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Child Item

Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

Akesh

Imagine the shock and horror in Leinster House when it was discovered that a country, where over 91% of the population are white, has a civil service that is 'very white'. To correct this error, he would like to use targets for the civil service to hire more minorities.

These kinds of targets are illogical and in no way should a public servant be hired on the basis of their skin colour or race but this is what he wants to introduce.

Is this just another reactionary policy in reaction to the death of George Floyd or does it have merit? Obviously recruiters in the civil service are racists otherwise there would be no need for such a policy/target.

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Nesta2018

When you look at Dr Ebun Joseph, you can see the effects of this kind of tokenistic mentality. Anyone who reads what she has written or who has listened to her will know that her PhD is a joke, as is her heading up a "Black Studies" department in UCD. This is the kind of thing that stokes racism and resentment. By contrast, look at this fine young woman from a Cameroonian background, who worked hard in school and got a teaching qualification. She did not need quota systems or special treatment and she points out herself that the opportunities are there, and encourages young people from minority backgrounds to just go for it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0605/1145786-diversity-in-education/

TheCitizen

nullzero wrote: »

Thank god you arrived to alert us to it.

You’re not wrong there, it speaks for itself. Pathetic, inaccurate, racist bile.

[Deleted User]

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I think we have to view this with a bit of balance, particularly as Ireland’s is becoming more diverse. If there are barriers to entry. or some kind of issue with recruiting people then we need to look at it.

We have laws to protect the rights of the individual. Anyone can claim if they feel that they've been discriminated against. We started better than other countries, in that we had laws in place before most minority groups arrived.

Also the Irish language barrier is not relevant, as if you’ve been through the school system here, you’ve learn it.

I don't care. It's our national language and we should be learning it. I don't buy into this dislike of Irish nationalism... taking pride in aspects that are unique to our people. Internationally, we are an absolute joke for not being able to speak our own language. Instead, the language should be taught as a language.. not a subject.

We could just look at how we could make people feel they could and should consider these careers.

Then there should be advertising the raise awareness, but any preference in hiring is discriminatory.

gibsmedat

Polish people for the most part are grafters,they arent going to be taking up jobs in the civil service in any great numbers. Most of them i know, here 10+ years still regard themselves as guests in Ireland.

Girly Gal

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I think we have to view this with a bit of balance, particularly as Ireland’s is becoming more diverse. If there are barriers to entry. or some kind of issue with recruiting people then we need to look at it.

If it’s just a case of Ireland becoming more diverse quite rapidly and people of different backgrounds are only starting to appear in those kinds of organisations, then it could simply be a time lag.

However, it’s still important to monitor it and ensure we don’t have issues like that.

I know one of the things that surprises me quite a bit is that we don’t have Polish as a signifiant subject in schools. There’s a big population of Polish speakers here and surely some of them must have degrees in Polish and other subjects and could be recruited into teaching?

I mean it’s as significant a language as say Italian, yet I still just see Irish schools offering primarily French and some German and Spanish perhaps.

There have to be other language groups out there too, who should be brought into the education system. It’s an opportunity for the whole country in terms of multilingualism and having native speaker teachers.

I just can’t understand why we aren’t seeing more diversity or language amongst teachers.

You might rarely encounter a native French or German speaker in schools here, but you would really expect a lot more of it at this stage, which would seem to indicate there are significant barriers be they cultural or formal that are resulting in people not considering going into teaching. .

You have to look at that kind of thing across the whole public sector. If you don’t you can inadvertently end up with a whole public sector that doesn’t look much like the population it serves.

Also the Irish language barrier is not relevant, as if you’ve been through the school system here, you’ve learn it.

We could just look at how we could make people feel they could and should consider these careers.

Polish is not a widely used language outside of Poland, the other languages are more widely used globally and in business

Eric Cartman

So Gay marriage, free abortions for all, Dublin has become a haven for cyclists, dole Christmas bonus and now anti white racist quotas.

no tax cuts, no welfare cheat finders, no usc cuts.

I don't want to hear one more person suggest that Leo is even 1 degree to the right of centre, he's turned FG into labour with some pbp flavours in there.

