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Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

Akesh

Imagine the shock and horror in Leinster House when it was discovered that a country, where over 91% of the population are white, has a civil service that is 'very white'. To correct this error, he would like to use targets for the civil service to hire more minorities.

These kinds of targets are illogical and in no way should a public servant be hired on the basis of their skin colour or race but this is what he wants to introduce.

Is this just another reactionary policy in reaction to the death of George Floyd or does it have merit? Obviously recruiters in the civil service are racists otherwise there would be no need for such a policy/target.

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punisher5112

I'm confused, does this mean we need to get more Asian, African, Chinese and any other country or region into the civil service?

Spon Farmer

Strumms wrote: »

Well, I think by definition, Lesbian, gay, bi, trans is quite mixed ?

Then don't add unnecessary words that will cause confusion to old timers.

Strumms

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Jaysus is there an another group now?:eek:

What the hell is mixed LGBT ?

Well, I think by definition, Lesbian, gay, bi, trans is quite mixed ?

cloudatlas

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Let's not state the obvious... You'll be labeled as something

Because nobody from Ireland ever left or married someone from a foreign country and then returned to Ireland with their mixed race children?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-make-myself-small-and-stay-quiet-experiences-of-racism-in-ireland-1.4277637?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fpeople%2Fi-make-myself-small-and-stay-quiet-experiences-of-racism-in-ireland-1.4277637

Lad in this article says his mum married a Libyan and he was born in 1983.

Strumms

kildare lad wrote: »

You'd better make sure you hire one of each , cos if you don't they'll be in the Irish times next week moaning how racist , sexist , homophobic your company is

I’d rather hire the best, most suitable candidate, with a rigorous interview process, aptitude test, background reference checks the lot... all i’s dotted, all t’s crossed...so that IF somebody makes an accusation, you have documented proof, a 3 person interview panel, the lot. Interview notes and other relevant paperwork kept and filed...minutes to be kept from decision meetings too, outlining every aspect of the decision process.. key points outlining each candidates qualities, so ultimately the decision is based on weighing up positives of each candidate fairly...

yerwanthere123

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Stop importing this identity politics shíte from America

Wow, I've got the second most thanked post on Boards across the last 24 hours, gonna put this on my CV under 'Greatest Achievements'.

Ninthlife

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Interview, obviously.

If you want to pretend "who you know" doesn't often influence who gets the job in Ireland, both in the public and private sector, fire ahead.

It's an uncontroversial opinion in normal conversation, not least because we all know many people who had to work their connections to get their jobs, but for some reason people online feel the need to argue that up is down and black is white.

How does who you know matter when it comes to a civil service job, lets say Executive Officer. You can be called to interview and there may be 4 interview boards running thats 12 board members, on each is usually 2 serving Civil Servants of Grade HEO or higher and another usually either retired Civil Servant or HR consultant. So who you know is going to approach all 12 and give the ol nod and wink for Johnny should he appear on their interview board? Remember also board members mostly get their papers a day or 2 in advance of interview.

Ninthlife

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I can promise you they are not.

So tell me how does an anonymous Equality form which is optional to complete have any bearing on someones application?

Spon Farmer

Strumms wrote: »

Multicultural and diversity are terms that I’ve no time for, what I do have time for... fairness.

If I’m hiring 6 bus drivers tomorrow and I have 4 African applicants, 4 members of the traveling community applying, 4 Irish females applying, 4 Irish males and 4 mixed LGBT people applying... I don’t care, I’m STILL hiring who I believe are the 6 best most suitable candidates...

My first priority is to the customers, my second to the staff.... I care not one fùck about anybody waving flags, waving an agenda, looking for xyz criteria to be met.. you have the expertise, qualifications, experience, attitude and aptitude to do the job, you’ll get hired, I don’t care about your background, your troubles, your struggles, any of it....

Equal opportunity is that, equal for everyone...I owe myself, my colleagues, staff and customers to hire the best... that’s what I’ll endeavor to do.

Jaysus is there an another group now?:eek:

What the hell is mixed LGBT ?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ninthlife wrote: »

Those forms are for statistical purposes and are not connected to your application.

I can promise you they are not.

kildare lad

Strumms wrote: »

Multicultural and diversity are terms that I’ve no time for, what I do have time for... fairness.

If I’m hiring 6 bus drivers tomorrow and I have 4 African applicants, 4 members of the traveling community applying, 4 Irish females applying, 4 Irish males and 4 mixed LGBT people applying... I don’t care, I’m STILL hiring who I believe are the 6 best most suitable candidates...

My first priority is to the customers, my second to the staff.... I care not one fùck about anybody waving flags, waving an agenda, looking for xyz criteria to be met.. you have the expertise, qualifications, experience, attitude and aptitude to do the job, you’ll get hired, I don’t care about your background, your troubles, your struggles, any of it....

Equal opportunity is that, equal for everyone...I owe myself, my colleagues, staff and customers to hire the best... that’s what I’ll endeavor to do.

