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successful people

2lazytogetup

looking at news of a new president of the high court.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ms-justice-mary-irvine-to-be-nominated-as-president-of-the-high-court-1.4277609?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fms-justice-mary-irvine-to-be-nominated-as-president-of-the-high-court-1.4277609

She came from an exclusive private school and born into wealth.

But wondering what is the main cause that people reach such heights and become successful in their fields. is it:

1. work ethic driven by your parents- forced to study and it becomes a habit
2. having a natural work ethic- as in you want to study and do well.
2. good genes that make you more intelligent
3. connections
4. higher classes less likely to be in the pub on a sunday afternoon.

i dont know
any thoughts?

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Chicoso

Work ethic

Intelligence

Smartness/ decision making/ attitude

Luck

Sorry about that

Your address when you're born, is probably the biggest indicator of what's ahead, in health, wealth and success.

Mr_Muffin

Be born into money (farmers, family businesses)

Set a goal and do everything you can to achieve it. Luck also plays a part here.

Mad_maxx

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

We all know the massive success stories and know plenty of those from poorer backgrounds who succeeded from grit.

The reality is that those who come from money are at a massive advantage.

In my class in college there was a nice social mix. Most of us went on to be comfortable, not rich and never will be.

However 3 from our year and 1 from another were pretty well off. 3 years after graduation they were set up for life by their families. Two guys set up a company and the 4 were made directors. (I assume due to a nice start up fund or loan by parents. Perhaps solely the connections). These guys now work very hard and are extremely successful. All loaded, houses in nice areas with range rovers on the drive. Yachts.

Plenty others from that year worked extremely hard. A few are now directors or Irish heads of companies. These few are making nice money now but not even close to the 4 above. Their kids might get a similar start yet.

I can freely admit that I never had the drive.

sounds like they all done well , so what if the sons or daughters of the very well heeled end up owning a yacht where as the sons of the mere middle class had to settle for an audi and a holiday in spain as opposed to monte carlo ?

the children of logan roy in succession ( tv show ) are a mess who nobody would envy

there will always be someone better off if you only use one metric ( $ ) , michael o leary is a pauper compared to bill gates

20silkcut

Just thinking off the top of my head of successful people I know personally or in my local community obviously without identifying anyone.

Some are born into wealth and come from people who worked incredibly hard and got lucky with business ventures that went very well in the past. (There was opportunities in the past such as land commission awarding people land, historic low asset prices etc that don’t exist anymore) They themselves continue to work hard and long hours and continue to make their own luck. But the reasons for their success are very obvious and directly related to an insatiable workaholic attitude.

Some made quick money during the Celtic tiger years and were not afraid of taking a big risk and are full of ideas and some of these subsequently have lost it all and are back to square one. Some are still going well.

Some are not very hard workers but have the right personality to run a business and make hard tough decisions and have no qualms about stepping on other people’s toes and driving them into the ground to get what they want. If such attitude is allied to a workaholic attitude the success is amplified.

Some have no explanation for their success other than they must have won the lotto.

Then you have people who were successful through education. Teachers , professors , lawyers, scientists , pharmacists etc but their wealth is more comfortable than mega bucks rich. But these people originated in all classes of society and are probably a product of the free secondary education generation post 1968 a massive leg up to many people.

Some people just married the right people and the marriage led to a net gain in assets,wealth and influence for both parties.

Then there are the returned immigrants / tax exiles who made it big out foreign. One relative of mine made a fortune out of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Luck and timing was the key there choosing the right place at the right time to go back packing.

D9Male

Darc19 wrote: »

I'd hardly call Mt Anville "an exclusive private school"

Middle class fee paying school and accessible to a wide range of students. Lower fees than many of its peers too.

Are you for real? I think 7% of students in the country go to private school. That figure would have been a lot lower in the 70s. By definition, students who can't afford to pay are excluded. I also believe scores of students each year don't get into Mount Anville as it is over-subscribed.