Ireland never colonised anybody, we have nothing to apologise or make up for. Ireland for the Irish, who in the vast majority of cases are pasty white and happy about it.

Brendog

Class MayDresser wrote: »

Is there a link to what he actually said or will I wait til his reaffirmation later on on his twitter?

Is there a link? Was this in a public address or over twitter?

Rockbeast2

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Firstly, that was a racist comment by Leo yesterday. He should be called out on it. He is clearly damaged in some way.

Regarding the racial make up of the civil service, WTF does he expect? We are a majority white country in a majority white part of the world. Our "whiteness" is not some act of racism. It is evolution based on environmental advantages to being white in northern climates.

Minorities have only become prevalent in the last 20 years, 25 at a push. Many of these original adults immigrants were never going to work in the civil service or many other professions because of the language/skills/education barriers.

Their kids now should have the opportunity to pursue the career they want if they so choose. Guess what? They do. They have been provided with the same free access to primary, secondary, and tertiary education as any other child of the state.

If they choose not to gravitate towards jobs in the civil service, then that is not evidence of Irish racism. This issue is a cultural one, NOT a racism one. If a black youth is raised by a gang in the absence of a father figure and aspires only to be a [drill/rap] musician or play sport, and rejects an academic education, how is his lack of progress to a job in the civil service a reflection of Irish racism? It simply is not.

I understand the need for black role models outside of music and sport, but affirmative action will cause A LOT of strife over the medium term unless people have earned the necessary skills to deserve their position on merit.

This is all about education and ambition and the importance a culture places on it IMO.

Strumms

is_that_so wrote: »

Their careers both here and abroad will be more greatly advanced by high levels of English. 780 people took Polish as a LC exam in 2019 v over 22,000 doing French. Even German, the next biggest, is over 10 times this total. The biggest problem of all is the cost of employing teachers for such tiny numbers.

Completely, it’s a batshît crazy suggestion.

is_that_so

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I think we have to view this with a bit of balance, particularly as Ireland’s is becoming more diverse. If there are barriers to entry. or some kind of issue with recruiting people then we need to look at it.

If it’s just a case of Ireland becoming more diverse quite rapidly and people of different backgrounds are only starting to appear in those kinds of organisations, then it could simply be a time lag.

However, it’s still important to monitor it and ensure we don’t have issues like that.

I know one of the things that surprises me quite a bit is that we don’t have Polish as a signifiant subject in schools. There’s a big population of Polish speakers here and surely some of them must have degrees in Polish and other subjects and could be recruited into teaching?

I mean it’s as significant a language as say Italian, yet I still just see Irish schools offering primarily French and some German and Spanish perhaps.

There have to be other language groups out there too, who should be brought into the education system. It’s an opportunity for the whole country in terms of multilingualism and having native speaker teachers.

I just can’t understand why we aren’t seeing more diversity or language amongst teachers.

You might rarely encounter a native French or German speaker in schools here, but you would really expect a lot more of it at this stage, which would seem to indicate there are significant barriers be they cultural or formal that are resulting in people not considering going into teaching. .

You have to look at that kind of thing across the whole public sector. If you don’t you can inadvertently end up with a whole public sector that doesn’t look much like the population it serves.

Also the Irish language barrier is not relevant, as if you’ve been through the school system here, you’ve learn it.

We could just look at how we could make people feel they could and should consider these careers.

Their careers both here and abroad will be more greatly advanced by high levels of English. 780 people took Polish as a LC exam in 2019 v over 22,000 doing French. Even German, the next biggest, is over 10 times this total. The biggest problem of all is the cost of employing teachers for such tiny numbers.

Flickerfusion

I think we have to view this with a bit of balance, particularly as Ireland’s is becoming more diverse. If there are barriers to entry. or some kind of issue with recruiting people then we need to look at it.

If it’s just a case of Ireland becoming more diverse quite rapidly and people of different backgrounds are only starting to appear in those kinds of organisations, then it could simply be a time lag.

However, it’s still important to monitor it and ensure we don’t have issues like that.

