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Nvidia RTX Discussion

K.O.Kiki

A new era in 3D graphics stands before us.

First-gen Raytracing GPUs:

Nvidia "Turing" - Quadro RTX 5000 / 6000 / 8000 (US$ 2'300 / 6'300 / 10'000)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13214/nvidia-reveals-next-gen-turing-gpu-architecture
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13217/nvidia-announces-turing-powered-quadro-rtx-family

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Serephucus

We're still dealing with late-stage ES stuff at this point, so clock won't be final. 30% is less than I would have expected for raster though, but RT will be the main one. Is Control at 144 FPS too much to ask?

BloodBath

30% rasterisation improvement is not that impressive but nice all the same.

It's the other RT and Tensor improvements I'm interested in.

K.O.Kiki

First possible DX12 leaks, holy moly!

Cordell

The rendering pipeline is mostly single precision floating point. Tensor cores are the equivalent of SSE/AVX to the CUDA cores - they are very fast with matrices operations, but they don't replace the CUDA cores, they complement them.

Cuddlesworth

Cordell wrote: »

No, it means they will split the GPU in 2 chips, one generic non RT GPU and one tensor cores / RT co-processor. Which makes a lot of sense if they can interconnect them with a fast bus.
The generic math co processor cannot be separated from the CPU, it's not a distinct unit anymore and connecting it via PCI Express is not possible, it's way too slow. The GPU itself can be considered to be a math coprocessor, but with very specific functions and functionality.

Thats pretty much what I was saying. From what I understand, Game Engines use mostly integer calculations, while general purpose compute it depends on the requirements. In Turing, they reduced the floating point performance of the Cuda core infrastructure, moving it to the Tensor cores as dedicated co-processers and using gamers to justify the R&D to do so.

I remember somebody in the tech community saying at the RTX launch that once the product is in the market and the chips fabbed out, they will end up moving them into their own chip to reduce manufacturing costs for gaming cards.

Cordell

No, it means they will split the GPU in 2 chips, one generic non RT GPU and one tensor cores / RT co-processor. Which makes a lot of sense if they can interconnect them with a fast bus.
The generic math co processor cannot be separated from the CPU, it's not a distinct unit anymore and connecting it via PCI Express is not possible, it's way too slow. The GPU itself can be considered to be a math coprocessor, but with very specific functions and functionality.

Cuddlesworth

If I'm not mistaken, that means they are pulling the maths co-processors cores out into their own chip?

Revoker88

So we may have the reason for the double sided cooler...

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/73209/geforce-rtx-3080-and-3090-rumored-to-pack-traversal-coprocessor/index.html

Cuddlesworth

BloodBath wrote: »

No way is the 3090 going to be anywhere near that cheap if it's the titan replacement which it seems to be.

It's supposed to be a 850mm square die with 24GB of GDDR6. Expect at least 3 grand.

To quote this forum, well worth the extra xxx euros in my book.

BloodBath

Venom wrote: »

I just can't see Nvidia selling their latest card for less than it's current gen version considering how much they jacked up pricing for the 10XX and 20XX GPU's compared to the 970 and 980 cards. My bet for the upcoming partner cards is €600-700 for the 3070, €800-900 for the 3080 and €1000-1300 for the 3090.

No way is the 3090 going to be anywhere near that cheap if it's the titan replacement which it seems to be.

It's supposed to be a 850mm square die with 24GB of GDDR6. Expect at least 3 grand.

K.O.Kiki

More industry insight from Igor's Lab: https://www.igorslab.de/en/nvidias-possible-timetable-until-the-launch-of-the-force-rtx-3090-and3080-working-designation-new-cooler-in-multiple-variants-in-test/

Venom

BloodBath wrote: »

No idea. I can't see it costing that much if they are mass producing them.

350w is crying out for water cooling though. Custom loop even better.

Let's hope it's more competitive on the 3070-3080 level cards along with AMD's RDNA2. The 3090 is for pro workstation users or gamers with more money than sense.

Serephucus wrote: »

Yup. I'm hoping We get the 3070 for €400. More realistically it'll be €450-500. It depends how scared they are of RDNA 2 really.

I just can't see Nvidia selling their latest card for less than it's current gen version considering how much they jacked up pricing for the 10XX and 20XX GPU's compared to the 970 and 980 cards. My bet for the upcoming partner cards is €600-700 for the 3070, €800-900 for the 3080 and €1000-1300 for the 3090.

Serephucus

Tom's is guessing 800+ for the full GA100, 500 for 102 (3090), and 370 for 103 (3080). Seems a little pie in the sky, but maybe they've done some napkin maths.

ED E

BloodBath wrote: »

No idea. I can't see it costing that much if they are mass producing them.

Do we know the die size? Thatll be the biggest impact on cost (and VRM size).

BloodBath wrote: »

350w is crying out for water cooling though. Custom loop even better.

Itll pretty much require it. Another 295x2?

Serephucus

Yup. I'm hoping We get the 3070 for €400. More realistically it'll be €450-500. It depends how scared they are of RDNA 2 really.

BloodBath

No idea. I can't see it costing that much if they are mass producing them.