I think people overplay the school thing as it relates to successful people. A far bigger driver is the home and values therein.

Contacts are great, but as mentioned above, they can be developed elsewhere, particularly in industry.

pgj2015

working for yourself usually. you wont really become successful/rich working for someone else.

[Deleted User]

While connections help some to get on in life, or an opportunity, it's not a reason for someone not to be successful if they have other attributes.

And you make your own luck by hard work/study. Luck will give you an opportunity, but its a long enough life/career where you'd be more 'unlucky' not to be successful, rather than being lucky to be successful if you have work ethic, intelligence etc

threeball

pgj2015 wrote: »

working for yourself usually. you wont really become successful/rich working for someone else.

Thats a misconception. The majority of self employed earn less than their peers in employment and carry far higher debt. People look at tradesmen for example and see a guy asking for €3 or 400 per day and think hes minted, ignoring the fact hes probably paying at least an apprentice, has 10k of tools that can get robbed at any time, van on the road, tax, insurances, permits, no holiday pay or sick pay. Being self employed you are more likely living week to week and wages for employees and bills from suppliers come before your wages when the cheque doesn't arrive from a project.

Chicoso

threeball wrote: »

Thats a misconception. The majority of self employed earn less than their peers in employment and carry far higher debt. People look at tradesmen for example and see a guy asking for €3 or 400 per day and think hes minted, ignoring the fact hes probably paying at least an apprentice, has 10k of tools that can get robbed at any time, van on the road, tax, insurances, permits, no holiday pay or sick pay. Being self employed you are more likely living week to week and wages for employees and bills from suppliers come before your wages when the cheque doesn't arrive from a project.

It's mostly the bad tradesmen making the big money

threeball

Chicoso wrote: »

It's mostly the bad tradesmen making the big money

Again, people who cut corners and don't give a sh1t but amazingly in a country so small they still get work whilst decent people get raked over the coals for very little.

PhilOssophy

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

All loaded, houses in nice areas with range rovers on the drive.

Since when was a Range Rover on the drive a symbol of success? In many cases they are bought on finance, by people who can barely afford them.
To me, in many cases it symbolises desperation to keep up with the Jones's. I could well afford to go out and buy a Range Rover but to be honest I'd rather my modest car and to take a shorter working week soon than to drive some hideous thing I don't need around my locality!
Successful people often don't need or want to show off their wealth, people who know them know they have made it! (I appreciate that probably isn't the case in the situation mentioned above!)

pgj2015

threeball wrote: »

Thats a misconception. The majority of self employed earn less than their peers in employment and carry far higher debt. People look at tradesmen for example and see a guy asking for €3 or 400 per day and think hes minted, ignoring the fact hes probably paying at least an apprentice, has 10k of tools that can get robbed at any time, van on the road, tax, insurances, permits, no holiday pay or sick pay. Being self employed you are more likely living week to week and wages for employees and bills from suppliers come before your wages when the cheque doesn't arrive from a project.

that is a very pessimistic view of working for yourself. i find that when you work for yourself you work far more than when you are an employee, I work 7 days a week, some nights as well. I am planning on starting a few more businesses at the moment, there is no limit on what you can earn when you work for yourself, if that is what you want.

Lundstram

Genes.

threeball

pgj2015 wrote: »

that is a very pessimistic view of working for yourself. i find that when you work for yourself you work far more than when you are an employee, I work 7 days a week, some nights as well. I am planning on starting a few more businesses at the moment, there is no limit on what you can earn when you work for yourself, if that is what you want.

Its not pessimistic, its realistic. That is the reality for the vast majority of self employed. Go look at the stats for yourself. You have a different experience as is expected or else no one would be self employed but for the vast majority they would be better off working for someone else not to mention the hassle of trying to get mortgages etc if you're self employed.