I know one of the things that surprises me quite a bit is that we don’t have Polish as a signifiant subject in schools. There’s a big population of Polish speakers here and surely some of them must have degrees in Polish and other subjects and could be recruited into teaching?

I mean it’s as significant a language as say Italian, yet I still just see Irish schools offering primarily French and some German and Spanish perhaps.

There have to be other language groups out there too, who should be brought into the education system. It’s an opportunity for the whole country in terms of multilingualism and having native speaker teachers.

I just can’t understand why we aren’t seeing more diversity or language amongst teachers.

You might rarely encounter a native French or German speaker in schools here, but you would really expect a lot more of it at this stage, which would seem to indicate there are significant barriers be they cultural or formal that are resulting in people not considering going into teaching. .

You have to look at that kind of thing across the whole public sector. If you don’t you can inadvertently end up with a whole public sector that doesn’t look much like the population it serves.

Also the Irish language barrier is not relevant, as if you’ve been through the school system here, you’ve learn it.

We could just look at how we could make people feel they could and should consider these careers.

kildare lad

Does leo not understand that our overly generous Welfare system makes it more attractive for people to sit on their hole having kids than it is to work . A lot of these people came over during a boom in this country and went straight on unemployment benefit , most of them couldn't work to warm themselves. That's why most employment here is very white except for taxi driving

thomas 123

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

A few have turned up.

Lol - it’s before wake up time.

Rodney Bathgate

suicide_circus wrote: »

There is a notable absence in this thread of posters who are usually very vocal about the scourge of racism, calling out racism etc.

A few have turned up, one spouting about the new storm front or some such.

thomas 123

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

That's private companies, big difference between that and the state enforcing a transparently racist policy. You can boycott a private company for being racist by not hiring white people on an equal basis but for the state to do it is altogether ridiculous.

Point being if it’s accepted privately the Government/policy makers will have no issue making it a public policy.

Lets be real any friction to this idea would be labeled racist and would not be given any platform from the start.

Strumms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

GazzaL wrote: »

I'd rather people were hired based on their ability and hard graft rather than some racist quota proposed by the Taoiseach and PBP. I couldn't care less about the colour of someone's skin, their nationality, etc.

Generations of Irish people emigrants never received handouts. They did well because they worked hard and grasped opportunities, and there were no quotas for them! There are lots of people who have moved to Ireland and are doing well for the same reasons, regardless of their skin colour or nationality.

As other people have said, it will evolve naturally over time, just like the integration of Irish emigrants in other countries evolved over time.

There are plenty of hard-working immigrants in Ireland that are probably insulted by the Taoiseach's racist quota proposal. We could end up with a situation where a Lithuanian person and a Latvian person apply for a civil service job and if the Lithuanian person is the best qualified for the job, they could be told "Sorry, you're the best person for the job, but we're looking for Latvian people to fill a quota". Insert any nationalities into that example, I just picked two at random.

I'm still amazed that he sets his sail in line with the lunatics on Twitter and de Facebuke luvvies. Both places are echo chambers for thickos and extremists, with Twitter being particularly toxic. It's not in anyway reflective of most ordinary people.

100%, especially twitter, it’s a fûcking cesspool of ‘cause fanatics’ ...

Always liked the saying.. “turn a deaf ear to those who shout the loudest, honest people don’t need to raise their voices”.

The tide needs to turn... there is a predicament now whereby thanks to our Taoiseach jumping into the sack with the extreme nut job element, me or anybody in a situation where being white and Irish perhaps going for a job are going to be at a disadvantage, from the get go.

I’ve been sat in a room with 4 other candidates, saying to myself.. “ ok, I’m reasonably happy that I have enough in my armor to get this job, I’ve a good cv, experience, excellent references, I can talk myself up in interviews, this job CAN be mine, I’m confident, let’s do this.”