You'd better make sure you hire one of each , cos if you don't they'll be in the Irish times next week moaning how racist , sexist , homophobic your company is

CrankyHaus

SouthWesterly wrote: »

So you've no experience with the CS but can comment with some sense of authority.

The process is:
You register your interest in a job and complete an application form which is submitted online. At a point in time everyone who applied completes an online aptitude test and if they pass, they get placed based on score.

They will then do a supervised test (same one) and if they passed they are further placed. large diversity in the 2 scores are deemed cheating as the first one is unsupervised. There are cameras in the testing room.

An interview process is then completed based on your application form.
Depending on the grade, there are other online supervised exams.

If you pass the interview, you are placed for appointment to a department.
Anyone with an Irish or EU citizenship can apply.
Where is the nepotism?

Interview, obviously.

If you want to pretend "who you know" doesn't often influence who gets the job in Ireland, both in the public and private sector, fire ahead.

It's an uncontroversial opinion in normal conversation, not least because we all know many people who had to work their connections to get their jobs, but for some reason people online feel the need to argue that up is down and black is white.

Strumms

Wibbs wrote: »

Well you've hit the nail on the head there. "Diversity" only seems to apply to White people and nations. Your "progressives" see a White majority nation and culture and insist it needs "diversity". The right kind of course, IE more non Whites. A few thousand Italians/Spaniards/Germans won't cut it. East Asian folks don't really cut it so much either.

Now if one were to suggest after an hour walking around say Kampala that what this place needs is a load more White folks, there would be ructions, much gnashing of teeth and noises about colonialism and cultural appropriation and the like, but oul Whitey needs more dark faces to be "correct".

It's utter bollocks and as so called "multicultural" nations have shown causes all sorts of extra divisions and social problems, not least for the non native population and for generations with it. Show me any multicultural nation where social progress and social issues aren't drawn along racial lines. Good luck with that.

Multicultural and diversity are terms that I’ve no time for, what I do have time for... fairness.

If I’m hiring 6 bus drivers tomorrow and I have 4 African applicants, 4 members of the traveling community applying, 4 Irish females applying, 4 Irish males and 4 mixed LGBT people applying... I don’t care, I’m STILL hiring who I believe are the 6 best most suitable candidates...

My first priority is to the customers, my second to the staff.... I care not one fùck about anybody waving flags, waving an agenda, looking for xyz criteria to be met.. you have the expertise, qualifications, experience, attitude and aptitude to do the job, you’ll get hired, I don’t care about your background, your troubles, your struggles, any of it....

Equal opportunity is that, equal for everyone...I owe myself, my colleagues, staff and customers to hire the best... that’s what I’ll endeavor to do.

[Deleted User]

CrankyHaus wrote: »

If you say so. I don't have significant experience of the Civil Service. But I have plenty with semi-states, Councils and other parts of the public sector; and they're highly nepotistic.

That includes organisations that nominally hire through the Public Appointments Service and I've found that any reputation for independent merit-based selection is a myth.

Without further evidence I see no reason to believe that the Civil Service is some shining beacon of best-practice in that grubby sea of nepotism.

So you've no experience with the CS but can comment with some sense of authority.

The process is:
You register your interest in a job and complete an application form which is submitted online. At a point in time everyone who applied completes an online aptitude test and if they pass, they get placed based on score.

They will then do a supervised test (same one) and if they passed they are further placed. large diversity in the 2 scores are deemed cheating as the first one is unsupervised. There are cameras in the testing room.

An interview process is then completed based on your application form.
Depending on the grade, there are other online supervised exams.

If you pass the interview, you are placed for appointment to a department.
Anyone with an Irish or EU citizenship can apply.
Where is the nepotism?

Tea drinker

conorhal wrote: »

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

With rioters tearing down statues and looting.. who are the police arresting?
Teenagers making fun of of a violent thug drug addict on Snapchat.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-teens-who-mocked-george-22122018

If you're an authoritarian regime, control of the narrative is very important.

Look how the Arab world "manages" itself for a glimpse of the future. Diversity is their strength

Yugoslavia had work camps, same in Sovijet Russija. Syria is an eclectic melting pot we are helping to liberate thru death, Libya had Gaddaffi before descending into slavery courtesy of our good selves. Khmer Rouge helped get the population numbers waaay down.
The hyserical left are not far from Khmer rouge for me.

[Deleted User]

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

the first big influx of immigrants only arrived 20 years ago

their kids are only in college now

how would they be working in the civil service at this stage?

Let's not state the obvious... You'll be labeled as something

jmayo

tobefrank321 wrote: »

My problem with Leo is he's had 3 years to do something about this issue as Taoiseach.

He's had 9 years in government to do something about it.

And he only mentions it now when it becomes the major international issue of our time and even then only pays lip service to it.

Bring in the heads of the civil service and ask them to do something about it, instead of making some big PR show and then doing nothing.