350w is crying out for water cooling though. Custom loop even better.

Let's hope it's more competitive on the 3070-3080 level cards along with AMD's RDNA2. The 3090 is for pro workstation users or gamers with more money than sense.

Serephucus

Do we know if that was mass production pricing, or no? Maybe they'll do an Intel and sell the CPU without a cooler installed? That would be kinda cool actually. Just sell it with a basic heatsink to cool the VRM, and let people stick their on blocks or core coolers on it.

I really would love to go back to the days of €500 flagship GPUs.

BloodBath

Serephucus wrote: »

I heard similar from Moore's Law is Dead earlier in the week.

tl;dr: They're going to stop marketing the Titan to gamers, or supporting it through drivers entirely. The 3090 will become the pseudo-Titan with stupid amounts of VRAM, and the 3080 (Ti, Super, etc.) will be the highest-end one, likely with half the RAM and a few SMs lopped off.

A £150 cooler doesn't sound so expensive now when the card is going to be £3000-4000. Still wouldn't fancy cooling a 350w card with an air cooler though.

It should have had a good 360mm AIO. It's not like price is an issue.

Serephucus

I heard similar from Moore's Law is Dead earlier in the week.

tl;dr: They're going to stop marketing the Titan to gamers, or supporting it through drivers entirely. The 3090 will become the pseudo-Titan with stupid amounts of VRAM, and the 3080 (Ti, Super, etc.) will be the highest-end one, likely with half the RAM and a few SMs lopped off.

BloodBath

Nvidias next flagship the 3090 is rumored to be coming in at 350w total board power consumption along with 24GB of GDDR6.

This thing ain't gonna be cheap but I'm guessing it's going to destroy the 2080ti and even the titan. Can't see it costing any less than £1500 though.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-rtx-3090-gpu-tgp-350w/

They are calling it the 3090 but I'm guessing it has to be the new titan with those specs. If it is then pricing is going to be at least double that.

Revoker88

Ah here,what did Minecraft ever do to you? :pac:

Its a strange really good example of how ray tracing works!!

I still think we're looking at €750-900 for a 3080. The interesting thing this time around for me is what if AMD offer similar rasterisation performance with lower RT performance for €100 less.

Pretty much where the market is now with the 57XX series and the 20XX series. Similar rasterisation performance but RTX offers basic ray tracing. Next gen Nvidia will offer better RT and AMD will offer the basic RT for €100 less

Anima

Oh wow you couldn't wait a few weeks for the card you wanted? My heart bleeds. I'm sure a lot of people wish they had that level of disposable income.

Like you're feeding into the problem of them charging whatever they like by just buying the latest and greatest as soon as it's available.

I swear if you're playing minecraft at 4k I might just lose it altogether.

GHOST MGG

Mr Crispy wrote: »

How could you feel shafted by the release of the Ti when the 2080 and 2080 Ti were announced at the same time, and released at the same time?

Because you could not get a 2080ti for love nor money anywhere for weeks after release..i had to settle for 2080

edit..just checked the release dates..1 week between the 2 cards and if i remember correctly it was well after the new yr before the ti was in stock anywhere

Mr Crispy

How could you feel shafted by the release of the Ti when the 2080 and 2080 Ti were announced at the same time, and released at the same time?

GHOST MGG

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

How can you feel "shafted" if the 2080 Ti released at 1200+ euro?

Because in my mind the 2080ti offered more ram,bigger bus,more rops and 200 more tensor cores amongst others,price to performance, well worth the 300 extra euros in my book

K.O.Kiki

How can you feel "shafted" if the 2080 Ti released at 1200+ euro?

GHOST MGG

All i was trying to say is that the 3080 will be more expensive than the 2080 founders edition at launch..i will eat my hat if its not

2080 founders was 849euros i know this as i stupidly bought one only to feel shafted when they released the ti.
a lot of people expecting this card to be 500-700 euros will be sorely disappointed

Im sure nvidia are waiting on rdna2 based cards to release before they announce and launch the 3060 and 3070 versions of the card

Saadyst

Calibos wrote: »

Their Super Jetstream cards were decent 2.5 Slot 2 fan designs...and still €150 cheaper than a 2 slot 3 fan Strix yet with comparable cooling.

2.5 slots Might have prevented SLI but who does SLI anymore. Didn't prevent me having 2 other PCIe cards plugged into my motherboard.

Is that your setup? That's really cool, I like that!

Calibos

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

TBF they have some crappy coolers too.

Their Super Jetstream cards were decent 2.5 Slot 2 fan designs...and still €150 cheaper than a 2 slot 3 fan Strix yet with comparable cooling.

2.5 slots Might have prevented SLI but who does SLI anymore. Didn't prevent me having 2 other PCIe cards plugged into my motherboard.

Homelander

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

TBF they have some crappy coolers too.

Yeah, but so does every company. You will often find Palit cards at the lower end of the cost scale that are miles better than other models at the same price range. Not always but often.

KFA are like that as well, sometimes their card can be the literal cheapest one going, even versus reference or blower cooler model, but they perform so much better.

Gigabyte, XFX and Asus are three companies that often make downright dreadful coolers on their cheaper models.