Now I’m almost looking at this situation where being injected with a racism bug, I’m thinking... if a person walks into to the room, a non native Irish person, I’m probably pretty fûcked...I’m going to fall victim to a quota system. The country which I’ve been born in, worked in, paid my taxes in, all my life... is going to turn around and discriminate against me, because I’m Irish... I’m going to go in there, give the interview of my life, bamboozle them with facts, competencies, ambitions, examples of flexibility etc.. I don’t care if I’m beaten to the job by whomever from whatever background...if they deserve it on merit, good luck to them. Be they originally from Ballyhaunis, Bangladesh, Beiruit or Ballyfermot... all I want, all I believe I’m entitled to is a fair shot. Quotas, don’t give people fair shots, the opposite only, it’s discriminatory. It should be illegal although I’d like to see what the EU makes of that.

If there IS a quota system, NOBODY has a fair shot. In fact the very idea that Ireland would be a fair and safe place to live would be blown out of the water completely...

Enabling one cross section of society, to the detriment of others, who may be more deserving, is not fair, right or acceptable.

suicide_circus

There is a notable absence in this thread of posters who are usually very vocal about the scourge of racism, calling out racism etc.

anplaya27

thomas 123 wrote: »

You may not already know this but in a lot of multinationals in Ireland they already have inclusion policies in hiring, ie a candidate from a “minority” would be given preference over a candidate from the “majority”.

Wish these opportunities would trickle down into my 'minority' community, one which the government recently recognised as one of the most severely marginalised in Ireland and which research shows has 87pc unemployment.

ChelseaRentBoy

thomas 123 wrote: »

You may not already know this but in a lot of multinationals in Ireland they already have inclusion policies in hiring, ie a candidate from a “minority” would be given preference over a candidate from the “majority”.

That's private companies, big difference between that and the state enforcing a transparently racist policy. You can boycott a private company for being racist by not hiring white people on an equal basis but for the state to do it is altogether ridiculous.

Yurt2

GazzaL wrote: »

Generations of Irish people emigrants never received handouts. They did well because they worked hard and grasped opportunities, and there were no quotas for them! There are lots of people who have moved to Ireland and are doing well for the same reasons, regardless of their skin colour or nationality.

That's pretty ahistorical. To use New York as just one example, the Irish community in the 19th century and up until FDR's time, were massive beneficiaries of Tammany Hall poltics.

Even today, there's strong Irish-American patronage networks in New York that pass the ball between themselves in various industries and use politics to do it.

Ethnic politics in the US stinks. It's part of the reason it's such a fractured society. It's not something we should be introducing here.

thomas 123

GazzaL wrote: »

I'd rather people were hired based on their ability and hard graft rather than some racist quota proposed by the Taoiseach and PBP. I couldn't care less about the colour of someone's skin, their nationality, etc.

Generations of Irish people emigrants never received handouts. They did well because they worked hard and grasped opportunities, and there were no quotas for them! There are lots of people who have moved to Ireland and are doing well for the same reasons, regardless of their skin colour or nationality.

As other people have said, it will evolve naturally over time, just like the integration of Irish emigrants in other countries evolved over time.

There are plenty of hard-working immigrants in Ireland that are probably insulted by the Taoiseach's racist quota proposal. We could end up with a situation where a Lithuanian person and a Latvian person apply for a civil service job and if the Lithuanian person is the best qualified for the job, they could be told "Sorry, you're the best person for the job, but we're looking for Latvian people to fill a quota". Insert any nationalities into that example, I just picked two at random.

I'm still amazed that he sets his sail in line with the lunatics on Twitter and de Facebuke luvvies. Both places are echo chambers for thickos and extremists, with Twitter being particularly toxic. It's not in anyway reflective of most ordinary people.

You may not already know this but in a lot of multinationals in Ireland they already have inclusion policies in hiring, ie a candidate from a “minority” would be given preference over a candidate from the “majority”.

gibsmedat

Varadkar is a racist.

GazzaL

I'd rather people were hired based on their ability and hard graft rather than some racist quota proposed by the Taoiseach and PBP. I couldn't care less about the colour of someone's skin, their nationality, etc.

Generations of Irish people emigrants never received handouts. They did well because they worked hard and grasped opportunities, and there were no quotas for them! There are lots of people who have moved to Ireland and are doing well for the same reasons, regardless of their skin colour or nationality.

