all cases with a black victim and white cop are the same. BLM would like you to think they are.

I can do my own thinking without BLM.
I fail to see the justification for this killing, as far as I’m concerned it’s unjustifiable, a non lethal weapon in the hands of an absconder is not an imminent threat to your life.

walshb

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The punishment for resisting arrest isn’t death.

Nobody is arguing that it should be..

frag420

castletownman wrote: »

For DUI, which the cop calmly tells him before handcuffing him. You know it was for that so stop trying to say otherwise.

depends on the state law, have a read of this...

https://dui.drivinglaws.org/resource...ile-drunk.html

Can I Get a DUI for Sitting in a Parked Car While Drunk?

The DUI laws of many states apply if you were in "actual physical control" of a vehicle—even if you weren’t actually driving.
By Joshua Egan

Do you have pending DUI charges?
Driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs is illegal in every state. But what if you get caught drunk behind the wheel of a parked car? It surprises many drivers (especially those who pull over to "sleep it off") to learn that the DUI laws of most states also prohibit drivers from "operating" or being in "actual physical control" of a car while under the influence. In other words, you can get a DUI without actually driving.

Operating or in Actual Physical Control
In states that don’t require actual driving for a DUI conviction, the prosecution still needs to prove the motorist was operating or in actual physical control of a vehicle. (Learn about all the elements of a DUI that the prosecution has to prove.)

State laws differ, but most states require juries to look at the "totality of the circumstances" to determine whether the drunk motorist was operating or in actual physical control of the vehicle. In other words, the jury is supposed to consider all the surrounding circumstances. These often include the:

location of the driver

location of the car

location of the keys

whether the car’s engine was running, and

whether the driver was awake or asleep.

Basically, a jury will be asked to decide whether the motorist was close enough to being able to set the car in motion that it presented a danger to the public.

Location of the Driver
A driver’s physical proximity to the vehicle—more specifically, the ignition of the vehicle—is an important consideration in determining whether the driver was operating or in actual physical control. The closer the driver was to being able to start up the car, the more likely the jury is to convict. So, for instance, the chances of conviction are higher for a motorist who was in the driver’s seat than a motorist who was asleep in the backseat.

Location of the Car
Car location is another key factor juries consider. If you were parked in your own driveway, you might escape responsibility. But a jury isn’t likely to be sympathetic to a motorist found parked in the middle of a roadway or on a sidewalk downtown. Basically, the car's location gives the jury an indication of whether the person was driving before police showed up and how much of a risk the person posed to the public.

Location of the Keys
Most cars require keys to start the engine. So, the location of the keys is important for assessing whether the driver was operating or in actual physical control of the vehicle. If the driver didn't have keys readily accessible, a jury might be unwilling to convict. But a driver who had the keys within reach or in the ignition won’t likely fare well with this issue at trial.

Whether the Car’s Engine Was Running
Being caught with the car engine running generally hurts a motorist’s chances of beating a DUI charge. With the engine running, the motorist is just a step away from putting the car in gear and driving away. However, other circumstances, including the driver's location, might also come into play here. For example, a motorist who was found asleep in the back seat on a cold night might be able to convince a jury that it was necessary to keep the engine running for heating the interior of the car.

Whether the Driver Was Awake or Asleep
Some states have a bright-line rule that says a driver must be awake to be operating or in actual physical control of a vehicle. But in most states, whether a driver was awake or asleep is just another factor for the jury to consider in looking at the overall situation.

NotMOL wrote: »

Yep exactly you have nothing to back up your claims

Neither do you

NotMOL

Also he wasn't just sleeping in his car like some people in here are saying he was.

He was passed out in his par and blocking the drive thru, so it was 100% justified for the Wendy's staff to call the police. The staff in Wendy's are paid like **** so do you think they will put themselves in danger to argue with a drunk? it's safer for them to call the police

BorneTobyWilde

What bull, he was parked. Said he'd happily walk home, but they kept pushing and pushing. Determined to harass him and arrest him for no reason.
If he was dropped off to collect car like he said and then wanted to sleep it off what crime is that. When he offered to leave car there, they could have agreed, and even offered him a lift home. DE-ESCALATION !! But no cops love to ESCALATE all the time.

frag420

NotMOL wrote: »

Also he wasn't just sleeping in his car like some people in here are saying he was.

He was passed out in his par and blocking the drive thru, so it was 100% justified for the Wendy's staff to call the police. The staff in Wendy's are paid like **** so do you think they will put themselves in danger to argue with a drunk? it's safer for them to call the police

What the difference between being asleep and being passed out

How could one tell from inside a Wendys or outside a car?

BorneTobyWilde

He could have been picked up the following day, let him run. Surely the first thing they did when arrived was identify him.

NotMOL

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What bull, he was parked. Said he'd happily walk home, but they kept pushing and pushing. Determined to harass him and arrest him for no reason.
If he was dropped off to collect car like he said and then wanted to sleep it off what crime is that. When he offered to leave car there, they could have agreed, and even offered him a lift home. DE-ESCALATION !! But no cops love to ESCALATE all the time.

He was parked in the drive thru so he obviously drove the car somewhat for it to end up in the drive thru....that is a clear cut DUI and you expect the police to allow to him to just walk home after drinking and driving??

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/atlanta-police-shooting-wendys/index.html

"The incident began with a call to police at 10:33 p.m. Friday about a man sleeping in a parked vehicle in the restaurant's drive-thru lane""

lawrencesummers

walshb wrote: »

Nobody is arguing that it should be..

Justifying it is the same thing.