Chicoso

threeball wrote: »

Its not pessimistic, its realistic. That is the reality for the vast majority of self employed. Go look at the stats for yourself. You have a different experience as is expected or else no one would be self employed but for the vast majority they would be better off working for someone else not to mention the hassle of trying to get mortgages etc if you're self employed.

All the self employed people I know are nearly broke or went bust

pgj2015

threeball wrote: »

Its not pessimistic, its realistic. That is the reality for the vast majority of self employed. Go look at the stats for yourself. You have a different experience as is expected or else no one would be self employed but for the vast majority they would be better off working for someone else not to mention the hassle of trying to get mortgages etc if you're self employed.

If you really go for it as a self employed person you are better off I think. I know what you are saying with the banks, I cant stand them myself, I am on the look out for a house at the moment and I am going to be buying it outright, no mortgage from them chancers.

Wildly Boaring

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Since when was a Range Rover on the drive a symbol of success? In many cases they are bought on finance, by people who can barely afford them.
To me, in many cases it symbolises desperation to keep up with the Jones's. I could well afford to go out and buy a Range Rover but to be honest I'd rather my modest car and to take a shorter working week soon than to drive some hideous thing I don't need around my locality!
Successful people often don't need or want to show off their wealth, people who know them know they have made it! (I appreciate that probably isn't the case in the situation mentioned above!)

You left out the word "Yachts" after the fullstop

These boys have done very well.
I don't begrudge. Nice chaps with it

NSAman

Lundstram wrote: »

Genes.

Getting inside them!

PhilOssophy

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

You left out the word "Yachts" after the fullstop

These boys have done very well.
I don't begrudge. Nice chaps with it

I wasn't begrudging and never do - good luck to everyone who is successful, I am moderately successful myself! I just pointed out that I don't view a Range Rover as a symbol of success! Having said that, I have an aversion to all SUV's and detest them immensely! Anyway, that's probably for another thread.

I think what people in general are also forgetting is that 1 man's success is another man's failure. I might aim to be head of a global corporation and view that as success, for somebody else its to educate their family and live a normal life. I am probably stuck somewhere in the middle, like most of us.

And another thing I thought of overnight. In America, it is all about wealth and inherited wealth in particular. There is simply no breaking in to that top circle if you are an ordinary Joe - you probably can't even afford the college education. Thankfully, I think that barrier isn't anywhere near as prevalent in Ireland. In Ireland, most of us can at least aspire to get to the top.

Montage of Feck

Unless one of those old school v8 range rovers or maybe a defender a land rover isn't a sign of real success.

pgj2015

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I wasn't begrudging and never do - good luck to everyone who is successful, I am moderately successful myself! I just pointed out that I don't view a Range Rover as a symbol of success! Having said that, I have an aversion to all SUV's and detest them immensely! Anyway, that's probably for another thread.

I think what people in general are also forgetting is that 1 man's success is another man's failure. I might aim to be head of a global corporation and view that as success, for somebody else its to educate their family and live a normal life. I am probably stuck somewhere in the middle, like most of us.

And another thing I thought of overnight. In America, it is all about wealth and inherited wealth in particular. There is simply no breaking in to that top circle if you are an ordinary Joe - you probably can't even afford the college education. Thankfully, I think that barrier isn't anywhere near as prevalent in Ireland. In Ireland, most of us can at least aspire to get to the top.

I agree, Ireland is a far better place to live when you compare it to the USA. In the states you come out of college owing thousands in student loans, you will be years paying them back, In Ireland they pay you to go to college if you are unemployed. They give out 100 year plus sentences in the states, In Ireland you could kill someone and be out in 10. yet you still hear people saying Ireland is a kip and talking about how great america is. idiots.