As other people have said, it will evolve naturally over time, just like the integration of Irish emigrants in other countries evolved over time.

There are plenty of hard-working immigrants in Ireland that are probably insulted by the Taoiseach's racist quota proposal. We could end up with a situation where a Lithuanian person and a Latvian person apply for a civil service job and if the Lithuanian person is the best qualified for the job, they could be told "Sorry, you're the best person for the job, but we're looking for Latvian people to fill a quota". Insert any nationalities into that example, I just picked two at random.

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hes fcuked it all away...hes a populist moron who thinks the majority of the population shares their opinion on social media...hes done for,thank god.

I'm still amazed that he sets his sail in line with the lunatics on Twitter and de Facebuke luvvies. Both places are echo chambers for thickos and extremists, with Twitter being particularly toxic. It's not in anyway reflective of most ordinary people.

[Deleted User]

Irish people getting tied up in this American shlt are complete and utter morons. I was predicting this importation of American issues ten years ago on this site.

ThunbergsAreGo

da_miser wrote: »

Back in my youth, Phil Lynott was not black , he was Irish.
Paul McGrath was not black, he was Irish and the best defender in the world.
So what has changed, i know its a outside force pushing this racism on Ireland, but the question is why?

Totally this "movement" in Ireland has the potential to become more divisive than inclusive, enforcing stereotypes on both sides and breeding resentment.

eprndrgst

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Not only is he white, he is ginger.

Double whammy!! ðŸ€£ðŸ€£ðŸ€£

ThunbergsAreGo

Woodsie1 wrote: »

Hes fcuked it all away...hes a populist moron who thinks the majority of the population shares their opinion on social media...hes done for,thank god.

Pretty much my own thoughts as well. Government by Twitter Poll and he will still be portrayed as a right wing tory by the left. There are no sane centerists parties, its varying degrees of left or very very right.

The thing about this is it will change naturally over the next few years as other ethnicities have children grow up in Ireland, who are educated by the Irish system, and enter the Civil service. Its not something that needs to be pushed (or afraid of).

punisher5112

If they get their way and bring in another million or more we will eventually be eradicated....

Cheap labour is where it really lies.
They want all these coming in for direct provision as they need to keep their palls happy and some of themselves as they bought hotels and such to avail of the huge payouts for housing them using these services.

Madness when you do hear ones on giving out about conditions and how terrible us Irish treat them and they're there like 10 years maybe even more..... Hold on a minute why in all that is as holy as a rat's a#s is this even allowed carry on where they stay for all these years.

If your asylum is rejected then back you go but no not how it works here......

We are been seriously played here and we are been made absolute mugs out of.

da_miser

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Plenty of Irish people went overseas and had children with non-white people. Some of those children have chosen to come here, as their citizenship entitles them to.
.....non-white children who were born here, who go through the education system with no role models who look like them, or understand their cultural background. s.

So white Irish women go abroad,
get knocked up by Black, Brown ,Yellow men
These men disappear and leave the white Irish women with the children,
When the White Irish women come home with their babies,
White Irish folk are to blame for all the problems that these children face?
Well i ask one simple question, "Where is the father?"
Could all the child's problems be solved by having a father in their life?
Why blame racism, when the children have no father in their life?
Why is lack of father not a issue?
Why blame racism when obvious reason is lack of father for child going off the rails?

da_miser

Strumms wrote: »

Haha, I’ve a whole issue with that term, ‘minority group’... whom if anyone judges or qualifies someone as ‘belonging’ to a ‘minority group’ ?

I’ve lived for a time outside of Ireland. I never viewed myself or related my situation to anyone there that I belong to a ‘minority group’..

I went to work and I got a job with a European Government Agency based on ability, experience, aptitude etc... when I went for promotion I never threw off an email claiming “hey, don’t see too many of us Irish getting a ‘leg up’, I think I’m entitled... I simply recognized that those promoted ahead were more deserving and suitable candidates..they organization put its needs and those of who it serves front and center.

Ireland needs to be doing that, putting the needs of Irish people, all of it’s citizens front and center.

White privilege in action, 100% no doubt about it!