BorneTobyWilde

NotMOL wrote: »

He was parked in the drive thru so he obviously drove the car somewhat for it to end up in the drive thru....that is a clear cut DUI and you expect the police to allow to him to just walk home after drinking and driving??

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/atlanta-police-shooting-wendys/index.html

"The incident began with a call to police at 10:33 p.m. Friday about a man sleeping in a parked vehicle in the restaurant's drive-thru lane""

Besides the point. You never shoot to kill a person just for running away, you chase, and if you can't catch him pick him up at his home following day.

frag420

NotMOL wrote: »

He was parked in the drive thru so he obviously drove the car somewhat for it to end up in the drive thru....that is a clear cut DUI and you expect the police to allow to him to just walk home after drinking and driving??

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/atlanta-police-shooting-wendys/index.html

"The incident began with a call to police at 10:33 p.m. Friday about a man sleeping in a parked vehicle in the restaurant's drive-thru lane""

From that very link...

"The eyewitness told CNN that by the time they arrived on the scene, Brooks' car was parked in a parking spot"

I think we need to know who moved it? Was it the victim who moved it or Wendys staff, who?

joe40

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

He could have been picked up the following day, let him run. Surely the first thing they did when arrived was identify him.

Exactly, no room for common sense, de escalation.

I actually wonder have all the macho cop show's over the years have fed this ethos. I know that is simplistic but other developed nation's have police forces and deal with crime but the level of police killings in America are multiples of other developed nation's.

mynamejeff

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

He could have been picked up the following day, let him run. Surely the first thing they did when arrived was identify him.

picked up the next day for DUI ?

after resisting arrest and stealing a police weapon .

NotMOL

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Besides the point. You never shoot to kill a person just for running away, you chase, and if you can't catch him pick him up at his home following day.

You make it seem like he was out for a jog or something and the cops were chasing after him for the fun of it.

He violently resisted arrest and then pointed a weapon at the cops

frag420

NotMOL wrote: »

You make it seem like he was out for a jog or something and the cops were chasing after him for the fun of it.

He violently resisted arrest and then pointed a weapon at the cops

How ****ing tonne deaf are you?

In light of my infraction (deserved) I feel I should add some context here, I said the above with respect to the recent killing of a blackman in America that was just out for a jog and was chased down and killed and I felt that the comment was a little crass and insensitive...

Apologies to NotMol

no.8

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

What bull, he was parked. Said he'd happily walk home, but they kept pushing and pushing. Determined to harass him and arrest him for no reason. If he was dropped off to collect car like he said and then wanted to sleep it off what crime is that. When he offered to leave car there, they could have agreed, and even offered him a lift home. DE-ESCALATION !! But no cops love to ESCALATE all the time.

So it's ok to drink drive? 'Ah sure it's grand....sure you weren't likely to wipe out anybody else on the road'

Tragic outcome this but I'd be waiting until we know THE FACTS (yes they used to be important before trial by social media)

NotMOL

frag420 wrote: »

How ****ing tonne deaf are you?

"You never shoot to kill a person just for running away"

The poster conveniently forgot to mention that the suspect turned around mid chase and aimed the weapon at the police officer.

frag420

NotMOL wrote: »

"You never shoot to kill a person just for running away"

The poster conveniently forgot to mention that the suspect turned around mid chase and aimed the weapon at the police officer.

I know you are referring t the police however in light of a recent killing of a blackman in America that was just out for a jog I think that your comment was a little crass...

False Prophet

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What bull, he was parked. Said he'd happily walk home, but they kept pushing and pushing. Determined to harass him and arrest him for no reason.
If he was dropped off to collect car like he said and then wanted to sleep it off what crime is that. When he offered to leave car there, they could have agreed, and even offered him a lift home. DE-ESCALATION !! But no cops love to ESCALATE all the time.

No reason? You expected them to leave a person blocking a drive through? If not drunk then might need medical assistance, if drunk could wake up and drive off and kill himself and others.
He escalated it by resisting arrest not the police who are risking their lives trying to do a their job every day.

Now that said , I disagree with them shooting the man. How far could a drunk man get to. There was 2 or more officers on the scene he couldn't taser both. Why not fire a warning shot. Why not aim to wound.

frag420

no.8 wrote: »

So it's ok to drink drive? 'Ah sure it's grand....sure you weren't likely to wipe out anybody else on the road'

Tragic outcome this but I'd be waiting until we know THE FACTS (yes they used to be important before trial by social media)

Bit according to the link that NotMol posted, when the police arrived the car was not in the drive thru and was parked in a parking spot!?

So did the victim park the car himself? Was it someone else who did it in which case how did they get control of the car from the victim?

frag420

False Prophet wrote: »

No reason? You expected them to leave a person blocking a drive through? If not drunk then might need medical assistance, if drunk could wake up and drive off and kill himself and others.
He escalated it by resisting arrest not the police who are risking their lives trying to do a their job every day.

Now that said , I disagree with them shooting the man. How far could a drunk man get to. There was 2 or more officers on the scene he couldn't taser both. Why not fire a warning shot. Why not aim to wound.

As already said, when the police arrived he was not blocking anyone, the car was parked in a parking spot.

Here is the link again, 12th paragraph...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/atlanta-police-shooting-wendys/index.html

BorneTobyWilde

mynamejeff wrote: »

picked up the next day for DUI ?

after resisting arrest and stealing a police weapon .

yep, anything.

BorneTobyWilde

Funny how they always go for a kill shot with a black man. Trained not to, but it's always head and chest shots. A bullet to the leg stops anyone.