wiz1001 wrote: » As a society we have the court system to provide objective analysis and process that has a presumption of innocence until the opposite is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. This however is a gangland forum thread(not a jurisprudence one), we are allowed to speculate/gossip and often many things written on here are way off but many other things aren't and with DK in particular there is simply too much information out there for him not to be a very a bad man. Hopefully one day however DK will get the objective legal analysis and process he is entitled to when he is brought before a court.
begbysback wrote: » Well, if we arent already at a stage in this country where DK lawyers could justifiably argue its impossible to get a fair trial in this country, then we are getting damn close.
brady12 wrote: » Now I might not have details correct but didn’t 2/3 dell security guards disappear in limerick that without a trace (bar One mans body part that was found in a river .) at the height of the limerick feud . Iv never hard a theory on why or were they linked at all was it just coincidence ? I remember one of them was acting weird and had been beaten up before he disappeared .
PCeeeee wrote: » SCC. He wont ever come before a jury
White lighting wrote: » Conlans father is originally from crumlin so the roots could be deeper than when Jamie signed up. None of those boxers give a bollox once they are getting there ball of cash on a weekly basis. There is **** all money in boxing except the upper classes. Half these rehabs like carroll keeler and Geraghty be on the dole if it wasnt for the drug money
Don Logan wrote: » Before that whole thing went down in the Wicklow mountains ?
OnYerPike wrote: » Some haul of medals and cash among the three mentioned. Ruddock, McMenamin, Fowler, McAteer, Balotelli, El Hadji Diouf.
Donald Trump wrote: » Keeler is a qualified engineer with a degree from DIT Possibly better qualifications than you have yourself?..........
kingstevii wrote: » Which bar was that?
hatrickpatrick wrote: » This will be an unpopular view I'm sure, but at least anyone who's seen me post in this thread over the years knows I'm pretty much the exact opposite of a Kinahan apologist. With that in mind: Does anyone else find it a little disturbing how quickly and eagerly we as a society seem to have done away with concepts such as the presumption of innocence and due process? Everything from #metoo to the Belfast trial and now this is symptomatic of the same thing, guilt by accusation and punishment without conviction. Based on everything I've read both in the media and on this thread, as well as things I've heard from extremely reliable sources in real life, I'd be of the view that DK is indeed the warlord he is alleged to be and that he does have at least some of the blood of the victims in the crusade against the Hutch family on his hands. There's enough evidence in various different forms to suggest this. However. A core tenet of our democratic system is that unless you are convicted in a court of law, you are presumed to be innocent of any crimes of which you are accused, and treated as such. No conviction, no consequences. That the leader of our country has stood up and publicly stated that somebody who has never been convicted, only accused of involvement in gangland crime should be boycotted or otherwise prevented from living his life and carrying out whatever legal and legitimate business activities he chooses to participate in, is just something I find extremely disturbing, and it disturbs me further that there's zero discussion of any of this. In terms of the feud and the crimes therein, the Gardaí and the courts need to get their sh!t together and, in the case of the Gardaí, build a case against these guys, and in the case of the courts, put them away for long enough stretches behind bars that their organisation disintegrates during that time. However, in the absence of that, by every metric of a free and democratic society, Daniel Kinahan is an innocent man. He has every right to live his life as he wishes until such time as he is not considered an innocent man - IE, after having been formally convicted in a court of law and sentenced by the presiding judge. Leo Varadkar, in my view, shouldn't be throwing unproven and untested allegations against an individual around. It's an abuse of office. Before everyone jumps on me, just consider the implications of allowing this paradigm to fester. Guilt by accusation. Speeches and phone calls by a politician derailing the career of someone who has absolutely no convictions for crime, just accusations. If you open that Pandora's box, then everyone from journalists who uncover scandals in government to political opponents running for election are fair game. The very reason we have due process is to prevent such appalling consequences for society if allegations are able to be used as a tool to hurt somebody. The Taoiseach's word is not enough. The word of a judge is not enough. The word of a journalist is not enough. The only mechanism by which Daniel Kinahan's legal activities in the world of boxing should be up for being disrupted is by a formal ruling in a court of law at the end of a criminal trial. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I am not a Kinahan fan as anyone who's read any of my posts in this thread will know - in terms of the Hutch-Kinahan feud they are very much the villains in this piece. But what I think is irrelevant. What you think is irrelevant. What Leo thinks is irrelevant. In the absence of a criminal conviction, it would be profoundly wrong for businesses to blacklist this man, and it would be especially wrong for businesses to blacklist an individual because a member of a national government asked them to. Just think for a moment about the precedent we would be setting. One foot in the door of tyranny if the word of a TD or minister can destroy a man's career despite him not having had his day in court.
sabat wrote: » If an Islamic terrorist was directing a campaign from the Middle East that had already killed 20+ Irish people with many more on a kill list would you argue that an extra-judicial assassination wasn't justified? For context, pro-rata that would be the equivalent of 300+ people in the UK or 1500+ Americans.
Coollio wrote: » Matthew Carroll went missing in June '98, Des Walsh went missing Sept '99 and Gus Shanahan (was his part they found in the river) went missing Feb '00.
ratindubai123 wrote: » Exactly - wtf are some people talking about. Obviously very far removed from the goings on on the street. The dog on the streets knows. LB should be brought in with him too. Two absolute thugs.
Un happy in rush wrote: » He will be
White lighting wrote: » Obviously the drug money pays well so of hes given up that to live of the proceeds of crime. Bang average boxer who got a ridicoulos decision in his favor against Darren cruise a few years back. Now his hooked up with a woman who his boss shot her ex fella you couldn't make it up. Knackers
bigsuge1 wrote: » Anyone got an accurate idea on what the hierarchy/chain of command of the 'cartel' was a few years back before it went pear-shaped with the likes of the Byrnes? DK and his family at the top of tree. Bomber K? The Byrnes and GH at some sort of high up level. Fat Fred, Bop, Mago?
ratindubai123 wrote: » Ricer and GK sat on the board too - above LB, prob above all you've mentioned actually.
Figel Narage wrote: » It's a bit strange regarding hierarchy. Christy was the head but seemed to be jointly with JC, whenever one went to prison the other would run things in their absence. Then you have people like Bomber who were very high up as well and I'm not sure if he was in the above category. GH was one step below DK, I'm not too sure on Freddie Thompson's level, some things I read made it seem he was on GH's level and others made it seem he was just a thug and not in the upper echelons of organizing things. LB and his brother seemed pretty high up and heavily involved in running the whole thing. It's hard to know for certain as you can imagine, they wouldn't make it public knowledge. There could be more senior people involved we've never heard of and someone even the likes of DK as the current head of the whole thing reports to for all we know