Unless of course he has actually no intention of doing anything about it.

What issue ?
Why do we need to do something about something that is not a problem?

The civil service is probably representative of the population or do you think that Adeola that stepped off a plane from Nigeria (oh wait there are no direct flights from Nigeria - I keep forgetting) a few years back should have a job in civil service or that Selassia from Eritrea or Hamza from Pakistan should have walked into jobs in civil service ?

The one area where we do need some people of different backgrounds is the AGS in order to police those communities.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

According to some around here you should be guaranteed a job if you were a black gay traveller.

I bet the venn diagram between the last one and preceding two shows a big fat zero.

[Deleted User]

Sarcozies wrote: »

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

Dunno, I find them to be rather strange examples since with the exception of Islam, the other two were very intolerant of non-native cultures which didn't integrate. All three Empire enjoyed showing their cultural and moral superiority to inferior peoples, but China definitely didn't want them mingling within their actual borders... except to deliver tribute. Islamic empires were slightly more tolerant, but the idea of them being tolerant should be used lightly... still, if you paid, you received some limited rights.

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

We're forever hoping that they'll learn from the mistakes of other nations, and not simply follow in their footsteps. Yes, we're the strangest bunch because we want a government that puts the interests of the native population ahead of foreign organisations or peoples. This virtue signalling rubbish that says foreigners must be treated better than the native population shouldn't even be considered racist, and yet, that's where we've ended up...

Basically, a government that learned from the heaps of mistakes made by other nations, and sought different ways to resolve those problems. Some long term thinking would also be nice.

Ninthlife

Tea drinker wrote: »

I thought this was a joke :-(
Surely this is something private which should not be shared or open to any abuse, fully transparent process?

Whats a joke?

An anonymous form asking for gender, race etc is used to answer numerous questions either through FOI or PQs

It ia asked many times how many people of <insert demographic here> has applied for whichever post it may be i.e Gardai, Executive Officer, Clerical Officer

Tea drinker

Ninthlife wrote: »

Those forms are for statistical purposes and are not connected to your application.

I thought this was a joke :-(
Surely this is something private which should not be shared or open to any abuse, fully transparent process?

Ninthlife

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

Those forms are for statistical purposes and are not connected to your application.

Wibbs

conorhal wrote: »

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

Brutal authoritarianism alright, but quite differently to how modern multiculturalism is played out. Those empires were cocksure of themselves and made damned sure that any minorities were only welcome if they kow towed to the majority culture. Anything too "un Roman/Islamic/Chinese" was mercilessly slapped down. "When in Rome" etc.

conorhal

Sarcozies wrote: »

So you're saying we can expect the Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire to be joined shortly by Leo and the boys as the case studies to be learned for centuries to come as to how to do multiculturalism?

We're the strangest bunch. We constantly moan about how inept our government is and always was and yet we expect them to take on a task that only a handful, maybe none ever, have accomplished? Ha.

The real question to ask is HOW did those empires ( Roman Empire, Islamic Empire and Chinese Empire) successfully manage multuculturalism?

The answer is massive degrees of brutal authoritarianism, and we're seeing it now in the ever tightening grip European governments are excercising on speach.

With rioters tearing down statues and looting.. who are the police arresting?
Teenagers making fun of of a violent thug drug addict on Snapchat.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-teens-who-mocked-george-22122018

If you're an authoritarian regime, control of the narrative is very important.

yenom

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

It's been a while since I done the exam but perhaps the exams only come in if you pass stage one?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

yenom wrote: »

There's three online and then supervised exams. An English exam, a Maths exam and a spot the difference exam. The option to give your race and gender is optional.

It must depend on what job you’re applying for. I’ve never had to do an exam. The box ticking for traveller, black, gay was on all of my forms.

yenom

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Exams? I’ve been through the process 15 times and there was never an exam. There is a box to tick for being black however.

There's three online and then supervised exams. An English exam, a Maths exam and a spot the difference exam. The option to give your race and gender is optional.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

yenom wrote: »

There are three exams to get into the civil service. The exams are corrected by a computer. Either you pass them or you don't. The computer doesn't know what you look like.

Exams? I’ve been through the process 15 times and there was never an exam. There is a box to tick for being black however.

suicide_circus

This was nothing more than a cynical cack-handed attempt by Leo to use the current racial sh1tshow in the US to boost his woke credentials.

Well Leo, you thundering arsehole, in case you hadn't notice we have enough REAL problems in this country without artificially manufacturing them for the benefit of your profile.

JPCN1

You have to hand it to Leo, he's some man for the old bandwagon.

tobefrank321

Mr. Karate wrote: »

That's RTE in general now. Its been that way for a while. They just weren't as obvious about it. And then they wonder why the Irish don't want to pay the license fee.

The irony being that much like Irish politics, RTE is almost exclusively white middle class, with little or no diversity.

Strong on finger pointing though. And don't expect a Prime Time Special on diversity in RTE anytime soon.