Stovepipe

Figel Narage wrote: »

Connections, hard work, ambition and a lot of luck I would guess

One of the great golfers, when told that he must be very lucky, said "the more I practise, the luckier I get".

the thing about family wealth is that it gives a young person breathing space as they don't have to worry about money,which lifts a huge load off young shoulders, because they know, that no matter what, there will always be money available to bail them out if need be. They will never want for food,clothing, a safe and decent home,money for leisure pursuits and so on and it creates enormous self confidence, because you instinctively know that you have a safety netand that your possibilities depend entirely on your willingness to graft. This being Ireland,connections always help,of course.

talla10

Family, Friendship, Religion

These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in Business

Airyfairy12

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you give an example of a particular career where it applies?

I can give a list..
Any area in Art and Design.
Solicitors/Barristers
Makeup artistry
Any area of television/film. I have a friend who is now living in Australia working for ABC news but couldnt get any small job with TG4 or ITV. Her sister works in Australia for ABC and helped her get a job, she is now really successful in her role.
Teaching
Acting/Singing/Modelling/any entertainment work.
Journalism/Writing
Many sports careers
I could literally go on all day.

PhilOssophy

Stovepipe wrote: »

One of the great golfers, when told that he must be very lucky, said "the more I practise, the luckier I get".

the thing about family wealth is that it gives a young person breathing space as they don't have to worry about money,which lifts a huge load off young shoulders, because they know, that no matter what, there will always be money available to bail them out if need be. They will never want for food,clothing, a safe and decent home,money for leisure pursuits and so on and it creates enormous self confidence, because you instinctively know that you have a safety netand that your possibilities depend entirely on your willingness to graft. This being Ireland,connections always help,of course.

Its an interesting argument, I would say though that people who don't have money or come from very modest backgrounds can be much more determined and hard-working to get to the top, than somebody who comes from money.

I suppose it depends on the up-bringing. I know a person who is the son of a multi-millionaire who had a part-time/summer job from when he was 16 right through college. He has done well for himself, but through his own hard work for the most part.

Its not necessarily the money you have, it is the values you teach your children because of it.

pgj2015

it isnt always the best to grown up with rich parents, look at peaches geldof or tom hanks son. It would have been hard for them to be as successful as their parents so some of them turn to drugs etc rachel allens son another fine example.

[Deleted User]

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I can give a list..
Any area in Art and Design.
Solicitors/Barristers
Makeup artistry
Any area of television/film. I have a friend who is now living in Australia working for ABC news but couldnt get any small job with TG4 or ITV. Her sister works in Australia for ABC and helped her get a job, she is now really successful in her role.
Teaching
Acting/Singing/Modelling/any entertainment work.
Journalism/Writing
Many sports careers
I could literally go on all day.

I was thinking the arts myself when I saw your post, but thought I'd leave it to you. And some of the creative roles, but more down to limits of talent mostly, despite desire etc.

Barristers agree again, not do much solicitor's. If determined you'll succeed as an accountant/solicitor/vet/doctor, most professions.

Totally disagree re sports, if you have the talent, determination etc you will succeed. I would say its one of the most democratic career choices.

Teaching, no (while there is a degree of networking/nepotism) if you are good enough you will eventually succeed. If you are only mediocre it may be tough alright. This was the story of my wife, had to prove herself in a geographical location where she knew nobody and had to build her own network. It was tough but she succeeded.

Even with the arts if you are exceptional you will succeed. Imo.

PhilOssophy

Funny thing is I am related to a barrister and she said all you need to do is get known, present to CPD sessions, etc, etc. Lean years at the start, once you build your network you can make it.
It is probably true though that you have a leg up if you have the elite circle though.

Wildly Boaring

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I wasn't begrudging and never do - good luck to everyone who is successful, I am moderately successful myself! I just pointed out that I don't view a Range Rover as a symbol of success! Having said that, I have an aversion to all SUV's and detest them immensely! Anyway, that's probably for another thread.

Sorry I know how it read didn't mean that your statement was begrudging.

Agree on the RR. Hate them too.
My point was more that these boys are very wealthy. That's all